How relic should have been....

The method for obtaining regular relic weapons is fine as is.



ilvl 95 +1 relic should have been obtained by an item dropped by twintania.


ilvl 90 allagan should have been myth tome gear.



It just doesn't make sense that the most epic looking weapons should become obsolete. Allagan looks just like any common dungeon gear...

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Originally Posted by Nofacekiller

The method for obtaining regular relic weapons is fine as is.



ilvl 95 +1 relic should have been obtained by an item dropped by twintania.


ilvl 90 allagan should have been myth tome gear.



It just doesn't make sense that the most epic looking weapons should become obsolete. Allagan looks just like any common dungeon gear...

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Even better-
Allagan should have just been an item to upgrade to +2 relic...

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ilvl 95 +1 relic should have been obtained by an item dropped by twintania.

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Relic +1 is ilvl 90, not 95. There *will* be further upgrades to the relic weapons in the future.

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ilvl 90 allagan should have been myth tome gear.

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What is this i dont even... ? No, level 90 allagan should be level 90 allagan, like it already is. In all actality, I realize yo are talking about the weapons specifically.

Why do you think the relic weapons should be better than the allagan when the allagan is harder to get?

Like I said, this isnt the end of the line for relic weapons, they will get upgrades. But considering how many people ALREADY HAVE relic weapons, it makes more sense to do what they're already going to do because the relic weapons are common while the allagan weapons are not. I'm sure the relic upgrades will be tougher and reward lv95 or 100 versions.

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It just doesn't make sense that the most epic looking weapons should become obsolete.

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Again, they aren't going obsolete, there will be upgrades in the future. But common weapons that everyone already has shouldn't be the best. You could say they dropped the ball in them being easier than SE throught they were, but what would be the point in turn 5 dropping weapons at all when you consider the fact that you need relic weapons to be competitive in that turn, if the allagan weapons weren't an upgrade?

TL;DR: Boohoo, someone complaining that better gear becomes avialable over time in an MMO...

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Relic +1 is ilvl 90, not 95. There *will* be further upgrades to the relic weapons in the future.

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"should have been"

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

stuff

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You're missing the whole point of what I said. I'm saying how things SHOULD have been from the START. Obviously they can't make allagan inferior to relic +1 now that it's allagan that drops from twintania.

Relic weapons should have been harder to obtain. In FFXI it took like a 6months to a year+ to make one (unless you bought Gil).

I really hope SE adds a Mythic Weapon Version to FFXIV but call them Legendary Weapons. And for anyone who doesn't know what those are
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Ca...Mythic_Weapons
I was pretty close to finishing Tizona....... That's what this game needs. I think it would help with the "Lack of Content".

Our Relic Weapons in FFXIV are pretty much the same as a Empyrean Weapon in FFXI.
So there may be some hope.

Relics should have been obtainable on Ifrit extreme and then up-gradable through coil

AF2 should have been an endgame of its own obtaining items to upgrade your AF stuff similar to limbus in FFXI

Allagan should have been Hard mode dungeon gear reward

I dunno my 2cent

they should just up grade relics again, but give us stuff that involves more then just running a dungeon a few times that all you pertty much did .

Well this isn't FFXI. So what happened in FFXI, how long it took to obtain things in FFXI dont apply. Why?

Because it isn't FFXI!

People keep saying it took this and that to obtain AF, relic gear in FFXI need to get out of that mindset. FFXIV is a different game, with a different design and a different playstyle.

So until people realise that they aren't playing FFXI the better, maybe then they wont worry so much and just play the game for what it is.

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Originally Posted by Arkista

Relic weapons should have been harder to obtain. In FFXI it took like a 6months to a year+ to make one (unless you bought Gil).

I really hope SE adds a Mythic Weapon Version to FFXIV but call them Legendary Weapons. And for anyone who doesn't know what those are
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Ca...Mythic_Weapons
I was pretty close to finishing Tizona....... That's what this game needs. I think it would help with the "Lack of Content".

Our Relic Weapons in FFXIV are pretty much the same as a Empyrean Weapon in FFXI.
So there may be some hope.

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I guarantee you no weapon will take 6 months to a year to aquire. Ever.

It's all about a name apparently. Had SE named the damn allagan weapon "relic" no one would be bitching. Who cares what the name of the best weapon is honestly. Who cares if you upgrade your "relic +1" for a plus 2? Either way your upgrading your weapon...whether it's from T5 or this hypothetical relic +2.

Apparently a name is worth more to some.

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Originally Posted by Reslin

I guarantee you no weapon will take 6 months to a year to aquire. Ever.

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Perhaps, but would it really hurt if there were weapons that took an incredible amount of time to get? We need some actual long-term goals in this game, and I would argue that a quest line that takes roughly 6 months to a year would very much be welcome. I would love to see some actual - epic - pieces of gear, that take some real time to get. It doesn't mean that you HAVE to get these weapons, but it should greatly pay off for those who do get them. Not everyone has to have the ability to get a certain piece of gear, and that's okay.

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Originally Posted by Nofacekiller

You're missing the whole point of what I said. I'm saying how things SHOULD have been from the START. Obviously they can't make allagan inferior to relic +1 now that it's allagan that drops from twintania.

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I would disagree that it SHOULD have been that way from the start. Dungeons should have drops, not flags for upgrades to stuff you already have.

Discussing what should have been is pointless anyway- coulda, shoulda, woulda. You're basically just complaining that for some period of time you don't have hte best weapon in the game, despite it being easy to get.

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Apparently a name is worth more to some.

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No, it's because it glows! Shiny loot must be best loot!

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Originally Posted by Pride

Perhaps, but would it really hurt if there were weapons that took an incredible amount of time to get? We need some actual long-term goals in this game, and I would argue that a quest line that takes roughly 6 months to a year would very much be welcome. I would love to see some actual - epic - pieces of gear, that take some real time to get. It doesn't mean that you HAVE to get these weapons, but it should greatly pay off for those who do get them. Not everyone has to have the ability to get a certain piece of gear, and that's okay.

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The game has aimed at casuals. The entire design of the game is that eventually everyone can achieve the same net result in time. The only way you can make an item require 6+ months is by turning it into a grind. In which case it's not difficult to obtain but just available for someone who puts in the time. Grind does not mean skill.

The only thing that should bar someone from getting a certain weapon is skill involved. Ala Coils. The best weapon is dropped from coils and not everyone has the skill necessary to receive this weapon. In time coils will be nerfed as harder content is introduced allowing others a chance to acquire the weapon. A 6 months grind just to get one weapon doesn't belong in 14 or modern mmorpgs. That kind of grind existed in the past.

By the way "Not everyone has to have the ability to get a certain piece of gear." Not arguing that. It already exists. It's called turn 5 coils which not everyone can do.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

No, it's because it glows! Shiny loot must be best loot!

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Oooo sparkles...must turn away...oooo they glow!

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Well this isn't FFXI. So what happened in FFXI, how long it took to obtain things in FFXI dont apply. Why?

Because it isn't FFXI!

People keep saying it took this and that to obtain AF, relic gear in FFXI need to get out of that mindset. FFXIV is a different game, with a different design and a different playstyle.

So until people realise that they aren't playing FFXI the better, maybe then they wont worry so much and just play the game for what it is.

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well there doing it here in the CT where you get one piece of gear a week. SE thinks its a good idea even though you dont.

Here comes the white knights

Actually... They should be like this

Check these out
http://ffxivrealm.com/threads/multip...haracter.6876/

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Originally Posted by OrionInerghem

Actually... They should be like this

Check these out
http://ffxivrealm.com/threads/multip...haracter.6876/

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I had many lulz clicking on this link, mostly from the old relic stats.

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Originally Posted by Thunderz

Here comes the white knights

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Here comes the Crystal Knights?

This isn't white knighting. There is no point in either defending or attacking what has already happened. We can't change the past, and the posters are not offering any feedback on what to do in the future (other than the implied argument of "make relic weapons always the best, I already got them therefore nothing else can be as good!")

Also white knighting refers to blindly defending something with no good reason. Defending something and offering good reasonable arguments for your position is not white knighting. The thought that people aren't allowed to back up something that one feels is not broken and with good reasons is ludicrous. Such people don't deserve to be branded in a negative manner.

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Originally Posted by Reslin

The game has aimed at casuals. The entire design of the game is that eventually everyone can achieve the same net result in time. The only way you can make an item require 6+ months is by turning it into a grind. In which case it's not difficult to obtain but just available for someone who puts in the time. Grind does not mean skill.


By the way "Not everyone has to have the ability to get a certain piece of gear." Not arguing that. It already exists. It's called turn 5 coils which not everyone can do.

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I agree, to an extent. I would love to see an extremely long quest chain, that requires both skill and a grind. When people hear that a weapon will take 6 months to get, they automatically assume it's going to be a grind and that no skill will be involved at all. This is not true.

I want an epic quest chain that requires an absurd amount of grinding, and skill based pieces. Why can't we have to collect 99 of x-resource and get a crafting component drop from say Twintania? You can incorporate both, and something that is extremely powerful should require both, skill and perseverance (Grind).

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Originally Posted by Pride

I agree, to an extent. I would love to see an extremely long quest chain, that requires both skill and a grind. When people hear that a weapon will take 6 months to get, they automatically assume it's going to be a grind and that no skill will be involved at all. This is not true.

I want an epic quest chain that requires an absurd amount of grinding, and skill based pieces. Why can't we have to collect 99 of x-resource and get a crafting component drop from say Twintania? You can incorporate both, and something that is extremely powerful should require both, skill and perseverance (Grind).

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No thanks. I'd rather stuff like that stay out of 14. Old school grinds belong with the dinosaurs. Personally I like the idea that the only time sinks are challenging content that remain time sinks until someone figures out how to beat them. It's been 4 months and not everyone has an allagan weapon due to the difficulty involved. That's how you design content.

Keep the two separate. Maybe have a weapon that is amazing but requires a few months of grinding but it shouldn't be the absolute best. An equal weapon then drops from a boss that's the hardest boss in the game. One would be guaranteed to get with a lot of time involved whereas the other one is quicker.. assuming you're good enough.

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Originally Posted by Reslin

I guarantee you no weapon will take 6 months to a year to aquire. Ever.

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Thank god.

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Originally Posted by Arkista

Relic weapons should have been harder to obtain. In FFXI it took like a 6months to a year+ to make one (unless you bought Gil).

I really hope SE adds a Mythic Weapon Version to FFXIV but call them Legendary Weapons. And for anyone who doesn't know what those are
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Ca...Mythic_Weapons
I was pretty close to finishing Tizona....... That's what this game needs. I think it would help with the "Lack of Content".

Our Relic Weapons in FFXIV are pretty much the same as a Empyrean Weapon in FFXI.
So there may be some hope.

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Why? So we can hear you complain about farming 30k tomes in 1 of 4 dungeons? Or some new currency that only drops in 1?

Because Alex only dropped in 4 dungeons too....unless you were a new schooler in which case just stop.

And this coming from a Burtgang owner, so yes, I know the sheer gutwrenching pain of it.

edit: SE have kinda shot themselves in the foot with the whole relic thing in XIV. They're basically setting themselves up for a FFXI incident with relics. People see "relic" and automatically think 1 of 2 things. "XI relics!!!" or "difficult Quested weapon that I can only start AFTER the story? MUST BE THE BEST!!!" Both parties (players and SE) are to blame. Assumption and omission.

If they are foolish enough to bring back this sort of content I hope they at least have the foresight to ensure that the currency/items involved cannot be traded. No one wants the days back of and entire team(group of rubes) grinding out currency so one single person in your FC/LS can get a shiny new weapon.

It's nice to be able to work towards bettering your own character and not just whatever trash the FC officers decide you can have after slaving for months/years...never forget the dark times people.

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Originally Posted by Pinworms

It's all about a name apparently. Had SE named the damn allagan weapon "relic" no one would be bitching. Who cares what the name of the best weapon is honestly. Who cares if you upgrade your "relic +1" for a plus 2? Either way your upgrading your weapon...whether it's from T5 or this hypothetical relic +2.

Apparently a name is worth more to some.

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This is exactly what I think when I read these posts. All I think when i see gear: "Oh that looks cool" or "hmm that's pretty good," not "OMG NEW GEAR, IS IT ALLAGAN? IS IT A NEW AF? IS IT RELIC? IS IT (blah blah blah)...

But quite honestly It would make sense to get allagan gear from trading allagan tomestones. That I can totally agree with. but just receiving relic weapon over and over but just more shiny would be boring as hell.

I am not too happy with the way the gear/weapon system is currently but it is okay.
I do not think that the best weapon in the game should be obtained through luck on a Loot Roll personally. I know that you have to beat Twintania to have even a chance of rolling on it but damn...You could beat Twintania over and over and over and never get the weapon....that is pretty crappy, also a ton of time with the Lock out on Coil.
It should be that RELIC is always the best weapon and I think the system they have made is pretty decent...just should have been a little longer and more involved. Now the +1 should have been more than grinding the 900 Myth (3 weeks of no skill to get). The AF+1 Gear should have also been a long Quest Chain mixed with some grinding to make it more interesting than just a dungeon grind as well.

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Originally Posted by Arcturius

This is exactly what I think when I read these posts. All I think when i see gear: "Oh that looks cool" or "hmm that's pretty good," not "OMG NEW GEAR, IS IT ALLAGAN? IS IT A NEW AF? IS IT RELIC? IS IT (blah blah blah)...

But quite honestly It would make sense to get allagan gear from trading allagan tomestones. That I can totally agree with. but just receiving relic weapon over and over but just more shiny would be boring as hell.

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I agree.

The elitists will always insist that something they got should be next to impossible to get for any player who has a life outside of a basement. However I have my Relic, I played the story, I enjoyed the game and still enjoy the game helping friends, and I don't have to set foot in Coil to enjoy it. And i even MORE enjoy seeing others get their Relic, also. It's a great reward for finishing the story-line, regardless of if they transition to raiding or not.

I love that casual players can still get an endgame reward that is easy to work toward without spending half their life at the keyboard. SE will add harder and harder content, and folks will cry that it is "impossible to get" . . . and then some elitist will get it, then troll these forums saying that it was "too easy to get" and compare the experience to some endless grind they did in some other MMO.

It's just a weapon . . . it's only 1 item . . . and you guys have Coil with a ton more stuff in it to drop and grind for . . . let the casuals have something pretty looking on their back. Just completing the main story has it's perks as well, an so does leveling a character. A Relic shows for that effort without having to be in an elitist raiding guild to do it.

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Originally Posted by Pinworms

It's all about a name apparently. Had SE named the damn allagan weapon "relic" no one would be bitching. Who cares what the name of the best weapon is honestly. Who cares if you upgrade your "relic +1" for a plus 2? Either way your upgrading your weapon...whether it's from T5 or this hypothetical relic +2.

Apparently a name is worth more to some.

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That is what Final Fantasy is all about. You want to be able to solo behemoth, or have primals be a regular mob wandering around for anyone to walk up and kill in a couple of hits? Imagine if there was Bahamut and he was just a regular ol EXP mob. Well..its just a name right???

Relics in FF history have always been hard or time consuming to get. In FFX getting Lulu's was super hard haha you had to dodge 200 lighting strikes. It is just kind of insulting to the name yes...a name that has what..over 20 years of history? It is like a slap in the face to the meaning behind the FF series.

I have all relic, they are about as standard as the WSNM from FFXI, something you're expected to have to do good DPS.

What people are asking for is a true relic line where after working hard you get a weapon that's truly unique. The only way this system can work is if the process is so tough that the weapons stay pretty rare. And only the most focused and dedicated can do it. Currently there's nothing like that in XIV nor is it planned to be


I don't think they'll ever do it though

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Originally Posted by OrionInerghem

I have all relic, they are about as standard as the WSNM from FFXI, something you're expected to have to do good DPS.

What people are asking for is a true relic line where after working hard you get a weapon that's truly unique. The only way this system can work is if the process is so tough that the weapons stay pretty rare. And only the most focused and dedicated can do it. Currently there's nothing like that in XIV nor is it planned to be


I don't think they'll ever do it though

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I can agree with that much. It's good to have options for the grinders and options for the casuals.

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Originally Posted by Babydoll

That is what Final Fantasy is all about. You want to be able to solo behemoth, or have primals be a regular mob wandering around for anyone to walk up and kill in a couple of hits? Imagine if there was Bahamut and he was just a regular ol EXP mob. Well..its just a name right???

Relics in FF history have always been hard or time consuming to get. In FFX getting Lulu's was super hard haha you had to dodge 200 lighting strikes. It is just kind of insulting to the name yes...a name that has what..over 20 years of history? It is like a slap in the face to the meaning behind the FF series.

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If the name is what is bothering people, I could care less what my weapon is called, as long as they don't take it away. :)

I wouldn't mind seeing a way to upgrade the relic +1 to be competitive with the ilvl 95 allagan. Some of them are just terribly itemized, the allagan WAR axe being the prime example.

Easiest way to do it would be to make you obtain your allagan weapon and sacrifice it to upgrade your relic to ilvl 95. This way, people have a choice instead of feeling subpar because their "best" weapon has crap for stats on it.

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Originally Posted by Babydoll

That is what Final Fantasy is all about. You want to be able to solo behemoth, or have primals be a regular mob wandering around for anyone to walk up and kill in a couple of hits? Imagine if there was Bahamut and he was just a regular ol EXP mob. Well..its just a name right???

Relics in FF history have always been hard or time consuming to get. In FFX getting Lulu's was super hard haha you had to dodge 200 lighting strikes. It is just kind of insulting to the name yes...a name that has what..over 20 years of history? It is like a slap in the face to the meaning behind the FF series.

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Subjective. I got lulu's weapon in a single afternoon. It took me two hours to get it down. It took me a lot longer to find a group capable of doing titan for my relic weapon. About two weeks in fact. I guess you're asking for relic weapons to be even easier then?