Too Few Padjal - Source?

Whenever the topic of new races comes up, I always see someone post the suggestion of introducing Padjal as a playable race.

I've read on the Final Fantasy Wiki and have told people that Padjal as a playable race can't happen because there's not enough of them in existence to justify them being a playable race.

However, the FF wiki doesn't cite a source for their claim. Is there a dev post about this that I haven't found yet or quest text somewhere in the game that I missed that talks about this?

Well, for starters, Padjal aren't a race per se. They're Hyuran when they're born, except they remain children and grow horns as part of the forest's blessing. Padjali are kind of a secondary race. This transformation from Hyur to Padjal is what is extremely rare. The elementals of the Twelveswood choose people to be Padjal. Rarely. And only from among those in the forest. And [usually?] only Hyurs. And only when they're children. They say never say never, but Padjal in the character creator? I'm sayin' never.

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Originally Posted by Wispily Bearded Woodworker (1.0)

In Gridania, there are those blessed by the forest. They are known as the Padjal. the touch of the elementals causes horns to sprout from their heads. They are ageless children, fluent in the tongue of the forest.

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Originally Posted by Raya-O-Senna

Ages passed, until five centuries ago, the elementals at long last welcomed people back into the forest. So the nation of Gridania was founded, and my people─the Padjal─came into being, to serve as mediators between elementals and those who would reside in their forest home. It is from the elementals themselves that we inherited white magic.

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They are too rare, but I wouldn't be surprised that in a new expansion they can make a bs excuse of the elementals being so happy they they blessed many people and became less strict.

Moose has it, though the jury is out on whether the original owner of Thyrus is an Elf or not. If she is, then it seem to be further evidence that The Padjal are not a race - they are chosen.

I'm left to remember the case of the Archer quest line. It is implied that the Wildwood tend to be the strictest on tradition in Gridania. This would fit with the fact that the timeline seems to indicate that the Elezen were always on Eorzea. The Hyur migrated in several waves sometime around the 4th or 5th astral era (someone check me on this). The Miqo's are the most recent arrivals, migrating during the ice age that was the 6th umbral era (again, correct me if I'm wrong). That Padjal would be exclusively seems unlikely given the Elezen's long history in the region. Though there is the one Padjal that seems like he could be a Duskwight Elezen, odd since the majority of Duskwight are outcasts that spurn living in an above-ground city, there are certainly none that show any hint of being Miqo'te.

Isn't Gridania ruled by The Padjal, of which Kan-e-Senna is the most senior? This would seem to indicate that children born Padjal are extremely rare.

Because it would make the WHM questline as hilarious as the Archer.

Also Lalas or Roe are the most recent arrivals both having come with the advent of naval trade.. well Naval trade for one.. piracy for the other.

Well, this thread in the old 1.0 forum went into some detail on the subject, particularly some info given by none other than Ferne (it was about how padjal are named, but he also revealed exactly how padjal come to be). Unfortunately I can't directly quote Ferne's informative post from it directly, due to the old 1.0 forum being archived, but I'll try and copy and paste it here.

EDIT: here is Ferne's post from the above thread - http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post983986 :

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Originally Posted by Fernehalwes

Hello all,

Allow me take a few moments to shed a little light on the naming conventions used for Padjals.

First off, the language that the names are based off of is that of the Ainu peoples, indigenous to northern Japan.

Here are a few real-world examples of that language:

sir e-tok : the edge of the world
nupe : tears
pon : small
wakka : clear water

We aren't using that language as-is, but have tried to create something unique based off the spellings, sounds, syllable count, and overall feel of the words.

Here are the rules for the names:

1. All are comprised of three words.

2. The first two are the forename, and the final word is the surname.

3. The first name is constructed of simple vowel-based word (E, Ae, Uo, I, Ea, etc.) combined with a longer companion word. In the case of males, the vowel-based word comes first. In the case of females, it comes second.

Male:
E-Sumi-Yan
O-App-Pesi

Female:
Kan-E-Senna
Raya-O-Senna

4. Words in the Padjal language are normally separated by spaces. However, when a group of words forms a single concept (such as a proper noun, or a compound word), they are connected with hyphens.

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In addition to NPC names, the ancient language can be seen used in names of sacred locations around the Twelveswood. If a name is Padjali, you can assume that the location has been there for a long time.

Place names:
The Thousand Maws of Toto-Rak (a beast from Padjali mythology)
Tam-Tara Deepcroft

Enemy names:
Ak-Inik varlet -> servant of the Inik house
Ak-Mena varlet -> servant of the Mena house (Ak being the honorific prefix attached to a deceased member of a house)

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There was also a question about how a Padjal gets their name (considering they start off as Hyur).

There are several old Hyur families in Gridania which consistently (albeit rarely) produce Padjals. Those include the Senna, the Yan, and the Pesi families. (Note the family names still possess the Padjali linguistic roots).

When a baby is born to one of these families, he or she is given a "normal" Hyur name, as is the custom (i.e. Bryce Senna).

When it is learned that the child is a Padjal, they are given a new first name based off the ancient Padjali tongue, and accepted into Stillglade Fane for their indoctrination.

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Hope that clears things up a bit!

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So basically, this seems to suggest that even though any hyur could potentially become a padjal, certain families seem to be more predestined towards such a fate - it definitely gives credit to the idea that padjal are indeed rare if only a few specific families seem to produce them consistently. Or maybe I'm just flapping my gums here. :p

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Originally Posted by Saikou

Moose has it, though the jury is out on whether the original owner of Thyrus is an Elf or not.

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It was A-Towa-Cant, right?
I thought ATC was odd looking when I played through, thinking he was a strange skin colour but never considered race. Now looking back I think human:
http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o...ps1e388cb3.png

The ears look like that of Padjal E-Sumi-Yan from the CNJ guild. The resemblance isn't too far off if you ask me!

I don't think A-towa's skin colour is really representative of his race though, or

even accurate for how he is really meant to be, given the fact he has actually been dead for centuries, and is now just a spirit inhabiting the WHM Soul Crystal.

I presume the more pointy ears are just another change that occurs to them when they become padjal though (as horns also grow from their heads it's not too big a stretch to think that their ears could become more pointy too for that matter. ;)). Remember that Ferne himself stated that only hyur become padjal and not elezen, so yeah, the pointy ears are not proof of elezen ancestry.

I really don't think he's elezen either, all his "elfish" features are really the padjali ones + as Enkidoh said being "a little" dead doesn't help.

But returning to the OP, if they made them a playable race I'd probably throws tomatoes at them. The lore already makes you feel wrong and incredibly unique for being a white mage without being a padjal, and you see a load of white mage players around you, in game...can you imagine the same with the race?

Can't remember which quest but the Padjal are also predominantly from a few bloodlines. "Senna" is one of them.

I would imagine that, on top of the rarity of the race, another issue with making them playable is the responsibilities they have. A key aspect of our characters is their freedom to go where and when they choose. Padjal don't really have this freedom from what I've seen.

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Originally Posted by Urthdigger

...another issue with making them playable is the responsibilities they have. A key aspect of our characters is their freedom to go where and when they choose. Padjal don't really have this freedom from what I've seen.

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Not necessarily--the Padjal aren't entirely bound to the Twelveswood, as we see from Kan-E's traveling to Ul'dah for "The Black Wolf's Ultimatum" and the history of A-Towa-Cant, who traversed Eorzea in search of Elementals. Both are pretty special cases, though, since one is the Elder Seedseer and is supposed to be diplomatic, and the other, who, according to Gerolt, was very unorthodox in leaving the Twelveswood. But for the more traditional "stay in the Twelveswood" Padjal like E-Sumi and the other two Senna siblings, yes, they choose to stay there, probably because the Elementals are in the strongest concentration there.

I don't think it'd be possible for Padjal to be a playable race. If they were, they'd have to fight stuff all the time...and that's against the Pact of Gelmorra, which is like a treaty of pacifism for the Padjal--they aren't allowed to fight like adventurers can.

Maybe im wrong, but wasnt it mentioned that one of the genders of one of the five races were also in short supply. If so how is that explained if there are alot of people running around as such? so I dont think it would be so farfetched as to have adventurers chosen by the Twelvsewood to be Padjali.

The "limited" amount of female Roegadyn and Highlanders, as well as male Miqo'te has been slightly retconned with the advent of ARR.. So that is not exactly the same.

Anyway.. As can be seen from several tidbits mentioned by others, the lack of numbers is not the only thing speaking against the Padjali becoming a playable race.

The lack of gender representation in some races (thankfully remedied!) was down to a cultural thing. The Padjal are pretty clearly a hyuran genetic mutation, understandably rare.

Funny though. The Galka race in FFXI (on which Roegadyn were based) appeared male-only, but were in fact asexual. They didn't reproduce but always had the same numbers thanks to reincarnation. Interestingly, you'd have young Galka that still retained knowledge of previous lives, leading to Padjal-ish situations where an apparent kid knows more than your grandma.

How can people even talk about being "chosen" in this game? From a lore standpoint, which one of us was the one who brought down Ifrit? Surely it couldn't have been all million people playing the game! I mean, in the story, there is only one Ifrit, and he was only a threat once (for simplicity sake, going with story mode). It could be just as conceivable that lots of people are "chosen" to become padjal if the times called for it. But my theory is a little more blunt:

I think the idea of a blood-soaked axe-wielding MRD padjal just seems dumb, given their nature (regardless of prior race).

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Originally Posted by Mahri

The lack of gender representation in some races (thankfully remedied!) was down to a cultural thing. The Padjal are pretty clearly a hyuran genetic mutation, understandably rare.

Funny though. The Galka race in FFXI (on which Roegadyn were based) appeared male-only, but were in fact asexual. They didn't reproduce but always had the same numbers thanks to reincarnation. Interestingly, you'd have young Galka that still retained knowledge of previous lives, leading to Padjal-ish situations where an apparent kid knows more than your grandma.

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I believe they were actually male, but impotent. Also, they had to go on a journey to the desert to reincarnate, it's quite possible those who die violent deaths are a permanent reduction in numbers. Kinda sad really.

If Padjals are "ageless children", then surely Kann-E-Senna grows to adult for the purpose of being in that GC photoframe

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Originally Posted by Raestloz

If Padjals are "ageless children", then surely Kann-E-Senna grows to adult for the purpose of being in that GC photoframe

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They do age to a certain point then stop. The process seems random. Some stop earlier then others.

Yes, it's said that the padjal stop aging when they're 'chosen' by the elementals and are transformed into a padjal, so it's likely that this can happen at any time in a padjal's childhood while they're still a hyur, even in early puberty, which is probably the reason why Kan-E-Senna looks a little older than the other padjal, but still very much physically undeveloped - she was just 'chosen' by the elementals a little later in her life.

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Originally Posted by Raestloz

If Padjals are "ageless children", then surely Kann-E-Senna grows to adult for the purpose of being in that GC photoframe

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Are you sure you're not thinking of Nophica? There was some controversy a while ago about a picture people thought was Kan-E-Senna with ... how do I say ... fully developed breasts, but it was actually the Goddess Nophica and not the Padjal, Kan-E-Senna.

I think this is the "GC photo frame" being referred to:

http://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/t/638...428c5c2_11.png

And given her bust size is not visible, the point is moot.

Maybe he confused her with the Admiral?

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Originally Posted by Rocl

Are you sure you're not thinking of Nophica? There was some controversy a while ago about a picture people thought was Kan-E-Senna with ... how do I say ... fully developed breasts, but it was actually the Goddess Nophica and not the Padjal, Kan-E-Senna.

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I don't even know what Nophica looks like. All that I know is Kann-E is far too tall for an "ageless child". I can tell that Raya-O is a "child", but Kann-E is pretty much almost 1.5x her height. She doesn't look like a child in any way.

Now, Nanamo, on the other hand...

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Originally Posted by Raestloz

I don't even know what Nophica looks like. All that I know is Kann-E is far too tall for an "ageless child". I can tell that Raya-O is a "child", but Kann-E is pretty much almost 1.5x her height. She doesn't look like a child in any way.

Now, Nanamo, on the other hand...

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You grow up a lot in your teen years. Kann-E-Senna is probably physically between 16 and 20, developmentally. So she'd easily be taller than Raya-O-Senna, even half again as tall.

Nanamo is, of course, physically mature.

I'd say that it has never occurred to me that Kann-E is physically a "child". She looks like a young woman to me, actually. After all, she stands out as the most physically mature of the known padjal. E-Sumi-Yan might arguably be wiser in some respects, but he clearly looks like a boy to me.

I'm not sure if that's because I'm East Asian and therefore look for different cues of physical maturity. I've seen comments, for example, of how female miqo'te look like teenage girls and, again, that had not previously occurred to me before.

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Originally Posted by Raestloz

I don't even know what Nophica looks like. All that I know is Kann-E is far too tall for an "ageless child". I can tell that Raya-O is a "child", but Kann-E is pretty much almost 1.5x her height. She doesn't look like a child in any way.

Now, Nanamo, on the other hand...

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Rocl was referring to this image (warning, large image on the way so spoilered):

http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...der_poster.jpg

I admit I was in the 'thought that image was a stylized depiction of Kan-E-Senna' camp too at first when I saw that image for the first time in 2011 - mostly because it didn't look anything like how Nophica was described as appearance wise ('jubilant farmer holding a steel scythe?' Riiiight...). :p But thinking about it, it does make sense (incidentally that very image is actually used in-game in ARR - it's plastered all over the walls near the gate into Hyrstmill in the North Shroud.).

A bit off-topic, but in relation to that image, do we have visuals for any of the others of the Twelve? I'd never seen that before!

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...der_poster.jpg

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Eh... I don't see how that could possibly have been mistaken for Kan-E (where are the horns?). And neither do I think she represents Nophica. I remember seeing it as concept or promotional art, and I've always thought of the figure as the personification of Gridania, or at least of her people (like how France is sometimes symbolised as a woman). She wields the lance and the bow, the primary weapons of the Wailers and the Gods' Quivers respectively. And she stands before the standard of the Twin Adders. If nothing else, it looks very much like a recruitment poster to me. Much like the posters of Uncle Sam saying he wants you (to join the Army).

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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

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The leafy crown thing kind of looks like Kan-E-Senna's horns. It does have that recruitment poster feel. The weapons of the two halves of the Twin Adders, the standard of the Grand Company, the abundant bounty and natural setting.

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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

I'd say that it has never occurred to me that Kann-E is physically a "child". She looks like a young woman to me, actually. After all, she stands out as the most physically mature of the known padjal. E-Sumi-Yan might arguably be wiser in some respects, but he clearly looks like a boy to me.

I'm not sure if that's because I'm East Asian and therefore look for different cues of physical maturity. I've seen comments, for example, of how female miqo'te look like teenage girls and, again, that had not previously occurred to me before.

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Kan-E looks like she could be anywhere from a mature 15 to... upper 20s, really. And the somewhat deep and powerful, vibrant timbre of her voice, at least in the English voiced scenes, gives her an apparent age of vigorous, energetic maturity.

I still picked the Immortal Flames for my Grand Company though :)

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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

And neither do I think she represents Nophica

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I probably won't put too much thought into it and find the source, but I am incredibly nearly certain that it was outright stated to be Nophica. It was surprising because we haven't seen any of the Twelve pictured before. Obviously it's a bit of propaganda inspiring those devotees of Nophica (i.e. Gridanians) to join the Grand Company.

It's your lucky day I figured out how to search forums!:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ica#post386119

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Originally Posted by Wadoka

Kan-E looks like she could be anywhere from a mature 15 to... upper 20s, really. And the somewhat deep and powerful, vibrant timbre of her voice, at least in the English voiced scenes, gives her an apparent age of vigorous, energetic maturity.

I still picked the Immortal Flames for my Grand Company though :)

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Pfffft, still using NA VA

JP 4Lyfe

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Originally Posted by Raestloz

Pfffft, still using NA VA

JP 4Lyfe

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lol, my opinion* of Japanese voice actors is either gangster sumo wrestler (male) or Gilbert Gottfried was kicked in the balls after sucking helium (female). I just call it how I hear it XD






*disclaimer