Scared to tank lvl 50 dungeons

Leveled up all the magic classes and next leveled a warrior for fun and a change of perspective. He's in full hoplite (from my healing runs) save a ring and a bracer, lvl 90 belt and lvl 70 ring. Darklight weapon

What I'm worried about is queuing in the DF and getting put with people that have relic or relic +1 and not being able to keep up with their damage.

Is this a legitimate worry or should I just go in and if the dps don't learn to control aggro, let them die?

I am a warrior in full DL but without relic weapon. In general, I can keep ahead of the dps with relic+1.
If you use overpower/flash a couple of times and then start your rotation, also rotating through the mobs, it should be fine. Ofcourse you will have to work a little bit harder to keep ahead.

Only problem is that when you mark the mob and the relic dps start going all out on other, different mobs. But then it is not a problem of them having the relic...

Sure, some people will inspect you and immediately leave, yet that's THEIR problem (**not yours**). You don't need to concern yourself with these people ... and they're not the majority of the playerbase either. There's plenty of patient players out there willing to accept new players to a job, or to not "speedrun" a dungeon.


--Just queue up and tank to the best of your ability with the gear you have. Most players that I've seen (including myself), will have absolutely no objection to a tank (even in intro AF gear from their job quests) tanking WP / AK. [so long as that player is putting forth an honest effort]



Whatever you do, don't consider it your fault or 'leave' the party if a DPS is just maxing their damage and taking aggro from you... They should know very well what they're doing and accept the consequences (if they can't handle being the tank). Most likely an iLvl 90 DRG or BRD will tank the trash mobs, then back off on the main bosses.

Well if you aren't confident in your ability to play a tank character, you should probably run some of the earlier dungeons and really get a feel for what you need to do.

You should really never "let" anyone die. There are some exceptions, but for the majority of cases you should take them as a challenge to your ability rather than a lesson to teach to a stupid derpy dps. There are times where some players really should know better.

Just make sure you have a solid single target threat output and an okay to amazing multiple target threat output, keep marked targets on you and try to do your best. If anyone wants to give you shit for it, maybe they shouldn't have used the DF or woken up on the wrong side of the bed.

Don't be afraid to fail. Every time you fail you are a step closer to success. Embrace it and learn from it so that you don't keep making the same mistakes.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Is this a legitimate worry or should I just go in and if the dps don't learn to control aggro, let them die?

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omg, u should not let them die >.< just becoz they outgear u
if i'm the healer and u the tank i'll heal them until i die and all wipe XD
(if we out of the pinch i'll be happy XD)

some dps just too familiar with the run that they have their own favorite rotation
just ask them to be careful with agro and u should always check ur agro lvl and act accordingly, its tiring, same as healing in chaotic situation

i dont tank and will never be, but thats basically it

but after u gear up, it will be easier :)
it is something to worry but dont get scared of it

Good DPS watches the aggro table and does not pull threat no matter the situation (unless he knows he can handle it).

Aggro is not the problem. You can even do speed WP runs in hoplite. Actually, I've found in my runs, that it's much easier for warrior to hold aggro then Paladins. If aggro is really a problem (and again, it should not be), ask them to give you a few seconds so you're 1-2 turns ahead. They'll never be able to catch up.

It's the healer you have to watch out for. If he can't outpace the damage being done to you, your group is done.

You just have to do the last pull as 2 pulls instead of 1 big pull. You can't do that in hoplite.

If you use full Hoplite (level 60), that will be super fine because dungeon is level 50, its obvious you overgeared (there exception, Binding Coils of Bahamut is example, it obviously higher than 50)

About your gears underperform against those relic +1 and full i90 gears, you gonna need to be good at rotation for max efficient, group enmity controls and learn to dodge WS so keep youself alive and so on. If you did correct, you will doing fine

Those DPS don't know how to control their hate are deserve to die, of course, let them die : P unless you did something wrong there

So don't be scared too much, you have friends (you can't play alone, do you?), ask them to help train you up ^^

And last thing, those peoples queues for DF, they expected all peoples in party know how to get jobs done so you must at least know the game mechanic as Tank

You're better geared then me and I do just fine. (and I'm a very casual player)

So I don't think its gonne be a problem, most people in DF are relaxed. The ones looking for a SR are probably shouting in RT.

When in thought you can always shout for your own party. I'm sure there are ppl willing to help.

good luck

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

What I'm worried about is queuing in the DF and getting put with people that have relic or relic +1 and not being able to keep up with their damage.

Is this a legitimate worry or should I just go in and if the dps don't learn to control aggro, let them die?

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I can keep aggro on relic+1 MNK & SMN -- the biggest AoE DoT + single-target mess you can get -- with full ilvl55 gear (mostly ilvl49 accessories, all +VIT). If I lose aggro, it's always my fault. Maybe I tried to shove in a Storm's Eye where I didn't have time for it. Maybe I blew my MP on Flash when I didn't need to (and then was caught in Pacification with no enmity generation). It's not the DPS job to watch the aggro table, it's your job to watch it and keep up. You are the battlefield manager. The DPS are there to pour out as much hurt as possible, and if they can't do that, it's on you.

Remember to use Berserk and Inner Release frequently. Your DPS will not be sitting on Blood for Blood because you can't be bothered to use your abilities. Additionally, use Brutal Swing to buy some time to rebuild aggro on single targets while you set up Storm's Eye or drop extra AoE enmity.

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Originally Posted by Delorean

Well if you aren't confident in your ability to play a tank character, you should probably run some of the earlier dungeons and really get a feel for what you need to do.

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Highly disagree. Nothing will prepare you for the gear discrepancy that hits a fresh 50. You're running AV with others in the same item level range as you. As soon as you hit 50, there's a DPS discrepancy of 50-60% between your fresh 50 DPS and your ilvl90 DPS. That's a gap you'll never see before, and pre-50 dungeons will suggest a much, much larger enmity cushion than you'll end up with when you move up. Really no way to learn other than trial by fire.

AOE - Berserk + Overpower + Bloodbath, cycle through with BB combo and SE combo as needed. If you don't have Berserk just straight OP should be fine. Spam it 3-5 times depending on how much TP you have and they shouldn't come off your face.
Single Target - open with Infuriate -> Unchained -> Tomahawk -> HS -> Berserk -> SS -> BB. BB combo again and you'll be miles ahead on threat and in Wrath V.

The only trouble you should ever have is vs +1 BLM who just wants to burn through trash. Even NQ relic BLM is disgusting on threat. But as long as you're BB comboing on their primary target(s) then you shouldn't lose aggro. Also make sure to Brutual Swing -> Flash 2x when you get pacified from Berserk unless your healer Esuna/Leeches it off you.

If you're playing PLD, you're going to have some extra trouble in AOE but you still have tools (CoS + Flash spam + Riot Blade combo) that should help a lot. Popping FoF if you're under confident in how much threat you'll be able to hold is also a good idea.

Anyway, I wouldn't worry too much. If you're still having issues, farm Garuda for her Axe/Sword and all those problems will disappear.

It's a legitimate concern. Even with a relic sometimes there are blm's that still keep me on my toes. I reccomend getting your relic as soon as you can and farm castrum meridianum until you feel comfortable with your gear. Most Really Geared People run AK and WP.

You should try to get a garuda axe with your main, its gonna help a lot.
Nobody should expect you to be fully geared in i90 on the DF, and hate management is a party thing but you know... not every DD agrees.

Farming CM is a good advice, its what everyone did in the first two months of the game, and its fun to offtank with a war: lot of stuff to do. Too bad that wont get you any myth tomes.

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Originally Posted by OmegaSinX

It's a legitimate concern. Even with a relic sometimes there are blm's that still keep me on my toes. I reccomend getting your relic as soon as you can and farm castrum meridianum until you feel comfortable with your gear. Most Really Geared People run AK and WP.

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People still run Castrum?? >.>

I'd just run WP. It's perfectly doable in plain AF, you get some nice i55 drops (including weapons/shields) and as a tank, you'll be setting the pace. Then work your way up to AK once you have some i55/i70 gear.

If people whine at you for not speedrunning (I find this very very rarely happens) just ignore them. Even if you get a real asshat who decides to ragequit on you for being "new", it's not the end of the world. People run WP so regularly that a (non tank) replacement will pop in a minute or two. Just take one group at a time (no speed runs!) until the very last corridor - you may want to take the last two groups simultaneously whenever the Stalker starts chasing you.

Yes, BLM's are going to be your main concern I would bet. You have decent gear so you're not "undergeared" by any means but really here's what I personally do.

I enjoy DF groups, i really do. I'm healer as my main (whm) and PLD as my secondary. If i'm looking for a true Speed Run i'll go to RT and find a group. Easily can do sub-15 minutes in WP. If i'm DFing it though I know i'm risking getting fresh tanks or healers (if i'mrunning on PLD) and I have to adjust the way I run to compensate for their experience.

But to me, maybe i'm different, thats fun. The problem, which I don't see this being you because you're posting, are the undergeared jackasses that just don't care. It's their first time tanking, they think they can speedrun just cause i'm geared and agro's going all over i'm going OOM on first pull because each dps is pulling their own mob....bad times.

Just care abotu what you're doing, do the best you can and you'll be great!!

I am also a bit worried, I have a HQ Sword and HQ Shield (But not my relic weapons nor close to that lol just the winglet if I remember the name and kite shield) and my AF armor... I really want to do WP but I am scared that everyone will be outgearing me in all sorts of ways so then I will be a shitty tank....

IMHO if you shout for a non-speedrun for non-relic'ed players/jobs you will get many tells and avoid most problems.

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Originally Posted by AurickSchiffer

I am also a bit worried

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I would farm Ifrit hard mode for his sword first because it will help you with enmity. You'll need Ifrit sword or better for Titan hard mode anyway so it won't be a waste of time. After you get the sword, you will be fine with WP. You have over 4k HP which is more than enough for WP. After you get some darklight and WP gear, you can do AK and gear up with AK gear along side your darklight. Crafted iLvL 55 (filler) and crafted iLvL 70 are also options but crafted gear costs you more time.

I had the fear of not been good enough when i first hit 50 on my War but i gave it ago and it was not as hard or as bad as i was thinking.

The party most of the time is more than willing to help out a new tank over any other role most likely since there scared they might drive you out and be forced to wait 40mins odd for another run.

As for having a hard time with relic +1 dps that can be a problem but i found if they pull argo they react by slowing down just enough to not steal the mob form you with out losing to much dps.

The big problem you will face and its rare is the bad dps that will not follow the marks and just unload on what ever they happen to target first making tanking a bunch of mobs tricky at times but that is rare.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Leveled up all the magic classes and next leveled a warrior for fun and a change of perspective. He's in full hoplite (from my healing runs) save a ring and a bracer, lvl 90 belt and lvl 70 ring. Darklight weapon

What I'm worried about is queuing in the DF and getting put with people that have relic or relic +1 and not being able to keep up with their damage.

Is this a legitimate worry or should I just go in and if the dps don't learn to control aggro, let them die?

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Threat is not 100% a tank issue when everyone else can see their own threat and adapt to the situation. I self-manage threat when tanking, healing, and dpsing. Those that don't are either lazy or callous; in which case they can take the shortcut back. Either way, I'll tell ya exactly what I tell someone in your position when I'm either tanking or healing....just enjoy yourself.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Leveled up all the magic classes and next leveled a warrior for fun and a change of perspective. He's in full hoplite (from my healing runs) save a ring and a bracer, lvl 90 belt and lvl 70 ring. Darklight weapon

What I'm worried about is queuing in the DF and getting put with people that have relic or relic +1 and not being able to keep up with their damage.

Is this a legitimate worry or should I just go in and if the dps don't learn to control aggro, let them die?

---

I've got full DL and relic +1 on my PLD and I'm reluctant to use DF to get groups not because I'm concerned about not being able to hold agro but because the risk of getting grouped with moronic dps. Even when I was using the darklight weapon from WP I could hold agro against relic geared dps as long as they cooperated, followed marking and left the pulling to me.

The issue isn't gear, it's about whether the dps know how to play as part of a team.

Even with Ifrit's blade you're going to have problems with threat against geared groups. Something that helped me is I went with a crafted i55 weapon and stacked accuracy in the weapon and rings. That boosted me a little.

Once you get relic though that'll be a night and day difference

If you've got Relic DPS in your party and you're doing small pulls they're going to burn monsters down so fast your only concern is going to be protecting the healer.

If you're having problems during boss fights; communicate. Ask for a few seconds to build enmity before you start. If a DPS passes you on WAR you're best to Berserk/Unchained and spam your enmity tools. If you lose it to a DPS cover them and allow their hate to build up then Provoke it off them once Cover wears out.

If your DPS/Healer are really "geared" they're not going to die to a small group of trash (2-4 mobs) unless they're a BLM... who have access to Sleep/Lethargy tools anyway and they should use them to buy you time to regain hate.

It sounds to me you're more afraid of impatient people.

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Originally Posted by xRitzx

I would farm Ifrit hard mode for his sword first because it will help you with enmity.

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Ifrit weapon adds +1 weapon damage over ilvl55 GC or WP weapon. Not worth taking the time; go to Garuda with ilvl55 and get the ilvl70 weapon. Will be much more valuable against Titan anyway.

It's as much the DDs job to not pull aggro as it is for a tanks to generate as much as he possibly can. Even a geared tank would have to be wary of a pyro-maniac BLM relic+1 who likes to use Flare in quick succession. Single target DD should learn to switch targets if possible on multi-mob pulls if their current enmity on a target is edging too close to a tank.

as people have stated earlier, since you have a full set of hoplite, that means u have access to garuda (maybe on another char). Getting garuda weapon is enough to hold hate of ilvl70s with relic +1.

garuda weapon isnt far off from relic normal, and you generate enmity at a higher rate then other classes pound for pound. if garuda weapon is out of your reach, (which it shouldnt be, because you said you had a i90 belt was it?), then at least get ifrit or GC weapon.

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

Highly disagree. Nothing will prepare you for the gear discrepancy that hits a fresh 50.

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Well if you don't have a good idea of how to play a tank you will be able to pick up the fundamentals of your role and practice the basics in a potentially less stressful environment.

I mean, just because someone leveled a tank class it doesn't mean they are familiar with a good strategy for playing said class or the workings of instanced dungeon raids.

There is definitely a gap that is larger than those previously encountered, but these issues will be easier to manage with a good idea of what you need to do as opposed to being confused and overwhelmed, trying to figure out what it is that you need to do.

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Originally Posted by darzok

**snip**
The big problem you will face and its rare is the bad dps that will not follow the marks and just unload on what ever they happen to target first making tanking a bunch of mobs tricky at times but that is rare.

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You'd be surprised how often I meet these ppl. Some always pick the one you target first or at the time they switch targets. Others feel the marked mob is NOT the target to hit for some reason.

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Originally Posted by Delorean

Well if you don't have a good idea of how to play a tank you will be able to pick up the fundamentals of your role and practice the basics in a potentially less stressful environment.

I mean, just because someone leveled a tank class it doesn't mean they are familiar with a good strategy for playing said class or the workings of instanced dungeon raids.

There is definitely a gap that is larger than those previously encountered, but these issues will be easier to manage with a good idea of what you need to do as opposed to being confused and overwhelmed, trying to figure out what it is that you need to do.

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It's two sides of the coin really. First it's the gear discrepancy, then it's the change in playstyle. I did a lot of dungeons leveling up and think I have a decent grasp on tanking. Leveling up, people were much more willing to CC. Now with people used to seeing some do SR's it's FLARE! or BANE Shadowflare!! That's even if they or the healer isn't anywhere geared for it. I've resorted to flashing then cyclone -> infuriate -> cyclone just to get a lead.

Also, it's (mostly WHM) healers not being smart. If I new pulls were going fast or if the last mob was about to die, no way in hell was I putting a regen on a tank. Some look, most don't mainly because they have other things to worry about.

Just stay relaxed. I've got two relic blm in pty yesterday and had rly problems keeping hate. But it was fun and no one died.

Flash -> Berserk -> Overpower -> Bloodbath -> Spam OP 2-4 more times

Steel Cyclone isn't good until 2.1, don't use it. Especially if you have to spend Infuriate before a trash pull, because that means no bonus healing and bonus crit rate since you'll mainly be doing Flash/OP for a bit. If it's a small pull, like the first three hippogryphs in AK, then it's a nice way to get them all coupled together after you've built up 5 stacks of Wrath from the summoner/marauder pull. Only when you're already at 5 stacks and you've got Infuriate up should you be spending Steel Cyclone at all in 2.0 and even then it has very niche uses.

From my experiences in DF, WHMs tend to Regen a lot more than they need to. If you run into this situation, look at your current statuses and if you see Regen there, right click it and it'll go away. Then proceed to your next pull, or if you've got the time tell the WHM not to put Regen on you at the end of a pull or during a small pull.

I'd recommend your FIRST run to be with friends. Sure I know that you understand how other people pull the dungeon from other classes, but you need to be comfortable doing it yourself.

First run : take every pull as it is, don't try to skip pulls or link them together. Get a feel for how it works for you, and where your enmity generation is at.
Second run : Use what you learned, either pull more at once (if you feel comfortable with that) or try to smooth out marking or where you want to fight... and get settled in a rotation that will work against people with higher average gear level.

After that you'll have it down. Duty Finder runs don't have to be speed runs but you will get a mix of skill level and item-level people. If you go in prepared and knowing what YOU need to do and can do to handle the situation it makes it that much easier for everyone else.

If you are new to dungeons as a tank then say so. Don't get cocky and try to show off and you should be okay. I heal full time and I enjoy taking care of my tanks as long as they take care of me as well. A lot of groups ended badly because either one of us fell short of the ideal. Just give respect and you will receive respect (at least 70% of the time lol). I however, cannot speak for dps; that's a role I don't touch.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Leveled up all the magic classes and next leveled a warrior for fun and a change of perspective. He's in full hoplite (from my healing runs) save a ring and a bracer, lvl 90 belt and lvl 70 ring. Darklight weapon

What I'm worried about is queuing in the DF and getting put with people that have relic or relic +1 and not being able to keep up with their damage.

Is this a legitimate worry or should I just go in and if the dps don't learn to control aggro, let them die?

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Check my gear out for some perspective...

Just go in and do it. No need to be scared. Your the tank... run in like you own the place and set the tone. If you are a tad under geared, but know what you are doing (which you won't unless you try) you can make up for the lack of gear with skill.

Good Luck!