Garuda lore mishap?

Garuda returns in Final Fantasy XIV as the Primal worshiped by the Ixal, and is known as the Empress of Birds. It is said that in past ages, Garuda slew the malevolent Lord of Snakes to end his foul attempt to bind the world’s creatures to the earth. Though birds became free to roam the skies, Garuda was terribly wounded by the battle and was forced to feast upon the snake's carcass to recover her energies, said to have since then a taste for the flesh of land-bound mortals. This is the lore on Garuda on the wiki. Now we know the world snake Midgardsormr was killed ten years before 1.0 using the lore found on the wiki and the intro of 1.0 but world snake would be The Lord of the snakes correct? If so is Midgardsormr a "primal?" If not then he was killed twice ?

We never received any more information on the Lord of Snakes than that one article. However given what little we know of Midgardsormr I'd say it's unlikely the two are related.

There is nothing in the game that hints at Midgardsormr being the Lord of Snakes.

According to the Gamerscape and the regular FFXIV wikia, Midgardsormr was not the Lord of Snakes nor was he the world snake. He was a dragon supposedly charged by Nymeia and Althyk to guard the waters of Silvertear Falls. When the Garleans attacked Mor Dhona, he burst out and led the Dravanian dragon hordes in battle against the Garlean Armada. The Dravanians viewed Midgardsormr as a king. That would have made him Lord of Dragons, but now that position is held by Nidhogg who still lives. I believe you're confusing the actual Midgardsormr with the FFXIV rendition of him.

I also don't see any mention of that Garuda story in any of the wikis. You sure that's how it went?

As far as I can tell, the references to the Lord of Snakes were only ever mentioned on the Lodestone. If I had to guess, it was a little flavor text referencing a creation myth passed down among the Ixal.

That's what I got from the final fantasy wiki. And grrr he should always be the world snake!!!!! GRRRR

In 1.0 lore, he was referenced as as "The Wyrmking Midgarsormr", not 'lord of snakes'. Pretty clear they are not the same thing.

Also, other lore clearly indicates that when a primal is defeated, its essence can be reconstituted again at a later time, allowing them to live again.

This both infers that Midgarsormr is not a primal, and that IF the lord of snakes is some sort of primal, we as players may encounter him in the future.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

Also, other lore clearly indicates that when a primal is defeated, its essence can be reconstituted again at a later time, allowing them to live again.
This both infers that Midgarsormr is not a primal, and that IF the lord of snakes is some sort of primal, we as players may encounter him in the future.

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and where does King moogle mog thing stand with this tidbit of lore.....

Yeah there was a discussion a few pages back about that.

The general concensus is that as long as a person/thing is remembered by enough people + crystals + ascian summoning method = something like a primal.

It is thought the ascien method is corrupting.

This is just a theory, so only time will tell. But it would make sense if you take mog king into account.

Ok ...then could we not see a return of Midgardsormr? dragons have a reason to summon him(thinking ahead to when ishgard becomes accessible) and the should be able to attain enough crystals. I am also sure everyone remembers that battle.

I love Bahamut and all but In the end I just want to battle Midgardsormr and Levi (which the later is coming out soon!!!)

It seems as though Elder Primals are a different beast entirely. The name itself may well be a misnomer, as they are completely different from what we know as "Primals." Bahamut and Midgardsormr are Elder Primals, which from what I can tell, serve a specific purpose in regards to the balance of aether in Hydaelyn. Midgardsormr's corpse can still be seen in Mor Dhona and...

<Binding Coil spoilers>

...Bahamut is still lingering in pieces, but very much alive.

So it would seem that Elder Primals do not disperse their manifested aether like the Primals do, nor do they live in on in the Lifestream, as it is thought that the Primals do. I do not believe Midgardsormr can be summoned again in his former form, nor do I believe that he would retain anything that resembles his previous station as guardian over Silvertear Lake (meaning, whatever that made him special and specific to do that job is lost and probably would not be able to be recreated through a summoning).

I think, if I am allowed to make a FFVII parallel here, that Elder Primals are Hydaelyn's "Weapons." Intended to do good and protect, but just wind up mucking everything up and can't be replaced.

EDIT: Although, at the end of all that, I just thought of Odin, which blows my entire logic train out of the water. Oh well. I'm leaving it there. For posterity!

Wasn't she "forced to eat the flesh of man" whom she protected, because of her motherly nature, but in doing so it made her go mad? I don't know why but this undeniably sticks out in my mind. She doesn't seem to be flesh hungry she seems more bat shiz crazy.

Wait, don't confuse yourselves.
It has been states many times that Midgarsormr is not a primal by any means. A king among dragons, but certainly not a primal

Yeah, and the proof is in his rotting corpse that 15 years later is still entwined around the wreckage of the Agrius in Silvertear Lake where it crashed in 1562 6AE. He hasn't come back to life since.

Compare that to Primals who are immortal beings from the aether, whom can be endlessly resummoned to life no matter how many times they fall, and technically have no body, at least, not a proper living one. They are just an aetheric entity given corporeal form which then shatters. Midgardsormr did not have this ability, and was just a dragon, albeit an immensely powerful one, like the sea monster that attacked the ferry in the original 1.0 Limsa opening.

Well, Enkidoh, this is spoilers for Coil

But Bahamut still has his body as well, even if split in a bunch of pieces and being slowly repaired

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Originally Posted by Skies

But Bahamut still has his body as well, even if split in a bunch of pieces and being slowly repaired

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Ya I seen that on youtube...hvnt made it to Coil yet...but this rises another question, what are the jobs/powers of an elder primal?

Bahamut is a massive dragon that we see destroying everything yet he's in suspended animation slowly healing himself?
Odin just randomly kills whoever he so pleases...

but where is the point??? A test? guardians of some unknown power? remnants of a forgotten time?

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Originally Posted by Skies

Well, Enkidoh, this is spoilers for Coil

But Bahamut still has his body as well, even if split in a bunch of pieces and being slowly repaired

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correct me if i'm wrong. this is only speculation on my part.

that body is pure aether still, albeit massive. his head is attached to a massive aetheryte cluster which is functioning like a heart, and the rest of his appendages are linked in various places to the over-aspected aetheryte around the ragnarok, which he is using to rebuild himself.


seeing how that bahamut, like odin, is a elder primal: i'm confident that they are capable of feats that trump the abilities of normal primals.

odin periodically resurrects himself with a different appearance, despite not really having any worshipers, and seems to be much more powerful than any primal and gains strength each time he is quelled, despite not having a stable supply of crystals.

bahamut has had a physical form since his sealing by the allagan empire a few thousand years ago. Despite taking massive damage from whatever Luisoix did to him after they both vanished at carteneau (the kind of damage would disrupt a normal primal) he still retains form. elder primals are indeed much more resilient than normal primals, but they are still made from aether still require aether to maintain form.

Bahamuts continued presence is through artificial means using Allagan technology and has nothing to do with his status as an elder primal.

Maaaaan, why did you have to go and bump a topic where I was completely and entirely wrong about a piece of information?!

*hides in embarrassment*

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Originally Posted by myahele

Yeah there was a discussion a few pages back about that.

The general concensus is that as long as a person/thing is remembered by enough people + crystals + ascian summoning method = something like a primal.

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I believe that the game itself does not call Godd King Moogle Mog a primal.
They do say that people whishing hard enough + a whole bunch of crystals = something will appear.

So the Good King was no primal, but was definitely summoned out of the aether and shaped by the whishes of his followers.

in term of tempering, u'll clearly see that Bahamut can possessed the body and mind (like any demon) of the tempered ones at the end of coil 2

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Yeah, and the proof is in his rotting corpse that 15 years later is still entwined around the wreckage of the Agrius in Silvertear Lake where it crashed in 1562 6AE. He hasn't come back to life since.

Compare that to Primals who are immortal beings from the aether, whom can be endlessly resummoned to life no matter how many times they fall, and technically have no body, at least, not a proper living one. They are just an aetheric entity given corporeal form which then shatters. Midgardsormr did not have this ability, and was just a dragon, albeit an immensely powerful one, like the sea monster that attacked the ferry in the original 1.0 Limsa opening.

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That was Leviathan

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Originally Posted by godwin

That was Leviathan

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Originally Posted by Fernehalwes

No, that is not Leviathan. It's a sea serpent.

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/10characters

It would be nice to have an echo of the Limsa 1.0 opening and establish that this IS NOT Leviathan, if only to try and do away with this misunderstanding...

Based on recent lore I have given a theory on Garuda herself. Perhaps Garuda was not always a Primal but a mortal creature be she man or bird there was a Primal that was a snake king by rights and Garuda whatever she was had some connection to the Twelve and by summoning a fraction of their power like Louisoix and the Circle of Knowing did eventually gained the power of a Primal and hence destroyed the Primal she was up against but as she was about to fade she then absorbed the aether from the snake Primal that she defeated and hence developed into the bloodthirsty Primal that she is now and by all means the Ixal knew of her and hence prayed for her return and then the Ascians show up as Paragons and taught them how to summon the Primal and so there you have it.

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Originally Posted by Crystallis91

Based on recent lore I have given a theory on Garuda herself. Perhaps Garuda was not always a Primal but a mortal creature be she man or bird there was a Primal that was a snake king by rights and Garuda whatever she was had some connection to the Twelve and by summoning a fraction of their power like Louisoix and the Circle of Knowing did eventually gained the power of a Primal and hence destroyed the Primal she was up against but as she was about to fade she then absorbed the aether from the snake Primal that she defeated and hence developed into the bloodthirsty Primal that she is now and by all means the Ixal knew of her and hence prayed for her return and then the Ascians show up as Paragons and taught them how to summon the Primal and so there you have it.

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Well that was a sentence, after a fashion.

Hate to be part of the necro but there is specific infomation added that might change the status of midgardsormr

Ishigard was intent on sending troops into Mor Dhona to guard Midgardsormr due to fears of possible return to the living. Now the issue that comes with this comes from the fact we know the ascian's in some form are in on Ishigard's decisions much like they were with the garlean's. So I am unsure if this is a poly to get something out of the ship the guardian has claimed, or if it is even simpiler then aetheric rebirth. Like an egg that contains the breed of Dragon Midgardsormr for instance.