Ranged DPS, what's gonna be the highest after 2.1?

BRD? or BLM? or SMN o_O?

SMN

/10char

BLM, cause we bring the heat.

nuff said...

That's going to depend on the factors of the fight.

How long does the fight last? Will the SMN get the chance for their DOTs to ramp up?

How much movement is there? Is the BLM spending more time dodging than attacking?

And in a situation where both of those factors are at play, a BRD will dominate.

Though from the sound of things, Bard is probably just going to lose Blood for Blood. People are acting like Bard is getting potency reduced by 50% on all of its abilities.

2.1 isnt changing "Who's highest ranged DPS?" though. BLM and SMN already out-damage BRD.

In a pure test dummy scenario, given enough time, SMN edges out over BLM. BLM can deliver large amounts of damage on-demand though.

If there is any real AoE...BLM by far.

Single-target...BLM or SMN, depending on the skill of the players and how many Firestarters the BLM get.

BRD...is not even close to either of them, really...

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Originally Posted by PArcher

If there is any real AoE...BLM by far.

Single-target...BLM or SMN, depending on the skill of the players and how many Firestarters the BLM get.

BRD...is not even close to either of them, really...

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This. BRD only comes close in a movement-intensive fight (i.e. Titan) and there's no indication that it will change in 2.1.

Heavy movement = bard
AoE = Blm
Multitarget/single target with high uptime = Smn

This is exactly how they are now and bard is the only ranged job getting adjustments and it is only a very minor nerf.

Boss w/o little to no phase changes - SMN
Boss W/ multiple phase changes - BLK

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Originally Posted by Kryzen

Boss w/o little to no phase changes - SMN
Boss W/ multiple phase changes - BLK

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Why would a phase change matter?

Smn out dps blm by quite a bit on single targets.

though yes. Blm goes through trash mobs like a hot knife though butter :P

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Originally Posted by T0rin

Why would a phase change matter?

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Not playing either class, I'm guessing a BLM could use any invuln phases to switch to Umbral and regen MP, allowing them to minimize their down time.

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Originally Posted by Rochetm

Heavy movement = bard
AoE = Blm
Multitarget/single target with high uptime = Smn

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Pretty much this, but once spell speed can get racked up enough to which spells can have casts times about 1.8, so after the first sec you can move and itll still go off due to server lag, then smn will take over the movement aspect and maybe blm for that matter.

It's really close at the moment tbh between SMN and BLM. Due to the fact that certain fights benefit certain classes, it really doesn't matter as long as your players have a complete understanding of their class and are doing the best dps that they can in that encounter despite any shortcomings due to mechanics. On a patchwerk style fight with 1 mob or a heavy AOE fight, I would probably say BLM. Where, on a fight like T1, I would probably say SMN. And finally, if mana song wasn't necessary, a bard may take top dps on a fight where mobility is high, but even then a good blm may still take top.

It's hard to give a concrete answer on threads like this because to be honest dps on a target dummy doesn't matter, it matters in actual encounters where mechanics may hinder or benefit certain classes.

So "it depends."

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Originally Posted by PArcher

If there is any real AoE...BLM by far.

Single-target...BLM or SMN, depending on the skill of the players and how many Firestarters the BLM get.

BRD...is not even close to either of them, really...

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you do know that thundercloud is the BLM dps increase not firestarter.....

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Originally Posted by Devaking55

you do know that thundercloud is the BLM dps increase not firestarter.....

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http://xivdb.com/?skill/90076/Firestarter

So an insta-cast Fire III doesn't increase you damage at all? Interesting...

I don't think you all realize how summoners work.

On any fight where targets last longer than 20-30 seconds, summoners are at optimal dps.

So "phase changes" unless they are extremely rapid, or happen at terrible times (such as right after DoT application) don't really mean anything.

BLM actually wins on extended (read: like 6 minutes nonstop) fights hands down, because again infinite resource you stupid developers >.>

And SMN wins cleave.

I don't think we have enough data to say whether one is better than the other on single target standstill fights though.

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Originally Posted by Klive

http://xivdb.com/?skill/90076/Firestarter

So an insta-cast Fire III doesn\\'t increase you damage at all? Interesting...

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It doesn't as it's on a gcd like everything else >.> makes you mobile that's for sure

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Originally Posted by Devaking55

It doesn't as it's on a gcd like everything else >.> makes you mobile that's for sure

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Also worth mentioning that it's really hard to miss thundercloud procs they have double the potency of fire3 can proc themselves and puts you back into astral fire faster as you don't have to cast a thunder 2

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Originally Posted by Devaking55

It doesn't as it's on a gcd like everything else >.> makes you mobile that's for sure

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That doesn't matter since you're not hard casting Fire III at any point except for phase changes. So it'll always be a DPS increase.

Movement isn't much of a problem for summoners already compared to black mages.

Movement isn't much of a problem for summoners already especially compared to black mages.

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Originally Posted by Devaking55

It doesn't as it's on a gcd like everything else >.> makes you mobile that's for sure

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So, we're expected to believe that replacing a 150 potency, 2.5 second cast costing a lot of MP with a 220 potency, instant cast costing no MP is somehow not a DPS gain?

I know I'm not a BLM, but there are very, very few cases where pushing the shiny button that gives you more damage at less cost is a bad thing.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

So, we're expected to believe that replacing a 150 potency, 2.5 second cast costing a lot of MP with a 220 potency, instant cast costing no MP is somehow not a DPS gain?

I know I'm not a BLM, but there are very, very few cases where pushing the shiny button that gives you more damage at less cost is a bad thing.

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Hahah, I pull from tanks with multiple a few Firestarter procs cause the mobs sense how "mobile" I am.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

So, we're expected to believe that replacing a 150 potency, 2.5 second cast costing a lot of MP with a 220 potency, instant cast costing no MP is somehow not a DPS gain?

I know I'm not a BLM, but there are very, very few cases where pushing the shiny button that gives you more damage at less cost is a bad thing.

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never said it was a bad thing and i never said not to use it. foolish hyur :) i would prioritize thundercloud over firestarter is all.

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Originally Posted by Devaking55

never said it was a bad thing and i never said not to use it. foolish hyur :) i would prioritize thundercloud over firestarter is all.

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You. . .you said it's not a DPS increase, even though it clearly is. The implication is that you wouldn't use it, because it's not a DPS increase. You also still haven't explained how it could possibly not be a DPS increase, aside from the (I thought) well-known bit about not waiting between casts to see if it proc'd.

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Originally Posted by Jiggle

BRD? or BLM? or SMN o_O?

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The one that stays alive!

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Originally Posted by Devaking55

It doesn't as it's on a gcd like everything else >.> makes you mobile that's for sure

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Lol?
You are aware that even if thundercloud procs the following Thunder III(why use any other) runs on the gcd as well?
Firestarter procs are clearly DPS increments simply due to the free insta-cast'd Fire III which is stronger than Fire. It also allows you to stay in Astral Fire III with an additional Fire to cast each proc which is where majority of your damage comes from.

So regardless of his reasoning, you should prioritize thundercloud procs over firestarter.

The simple reason being that firestarter procs aren't going anywhere, while you can miss out on a thundercloud proc if you don't pop it asap.

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Originally Posted by NeoAmon

No one said MNK? Serious? An excellent MNK out class everyone IMHO in term of single target dps, not to mention they are getting buffed.

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Well no one mentioned MNK because we are discussing ranged DPS classes. Did you simply not read the title?

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Originally Posted by Maku

Well no one mentioned MNK because we are discussing ranged DPS classes. Did you simply not read the title?

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I actually did not ^^. Apologies :)

Nothing will change. SMN will remain top DPS in extended fights by a very large margin.

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Originally Posted by Jahaudant

Nothing will change. SMN will remain top DPS in extended fights by a very large margin.

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No, BLM will.

SMN wins cleave and likely single target.

SMN has mana problems.

We are ignoring bardsong because if you do count it, then you'll also have to subtract bard's 20% loss just for summoner.

There's no fight long enough for SMN to run out though. The longest fight currently is Twintania and SMN is by far the strongest class on that encounter, due to various other mechanics that are friendly to SMN (lots of cleaves, ability to keep dps up in situations where other classes aren't), plus bards have the ability to play ballad during the first set of divebombs just for the SMN at no dps cost. This isn't going to change in 2.1.

Blackmage for sure. SMN got nerfed to the ground and back

BLM might be getting nerfed too. There's no mention of it in the notes but there's a good possibility they're losing double dipping.

Dear SE, why on earth would you NERF SMN? Yoshi, please, I know you like BLM, but you cant just keep crapping on SMN as "the other casting class"

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Originally Posted by Seobit

BLM might be getting nerfed too. There's no mention of it in the notes but there's a good possibility they're losing double dipping.

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So they cannot do WP speedruns anymore...while summoner gets TRASHED in content that actually matters. Great trade

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Originally Posted by Seobit

BLM might be getting nerfed too. There's no mention of it in the notes but there's a good possibility they're losing double dipping.

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double dipping isn't as bad as losing a whole spell. not to mention the loss of crit now that allagan boots are void of both crit and accuracy.

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Originally Posted by Seobit

BLM might be getting nerfed too. There's no mention of it in the notes but there's a good possibility they're losing double dipping.

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Yeah double dipping is getting nerfed as it was announced to be a bug. The patch note did not include fixed bugs so it might be 2.1

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Originally Posted by Seobit

BLM might be getting nerfed too. There's no mention of it in the notes but there's a good possibility they're losing double dipping.

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I have my doubts we'll lose double dipping. But they did mention it being a bug so we'll see.

Regardless, we have lost Blizzard II due to it's potency getting halved which is a big part of our Flare rotation.
I wonder if Flare is even viable now since Transposing is going to have a greater effect on the speed of the AoE rotation.