I want there to be some level of customization for the jobs. They don't have to be big elaborate 40 point talent trees, but right now our Chocobos have more depth of choice and customization than the main jobs in this game. I really hate to use WoW as an example since it has a tendency to completely derail topics around here, but I like what they did with talent trees in MoP.
There's always going to be a best choice for certain talent tiers, but they've come a long way in letting players pick the talent that best suits them or the situation. As an example I main a Blood DK and I get to choose how I regenerate resources.
Cross-class abilities just don't offer any real level of customization because in most cases they are either mandatory due to lack of other options or completely useless i.e. Hawk's Eye on a caster.
Before you jump down my throat, I'm not asking for SE to bring WoW style talent trees here. I simply want any level of customization at this point.
Can We Have Talent Trees?
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12-08-2013, 03:56 AMBlarpCan We Have Talent Trees?
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12-08-2013, 04:04 AMNoahlimits
This won't happen simply because of the armory/change job ability. If you want to be different you'll just roll a different class.
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12-08-2013, 04:06 AMAsdamine
At some point in the progress of development for a game, people will find the most optimized build for any given class/job. So there is really no point for it.
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12-08-2013, 04:06 AMAxidrainwould be cool if we were able to change jobs in pre-made instances at least. i understand why it wouldnt work in DF. currently the job changing system is not fully utilized.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noahlimits
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12-08-2013, 04:08 AMYagrush
It has been proven time and time again that Talent Trees is an illusion of choice and customization. In the end of the day, people are always gonna look for and choose the accepted talent build. This won't help solve anything.
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12-08-2013, 04:09 AMAlerith
Job Crystals are talent trees and will be more evident as new jobs are released.
Your Arcanist can specialize in healing (SCH) or damage (SMN) but can't be both at the same time. Changing jobs is like shifting trees. Which is also the reason the job levels are tied to class level. You aren't leveling an entire new class, you're specializing your class. -
12-08-2013, 04:10 AMAirgetThat is issue with skill trees, they are just the illusion of choice, it's more like having each "class" have 2-3 options to choose from. There is no multiple combination cause at one point there will be the "favored" "best" setup and what's worse if you look at games like swtor and I even think WoW if guilty of this but nerfs and changes that occur to classes and skills in skill trees really does ruin the experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asdamine
Cause you could find a build you like but if the developers deem it to be to overpowering or good they will nerf it to "balance" it out with the other skills forcing you to change your playstyle and even furthering the fact it's only an illusion of choice. -
12-08-2013, 04:18 AMCigaran
Isn't that the basic role filled by Materia and cross-class Actions?
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12-08-2013, 05:26 AMNaunetThat's why the solution is something more akin to WildStar's Milestone system or WoW's current incarnation of "talents" - a series of very distinct choices that are all situationally useful, encouraging thoughtful decision making depending on the needs of a given encounter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yagrush
Materia is only usable if you have crafted gear, and there's pretty much zero customization with cross-class actions. They don't provide meaningful situational choices. You level up a couple additional classes, pop em on your bar, and then never think about them again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cigaran
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12-08-2013, 05:36 AMZenakuYep and they going to keep adding more jobs to each class and add new class with new jobs for each. People seem not to understand the idea behind Jobs. The jobs are the Talent trees right now only Arcanist show you this but later each class would have more then one job. Like i believeQuote:
Originally Posted by Alerith
at some point Pug would have PUP as there second job. -
12-08-2013, 05:56 AMShurrikhan
True and detailed customization within a class(/job)-based game will generally work only when there is no cutting-edge content and there is more to the endgame than just raids, which is far from the MMO model.
That said, Wrath did a better job that I think most gave it credit for in terms of being able to place... 10-25% of your points differently than every other player in your given primary specialization. Of course, they didn't like the work needed to keep that up...
To be honest, I too would love to see some customization choices, but there's a fine line between playstyle variance and niche variance, between a PLD who has more support flavor and one who can only OT. The permanence or simultaneous balance (something that affects both how one supports and does damage within a single customization trait, for instance) of those specializations would also be important. I don't want to lose niches; I only want customization to alter the way in which that role is carried out such as to better fit the flow of the party and make some new opportunities, generally increasing the fun of combat.
:: Keep in mind there are plenty of other ways to have the feeling of specialization without locking your character into certain choices--to simply have more tools than you can simultaneously use, or even fit into a complete rotation. Therein you already have multiple ways to run the class, with the ideal use of their mixture dependent on both situation (more than just fight-/boss-based) and some gambling/fine prediction.