Best snap threat options for WAR?

PLDs in my FC are switching over to WARs, but some of them have concerns that their snap threat capability in situations like T1 and T4 might be low. I'm no WAR, and admittedly almost never run with any, so I can't give them advice or input.

So, what are the best snap threat options? These include both when you have time before aggro is drawn, and when you need an attack out right away and a Butcher's Block just isn't fast enough (like in T4's Dreadnaught spawning)).

Thanks.

Berserk Overpower spam and if you can get Unchained in you should be golden.

By Snap Threat, I mean very quick aggro draw, usually for a boss. AFAIK Overpower has the speed of a turtle going up a steep hill in terms of coming out due to its long animation.

Flash is still a thing.

Provoke into Tomahawk at range if the boss has aggro on someone else. Provoke will put you on the top of the threat list and Tomahawk will buy you some time as you run up to said boss and commence your Butcher's Block combo.
In any other situation you just have to grin and bare it with the normal Butcher's Block combo and hope that the DPS or Healer didn't draw too much attention to themselves and you can carry on as normal once you have regained control. If you are having aggro trouble frequently; try opening with Berserk and Internal Release combined and spam flash while Pacified - of course don't Mana starve yourself if you require AoE threat generation on a certain boss, although Overpower will make short work of that, once Pacification ends.

If Tomahawk isn't enough to secure hate on a boss at the pull, a quick slap with Butcher's Block before going into combo is normally enough to generate substantial hate that will hold you off through your first BB combo; use damage CDs before hand as needed, otherwise set them up with the use of your first Storm's Eye combo or during a DPS check.

just use the new holman.... (however its spelled) it will snap the mob right to you and hold it there for a few seconds while you hate combo

For AOE

Flash --> overpower

or if you are really skillful pop infuriate just before the mobs pop and use a steel cyclone.

flash is great for snap threat
voke > tomahawk if it's walking away

And to spin-off from Sasagwa
flash > infuriate (assuming your not already) > Cyclone
cause with the flash you don't need to be perfect on the timings of infuriate and buy a second to cyclone if your prone to lag-spikes like so many

Best snap would probably be inner beast for pre 2.1 and outside of bb combo. It has a fast animation and you get bonus aggro from the healing component

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Originally Posted by wlakiz

you get bonus aggro from the healing component

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Nope. :( Makes me sad, but you don't get agro from our heals.

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Originally Posted by Paikis

Nope. :( Makes me sad, but you don't get agro from our heals.

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No? Makes me sad too!

It really depends on the situation since Coil has resource management to worry about too. On Snake Split you can use Unchained and Overpower. On T4 if you blow through the first set of spiders using UnChained Berserk Overpower then you will need Flash for the Soldier and Knight while you recover TP. If you are running as War MT then you can start off with BB out of combo for single target. It will only be 100 potency but it still has it's enmity multiplier making it the best skill for initial snap aggro.

For your examples (T1 and T4), flash is the best option. When you know the split is coming, you hang out next to the boss and as soon as he splits you flash and start in on your combo, same as a paladin. On turn 4, you stand where stuff is going to spawn and you flash it up, turn on berserk, and go to town with overpowers / your combo, basically the same as a paladin. Turn 4 resource management is surprisingly easy once you're familiar with where you need to be to pick stuff up so you don't end up needing to flash too often. In my experience there's not really a situation where you need to overspend your TP to keep up with threat.

Flash is probably as good as it gets, tomahawk for range.

Once 2.1 rolls around, Steel Cyclone will probably be our version of Flash.

Don't really see in what way PLD would have higher snap threat than WAR. Possibly because of CoS, but I doubt that a mere 100 potency does enough to make any real difference. Berserk is even better than Fight or Flight when it comes to burst.

Depends. For t1 threat on new snake, prepare a Butcher's Block (aka wait after Skull Sunder till the snake splits) and just use it when it does. Easily put so much aggro it doesn't matter but you can Tomahawk while you run to the other side. For the ADS's adds, I would just be careful with things like Regen/Medica II regen portion on me as that'll direct threat to healer if you use tomahawk to engage. In general for lots of mobs, Steel Cyclone.

Best snap is the same as PLDs but with WAR abilites... But as a WAR unless you are using flash or just terrible you, don't have aggro problems.
Flash is crap, better L2position if you are going to be a WAR.
For Cad know when the split is and just wait and pre load a combo'd butchers block > and either keep going or kite to OT spot (depending on strat)
ADS watch stacks on other tank, preload combo block then = voke > block ...win

Turn1 split: Flash, tab target, start running, Tomahawk spam until in position.

Turn4: Flash first, then berserk+overpower or enmity combo. 2nd or 3rd Flash also possibly if you're having trouble getting targets grouped.

Flash first is important because 1) No target required saves a split second, and 2) higher immediate threat than some abilities.

Steel Cyclone might be useful after 2.1.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

PLDs in my FC are switching over to WARs, but some of them have concerns that their snap threat capability in situations like T1 and T4 might be low. I'm no WAR, and admittedly almost never run with any, so I can't give them advice or input.

So, what are the best snap threat options? These include both when you have time before aggro is drawn, and when you need an attack out right away and a Butcher's Block just isn't fast enough (like in T4's Dreadnaught spawning)).

Thanks.

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Hmm not to seem rude, Your Pld's are changing to War since there getting a buff?
And then they have concerns how to generate proper enmity. I think the best advice to give them is learn how to play warrior outside of fates? War will be getting a enmity boost should make it easy, they should be trying to preload there combo's regardless of war or pld for stuff like T1/4 anyways.

Pld will still be better at things so being a tank and having war and pld and bringing the proper 1 to the situation will be better. I kinda question your tanks, kinda sounds like there changing for the wrong reason. If they played War and Pld enmity should be the last thing they think of imo, and more of how they will add/take advantage of the upcoming buffs in the correct/proper situation. Not to stereotype or anything but your tanks maybe thinking war will be "OP" and jumping the wagon a little to early.

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Originally Posted by Stalkster

Hmm not to seem rude, Your Pld's are changing to War since there getting a buff?
And then they have concerns how to generate proper enmity. I think the best advice to give them is learn how to play warrior outside of fates? War will be getting a enmity boost should make it easy, they should be trying to preload there combo's regardless of war or pld for stuff like T1/4 anyways.

Pld will still be better at things so being a tank and having war and pld and bringing the proper 1 to the situation will be better. I kinda question your tanks, kinda sounds like there changing for the wrong reason. If they played War and Pld enmity should be the last thing they think of imo, and more of how they will add/take advantage of the upcoming buffs in the correct/proper situation. Not to stereotype or anything but your tanks maybe thinking war will be "OP" and jumping the wagon a little to early.

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It's not just my FC with PLDs switching to WARs in 2.1. Much in the same way that a large chunk of WARs switched to PLD shortly after people got to end-game in 2.0, there are going to be a ton of people switching from PLD to WAR for the benefit of their raid. People just want to play optimally, and as it turns out, WAR + PLD looks to be more optimal than PLD + PLD, so people are switching - there's nothing wrong with that.

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Originally Posted by Fireseen

Best snap is the same as PLDs but with WAR abilites... But as a WAR unless you are using flash or just terrible you, don't have aggro problems.
Flash is crap, better L2position if you are going to be a WAR.
For Cad know when the split is and just wait and pre load a combo'd butchers block > and either keep going or kite to OT spot (depending on strat)
ADS watch stacks on other tank, preload combo block then = voke > block ...win

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How is Flash crap? It's much quicker than Overpower, and deals more enmity. It's also the only skill you have that uses mana, taking advantage of a perfectly good source that is otherwise just sitting there doing nothing.

In a comparable situation with an equally geared PLD I can gain aggro faster than a PLD with Overpower, I never once have used flash on WAR and have 0 threat issues. It is also worth noting Overpower is effected by Berserk so even MORE enmity. Basically Overpower and non bling traited flash are only for trash packs/AoE packs.

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Originally Posted by Fireseen

In a comparable situation with an equally geared PLD I can gain aggro faster than a PLD with Overpower, I never once have used flash on WAR and have 0 threat issues. It is also worth noting Overpower is effected by Berserk so even MORE enmity. Basically Overpower and non bling traited flash are only for trash packs/AoE packs.

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I think you'll find Berserk also affects Flash. Haven't tested this though, so if someone else has, let me know.

Yes berserker affects flash. I cant tell you numbers but it does.
I ran several "tests" on the three small wyverns on t5, i had to sacrifice the BRD but it was worth.

What i would like to know is if flash can crit.

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Originally Posted by Maqaqa

What i would like to know is if flash can crit.

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From what I understand, Flash can't critically hit. I remember someone attempting to test whether it could or not, but the test was mostly inconclusive because it wasn't possible to force an instance where it would have crit. (but through the duration of testing it showed consistent enmity generation).

I spam tomahawk if I have to pull a boss into position. Otherwise, it's usually tomahawk > flash > Butcher's block combo. For multiple mobs I hit overpower 3 times then flash. In the case that a mob gets away from you, provoke > tomahawk. However these will change next week.

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Originally Posted by Maqaqa

Yes berserker affects flash. I cant tell you numbers but it does.
I ran several "tests" on the three small wyverns on t5, i had to sacrifice the BRD but it was worth.

What i would like to know is if flash can crit.

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No, flash cannot crit because it has no damage modifier attached to it.
The amount of threat is explicitly based from buffs/wpndmg/atkpwr.

For those questioning PLD's snap threat, I think its more to do with oGCD abilities. I personally save up Spirit's Within, and try to have a CoS ready when I'm picking up things (like in T4 waves). Its not a "huge" lead, but even using a Fast Blade (if my timing was off for some reason) > Spirit's Within > CoS > Savage Blade, really doesn't miss a beat and as long as it isn't a Firestarter proc BLM criting, most people can open up without slowing down and not passing me before Halone. So because of that boost I'd say PLD has a slight edge.

To the OP, it depends on situation. There wouldn't be much issue if the Tanks know the fights fairly well. T1 just have a SS or BB ready for Cad pop. Even a non comboed BB > Tomahawk (if they are moving) will be enough to get in position. Flash only if you have targeting issues IMO. T2 its the same thing. You know when stacks are wearing so have a comboed SS or preferably BB ready. For the interval they'd be tanking, Berserk would obviously be good. I wouldn't unchained in 2.1 over 20% DR in T2 at least. In T3.. j/k :p In T4 Zerk Flash > Overpower for adds, if they are going to Dred tank, I always have a Combo ready on a last spider before Dred. For wave 6 if no combo ready, Flash or Overpower > BB. Its actually pretty cut and dry what to do for pickups.

Steel Cyclone will be good snap aggroe, but we shouldn't need it, and 20% DR will overshadow it every day of the week in meaningful content.

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Originally Posted by Maqaqa

What i would like to know is if flash can crit.

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Nope, according to BB math, it is about 500 potency modified by weapon/power. But since there is no actual damage, there is no crit.

Best non-provoke snap aggro is a pre-loaded Butcher's Block because that is around 3,225 hate potency - which nothing else really compares to. Outside of a pre-loaded combo, Non-Combo Butcher's Block and Overpower have the two highest hate potency at 750 and 725, respectively. Flash is also a good option because I don't think the hate potency is modified by the Defiance DPS debuff like BB and OP? Pretty sure it is just 500 x 1.5 defiance bonus. I think it gets to cheat since there is no actual damage done.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

It's not just my FC with PLDs switching to WARs in 2.1. Much in the same way that a large chunk of pussies switched to PLD shortly after people got to end-game in 2.0, there are going to be a ton of people switching from PLD to WAR for the benefit of their raid. People just want to play optimally, and as it turns out, WAR + PLD looks to be more optimal than PLD + PLD, so people are switching - there's nothing wrong with that.

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:) Just teasing. Kinda.

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Originally Posted by Maqaqa

I ran several "tests" on the three small wyverns on t5, i had to sacrifice the BRD but it was worth.

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I lolled. Thank you.