Letter to all bards about Mages Ballad

Dear Bards ,

Mages Ballad 30 3.00s 2.50s Free 25y 0y
Refreshes MP of all nearby party members while lowering own damage dealt by 20%. MP is drained while singing.


Use it or find a new tank for WP run.


Yours sincerely , your flash spamming speed running WP tank.

riot blade is your friend. use it.

speed run often with a black mage and bard combination, have never had the need for ballad. better off using requiem so everything dies faster.

Dear OP,

There are a lot of tanks for WP Speedruns who don't have these issues. You just labeled yourself as a bad.

Sincerely,
Everyone.

Good tanks I know don't need it. I'd rather have requiem up for faster burns. I'll occasionally put it up between pulls to help the whm holy spam.

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Originally Posted by Grailer

"...find a new tank for WP run. "

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The most useful part of the post right there. Thanks for the tip ^_^

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Originally Posted by LobsterBisque

I'll occasionally put it up between pulls to help the whm holy spam.

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This is indeed how it's supposed to be used in WP - between pulls only, never during the fight.

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Originally Posted by Sunarine

The most useful part of the post right there. Thanks for the tip ^_^

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Yep. Bad tank is bad.

Bards only purpose is to regen MP for WHM and BLM and PLD .

If they don't do that then might as well take DRG since they have better AOE dps than BRD .

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Originally Posted by Zellata

This is indeed how it's supposed to be used in WP - between pulls only, never during the fight.

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exactly but 90% of the bards in DF groups don't even use it for entire run .

So here I am standing around inbetween pulls waiting for MP to regen to full so I can do another pull . Usually after the first pull.

Waiting sucks . If I wanted to wait I would roll a DPS and sit around waiting for DF que to pop.

I do not beliee a Paladin can keep up with the AoE burst a BLM can put out if they are utilizing flash 3 GCDs.

Grailer, first it's Dragoons, now it's Bards. Maybe you should start a FC of your own so you can craft the perfect speedrun static party for WP. Seems to be giving you a lot of trouble.

Y'know. Cause you're a bad tank that blames everyone else for your inadequacies.

Why does the OP have to be labeled as a bad tank?
You don't know if he is or isn't.
Hell he could be perfect at utilizing his CD's and maintaining his agro for all you know.

You're all making massive assumptions based on the fact that he dislikes the way some players behave.
So you're literally crucifying him just for having an opinion you don't like.

Get out of here with that nonsense, its not necessary nor justified.

I said nothing about his ability to perform the function. He's a jerk that blames everyone around him and posts troll threads to this forum. He's a bad <whatever>.

Who the hell uses BRD anymore? Double blm or double whm- 1 as pure holy spamming. Brd for wp is so 3 weeks ago.

Regardless of whether everyone is playing correctly or not, the OP seems to be one of these players that DF a WP and rage quits when everyone isn't perfect. If you want a perfect party form your own beforehand.

Consider that people using DF for dungeon instances are often learning a new class. If I'm playing on my main class I form a FC party. When I'm practicing a new class - DF. We can all read guides and 'here's the rotation' posts but until you do it a few times it won't be perfect. And don't try to tell me that it's realistic to learn the end game rotations while fate grinding the class to 50.

Try teaching a bit if you get in this situation. And 'USE MAGE BALLAD YOU NOOB' is not a valid way of teaching anyone. I go out of my way to help and make other players comfortable when using DF. Too many people seem to take out way too much aggression in a game that's supposed to be enjoyable.

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Originally Posted by harkinate

Dear OP,

There are a lot of tanks for WP Speedruns who don't have these issues. You just labeled yourself as a bad.

Sincerely,
Everyone.

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I'll co sign this.

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Originally Posted by AvonRekaes

Grailer, first it's Dragoons, now it's Bards. Maybe you should start a FC of your own so you can craft the perfect speedrun static party for WP. Seems to be giving you a lot of trouble.

Y'know. Cause you're a bad tank that blames everyone else for your inadequacies.

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Don't be mad because you will get picked 2nd over a BRD for WP speed runs everytime.

And BRD shouldn't be mad when I /leave because they don't use MP song when everyone is low on mp .

Would you leave if I stopped using Flash ?

Check my level, I can't even do WP yet. I literally could not care about being "picked last", because I literally cannot be picked for it at all. I just think you're a bad person that does not communicate with parties and then blames them for not reading your mind.

For instance, instead of coming on these forums to post your <sarcasm>delightful little letter</sarcasm>, you could have actually taken the time to type to the bard in your party something encouraging and educating. Like:

"Hey, bard-dude, great job on that last fight. If I may make a suggestion, if you use Mage Ballad between pulls, we won't have to wait for my MP to fill up between fights and we can pick up our pace. Sound good? :D"

But no, you just come on here like a huge douche and complain about other people not doing what you want. And if you're worried about time, you could even have that entire helpful shpiel bound to a macro button!

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Originally Posted by Grailer

Would you leave if I stopped using Flash ?

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No. I'd say "Hey, Grailer, what's up with not using flash? Did your keybindings get messed up that last fight or something?".

Knowing you, though, you'd probably just instantly /leave when someone questioned your amazing prowess, or respond back in some passive aggressive or outright insulting manner (like "stfu why are you even a drg, drg sucks noob"), in which case, then I'd leave.

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Originally Posted by Grailer

Bards only purpose is to regen MP for WHM and BLM and PLD .

If they don't do that then might as well take DRG since they have better AOE dps than BRD .

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If not doing Foe w/ BLM then yeah, might as well bring another DPS, because if they aren't singing, they probably are only doing Single Target DPS as well >.>;

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Originally Posted by Grailer

Bards only purpose is to regen MP

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:\ oh no you didn't ...lol.
Ohh I see why the hate flows for you friend...good luck.

P.S. BLMs dont need MP from anyone as we regen our own. I haven't ever needed extra MP anyways and I have done WP a few times.

hmmm....

OP, you do realize PLD has their own way to refresh MP right? We're not really that defenseless that we require ballads. It helps though, but not necessarily needed.

Learn your rotation better, or use WAR for easier enmity management without worrying your mp. lol

Here's me playing WP for god knows how many times I wasted there, virtually already playing all jobs there. Have to admit, I still have bigger issue playing healer jobs. But that's another story. lol

Actually Mage's Ballad is the best song to sing in a WP SR if paired with a BLM.

With Mage's Ballad up BLM can spam Fire 3 > Flare > Blizzard 3 (repeat). This is the highest DPS rotation for AoE as BLM and makes up the difference of Foe Requiem's +10% and the -20% damage on BRD for its Ballad. It also facilitates Flash spam and Holy usage.

I was skeptical myself until I tried it out last night but it shaves a good 30s to 1minute off of each fight.

Edit: The reason is because after Flare BLM has 0mp and is in Astral Fire so no MP regeneration. The Ballad allows just enough MP to be restored to instantly use a Blizzard 3 without the need to use Transpose due to its 10s recast. So now you can spam those high damage Flares like crazy (the Fire 3 is there to increase its damage via AF after restoring your MP via UI), tank can keep hate easily with Flash and if he's geared appropriately the WHM can spam Holy and still have MP to cure.

After the fight Ballad is already applied as well which allows more efficient group MP restoral. Should only have Ballad off in WP SR when fighting a boss (use Requiem then) or if the entire party is full on MP but yours is low (in between pulls). You still regenerate MP with Ballad on outside of battle but it's slower than with it off which is why you want to take it off if the rest of the group is fine on MP.

While PLDs do have Riot Blade combo (and this is just my experience), if I use it, that means I'm not getting aggro, if I'm not constantly getting aggro, I lose it to DPS that go balls out as soon as Shield Lob connects. Flash is our only real AoE aggro tool (besides CoS). While doing my RoH combo, I have to spam flash since everyone and their mom is spamming AoEs, that drains my MP real fast. Even with Flash spam and RoH and rotating targets, there are some jobs that are getting so much aggro, if I stop my RoH combo to for a RB, there's a good chance I'll lose aggro.

I love these threads. I really do. /sarcasm

I've yet to see a thread like this from someone that's not a complete idiot. If you want your BRD to use Ballad, how about you don't run with other idiots like yourself and tell your BRD to use it. -_-

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With Mage's Ballad up BLM can spam Fire 3 > Flare > Blizzard 3 (repeat).

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lol

You never spam Fire 3. It's not only because of the MP cost; you get no Firestarter procs and the cast speed is horrible on Fire 3. It's not good DPS.

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Originally Posted by Crevox

lol

You never spam Fire 3. It's not only because of the MP cost; you get no Firestarter procs and the cast speed is horrible on Fire 3. It's not good DPS.

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I'm saying you spam that string of spells, not Fire 3. Cast Fire 3 once to get Astral Fire, cast Flare for big damage, Ballad restores just enough MP to use Blizzard 3, cast Blizzard 3, cast Fire 3, cast Flare, etc.

In doing this you're increasing the amount of damage per GCD (233) as opposed to using Requiem and the "usual" AoE combo you see people using (~197 without or ~225 iirc with Requiem). It's super easy to maintain this combo (it's only 3 spells) and allows for the tank to spam Flash to no end and allows the WHM to Holy in between cures and never worry about MP. The 20% hit to the BRD is moot in comparison to the benefits.

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Originally Posted by Grailer

Dear Bards ,

Mages Ballad 30 3.00s 2.50s Free 25y 0y
Refreshes MP of all nearby party members while lowering own damage dealt by 20%. MP is drained while singing.


Use it or find a new tank for WP run.


Yours sincerely , your flash spamming speed running WP tank.

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Dear Flash Spamming Speed Running WP Tank,

Please don't tell me how to play my class. A good Bard knows how to flow from Foe Requiem to Mages Ballad when needed. So if you will let me do my job I will let you do yours and we will have no issues.

Yours sincerely, A Bard who likes to help support his group.

Dear tanks

your mana pool is not important to us.

Bards.

Well as a newlie turned blm from PLD, it may help other classes but blm it pretty much just takes seconds to replenish mp.
Not to mention if it does in fact allow more spamming of Fire would it not be a bad thing in some cases? It is very easy to get more agro then tanks (Archers can easily get agro as well). I say let bards choose if/when to use Mages Ballad

Learn to conserve and refill your mana better.

Foe Requiem is a much better spell to use on Speed Runs.

PS: If you do not have threat on a pack of mobs after 10 flashes under teh the Fight or Flight buff then i dunno, maybe time to find a new vocation.

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Originally Posted by Grailer

Bards only purpose is to regen MP for WHM and BLM and PLD .

If they don't do that then might as well take DRG since they have better AOE dps than BRD .

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But in your earlier post (here) you said that DRGs and MNKs were all but complete trash in speed runs. Then the community decided to sh*t all over your completely unfounded claims.

I'm seeing a trend here.

What happen to your Riot Blade rotation? Are you a Relic Tank while the rest are Relic +1 DPS? I don't even need to spam flash until my mana is dried just to keep aggro from everyone else. Heck, spamming flash is not even a good idea. All you need to do are Flash-Circle-FastBlade-Flash-Riot Blade-Flash-Fast Blade-Flash-(repeat) and I would find it hard to believe you will need to wait for your mana to Regen, even without a Bard.

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Originally Posted by Darkstarz

Learn to conserve and refill your mana better.

Foe Requiem is a much better spell to use on Speed Runs.

PS: If you do not have threat on a pack of mobs after 10 flashes under teh the Fight or Flight buff then i dunno, maybe time to find a new vocation.

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I second this. Most experienced tanks actually often asked me to do requiem instead of ballad. Combined with RoH, it delivers quite devastating result.

As for blm rotation, normally fire 3 has longer cast time. But try this: fire3-flare-(that blm skill that switch umbral, forgot the name)-1 or 2 bliz2, then repeat. For some reason, fire3 after 1st rotation got faster cast time.

Foe does not decrease Bards dps, Mana song does.

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Originally Posted by Darkstarz

Foe Requiem is a much better spell to use on Speed Runs.

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It's really not, shaving 30 seconds off per fight in a speed run using Ballad was all it took for me to see it was better. We were trying it both ways, standard first with Requiem and then Fire3 > Flare > Bliz3 with Ballad and the difference was very noticeable. I suggest trying it. With this increased DPGCD the BLM generates even more enmity so the Ballad also helps keep the tank Flash-ready. Ballad also allows the WHM to Holy whenever possible with no concern for MP and there is little to no downtime to replenish MP between fights as Ballad is already up.

Edit: Though obviously for boss fights Requiem is the song of choice.

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Originally Posted by Marzapan

Foe does not decrease Bards dps, Mana song does.

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Flare spam makes up the difference in BRD's damage reduction and produces more DPGCD than the 15% damage boost from Requiem would give using the "standard" rotation.

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Originally Posted by MartaDemireux

It's really not, shaving 30 seconds off per fight in a speed run using Ballad was all it took for me to see it was better. We were trying it both ways, standard first with Requiem and then Fire3 > Flare > Bliz3 with Ballad and the difference was very noticeable. I suggest trying it. With this increased DPGCD the BLM generates even more enmity so the Ballad also helps keep the tank Flash-ready. Ballad also allows the WHM to Holy whenever possible with no concern for MP and there is little to no downtime to replenish MP between fights as Ballad is already up.

Edit: Though obviously for boss fights Requiem is the song of choice.

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I think your math is off - trash pulls in WP last less than a minute, shaving off 30s per fight would cut the time at least in half and I guarantee you that it doesn't happen.

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Originally Posted by Zellata

I think your math is off - trash pulls in WP last less than a minute, shaving off 30s per fight would cut the time at least in half and I guarantee you that it doesn't happen.

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No it's about right. WHM wasn't Holying because PLD was of the mindset that its a waste to +1 relic shield (he was taking a lot of damage), BLM had unmelded crafted accessories, I was in DL outside of AF+1 body and hero ring. Each fight took at least a minute and a half to two minutes, about 30 seconds less with the Flare spam. I judged by my Internal Release timer.

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Originally Posted by Speck

Try teaching a bit if you get in this situation. And 'USE MAGE BALLAD YOU NOOB' is not a valid way of teaching anyone.

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I agree a polite, fair and mature approach will get you much further in this game than emo teen rage but some poeple you just can't reach in my experience. While farming Garuda HM the WHM in my party politely asked for Ballad and got blasted with "BARD BUFFS ARE FOR BARD ONLY, IF YOU WANT THEM LEVEL THE GOD DAMN JOB YOURSELF" before the bard promtly left, calling an end to the instance for everyone. I agree with everything you say don't get me wrong but man, constructive criticism is an art form on any online game not just MMO's and it has a nasty habit of blowing up in your face.

What if I just enjoy playing a bard, I mean, just for fun? Why should my character's actions dictate how much fun you can have? Fortunately, I do not let that happen to me. Heck, I'm almost level 50 on just one job, and only halfway through the game's main scenario quests. Don't even ask me about side quests. It's great to know that no matter what, no one can tell me I am doing it wrong because I'm having fun. Then again, maybe I am just a "noob". By the way, does anyone want to help me with Titan (first time through, of course) tomorrow night after I put my kids to bed?

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Originally Posted by Montgraves

But in your earlier post (here) you said that DRGs and MNKs were all but complete trash in speed runs. Then the community decided to sh*t all over your completely unfounded claims.

I'm seeing a trend here.

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Everyone knows DRG and MNKS aren't good for speed runs compared to BLM .

Anyways I am levelling a Bard at the moment because then I can show how it should be done . Better than having to leave DF groups all the time because the bard is fail .

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Originally Posted by MartaDemireux

It's really not, shaving 30 seconds off per fight in a speed run using Ballad was all it took for me to see it was better. We were trying it both ways, standard first with Requiem and then Fire3 > Flare > Bliz3 with Ballad and the difference was very noticeable. I suggest trying it. With this increased DPGCD the BLM generates even more enmity so the Ballad also helps keep the tank Flash-ready. Ballad also allows the WHM to Holy whenever possible with no concern for MP and there is little to no downtime to replenish MP between fights as Ballad is already up.

Edit: Though obviously for boss fights Requiem is the song of choice.


Flare spam makes up the difference in BRD's damage reduction and produces more DPGCD than the 15% damage boost from Requiem would give using the "standard" rotation.

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Foe is a 10% debuff, not 15%...