When is better to AoE trash pulls?

Leveling in dungeons (everything upto Qarn so far), when is it better to focus on a single target and when is it better to AoE, or damage multiple targets (for example put DoTs on all targets)?

My main is Whm, but I'm leveling all DoM. Generally, as either Whm of Thm I prefer to focus on a single target, and sleep the others, but some other players spam AoE and/or DoT everything up.

I understand it's going to depend on group composition, and the trash pack, but;

When does it make sense to AOE trah packs?
Is it significantly better DPS for that class/job?
Is it better DPS for the party (if the healer can't dps because he's healing more is the party dps actually better)?


I really enjoy leveling in dungeons. Obviously I'm leveling slowly, but I intend to continue to just follow the main quest, class/job quests, and use duty finder to level.

I am still fairly new but i tend to put adds to sleep to make it easier for the tank. So if tank marks 1, 2, 3 as blm i will use thunder on target 2 and then sleep, same goes for other targets.
I guess instances if the group is overwhelmed by enemies just use aoe damage.
Problem with using aoe is if targets are not taken down quickly agro will all be towards you and can cause a wipe.
Happened to me when i got too confident, lol
Also to me i actually prefer if healer just focuses on healing tank or other dps that may need it as i have cure abilities as blm
I am sure more experienced players will also way in

Humm ... at lower levels tanks have fewer effective AOE tools and/or suck, so CC (sleep) is a valid choice and is generally a good approach for stable Duty Finder groups.

At higher levels, it's irrelevant and you should basically AOE everything always (or tab-dot when there's only 2-3 mobs depending on your class), unless the tank sucks.

It depends on the class, but for BLM it's always better to AoE once you get 3+ mobs.


Whether or not to AoE is up to your judgement. If you're with a weak tank, I would sleep and single target.

In lower dungeons (and even new tanks at 50) don't understand the plan for AoE. They need to flash+ overpower or w/e AoE hate move they can as fast and often as possible until everything is dead.


Realize that if your tank isn't up to the challenge it's always better to go back down to single target then to cause a stressful situation. I have all classes 50 and that's my opinion.

It´s not as dependant on the dd but the tank. Can the tank hold the aggro and the healer is able to keep him up AoE is never a bad choice. Often it´s the better choice to focus down a threat though.

Test it the ini´s you are joining. 3-4 cd´s singletarget then aoe. If he holds tha aggro after 2-3 groups you will be fine and may drop the singletarget cd´s. If not watch it 2-3 Groups and adept if the tank can´t adept.

Basically what OrionInerghem and Sinaloa were saying. It all comes down to Group Comp/Players. When I tank I will look at my group and decide if I'm going to do big AoE pulls or mark a target for them to burn down and do chain pulls. If I see 2 Black Mage/Bard/Summoner then I am for sure doing AoE pulls, but if a Dragoon/Monk is in the mix then I might do chain pulls.

AoE DPS is always going to be inflated and higher then that of Single Target.... But if you have 2 high AoE DPS Jobs, then yes it will be faster. However if you have a mix group then it really just comes down to how geared you guys are for what is faster. If you have a super geared Monk then probably Chain Pulling is faster then AoE.

I've had no troubles as a White Mage being able to keep a tank alive on a 3+ pull while healing them and DPSing the mobs, however for the few runs I have done where we CC mobs and I'm basically in Cleric Stance all the time, my overall time has been slower by 7+ minutes.

I think I'll just have to start asking my goups what they want to do. Communication in DF groups is really poor :/

I guess at least now I know it may be worthwhile... I didn't think it would be worth asking my group unless I was sure it was a valid approach.

Honestly, I wouldn't AoE in low-leveled dungeons. Most tanks just don't know how or don't want to hold group aggro, so its usually a Flash/Overpower or two and that's all they do.

Leveling SCH...I've lost count on how many times I've taken aggro from CS DoT-ing and Bane-ing everything. A SCH...taking aggro...

Time spent casting sleep is time that could be spent dpsing. I'm also fairly sure you can't build threat on stuff that's asleep even with Flash, but could probably test it more extensively. Reason enough for me to not use it unless we actually need to lower the incoming damage (aka, almost never).

Unless the healer is extremely undergeared and requests it (or if the healer requests CC in general to lighten their healing load I'll try to respect their request) or spends their extra time dpsing, as a tank I'll just wake stuff up if I have a THM/BLM spamming sleep when I didn't mark for it (can't remember the last time I did - Stone Vigil's 4 pull, probably).

If the tank is weak at multi-target threat than sure, sleep stuff as it's just gonna run around otherwise... but you won't really be using any damaging aoe moves with such a tank anyway.

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Originally Posted by Vortok

I'm also fairly sure you can't build threat on stuff that's asleep even with Flash, but could probably test it more extensively.

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Yes, Flash builds threat on sleeping targets. So do DoTs cast before sleep or Bane'd to a sleeping target (Bane does NOT wake sleeping targets up, BTW)

Disregarding other factors like tank hate or if a specific target needs to die much faster than the others, and going off pure efficiency for the DPSer, generally its best to single target until 4 mobs as a physical DPS, at which once there's 4 mobs the damage/TP/time ratio makes AOE more efficient. For casters, its 3.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Simaril

I think I'll just have to start asking my goups what they want to do. Communication in DF groups is really poor :/

I guess at least now I know it may be worthwhile... I didn't think it would be worth asking my group unless I was sure it was a valid approach.

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AoE damage matters more with content beginning at Castrum Meridianum in my opinion, once you get to level 50 dungeons tanks can out gear the instance and that makes AoE trash killing much more effecient/possible. Even when I sync down to level 49 dungeons like Aurum Vale I revert back to sleeping and single target killing. Like you said it's probably best to ask the party what they want but my default stance would be to sleep until CM.

As for DoTing multiple targets it pays off nicely for BLM, you get more thunder proc's on top of the DoT so it's well worth doing, it's usually best if you're fighting about 1-4 targets and not sleeping them, any more than that, like in WP then you're better off going straight into AoE. If you're sleeping mobs then you'll be doing it for a reason, to cut down damage on the tank so I don't try to tag them with DoT first as sleeping mobs promtly is more important.

I usually just use a thunder>sleep on targets and then focus on one. Thing is from what i have seen so far is if i try to aoe groups of enemies i end up having all the agro and in turn have to start healing myself.
I know Archer you get an ability to reduce hate but have found leveling Archer very boring.
So 3 or more targets it is best to just aoe? Like say Ice2>Ice2>Fire3

1-3 mobs (single target rotation), 4 + (Aoe rotation)

When I play BLM, I always cast sleep on the mobs right after the pull, so it would reduce the damage on the tank and give healer some time to catch up the HP lose during the pull.