Had no idea it was my first time tanking T1

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uhm

care to explain from A to Z on why and why?

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Originally Posted by Denver_Max

I was OT and as soon as Cacedeus split i would pull it to where i was supposed to but WHM ALWAYS managed to get aggro back. also Eos would steal my aggro too. it was annoying.

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in T1 boss, is best to always allows your self to have Rage of Halone combo activated before the split.

save my provoke incase of shit happen like that and make sure to take the hate back as fast as i could, normally i would pop off my defensive skills before it split so that i wont get hit hard by the snake.

If your group is having trouble at the split, there are two solutions:

1) Have the main tank (who has already established aggro on the main snake) move the main snake to the other spot. Shouldn't have any aggro problems while kiting.
2) Keep the dps on the main snake instead of splitting them across two snakes and have them all switch over when main snake is low.

Generally, if it gets to the point where the DDs (or god forbid the healers) have to slow down to let the tank gain aggro, something has gone wrong along the line. Be it gear or a skill issue (or even a simple mistake), that's likely the case in my experience.
Unless they were doing really silly stuff, like a healer spamming Medica II with the intent of pulling hate, then yeah.

Fight or Flight > Provoke > Shield Lob > CoS > Flash > Spirit's > Halone combo.

I hear some people like to pre build Halone combo before split which is probably the ideal way but what I posted above works for me every time.

Are you using the Fight or Flight and some defensive buff?

Believe me... I've had my share of grief trying to stop the OT from getting killed while he tries to pull completely unbuffed.

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Originally Posted by Denver_Max

I was OT and as soon as Cacedeus split i would pull it to where i was supposed to but WHM ALWAYS managed to get aggro back. also Eos would steal my aggro too. it was annoying.

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Technically that is your burden to bear.

As OT, you need to not only get a tremendous amount of hate on the add and pull it away, you need to do it very quickly so as to avoid them from merging again.

If the WHM pulls it off of you, you need to improve your pulling technique.

What is the sequence of your abilities in the initial pull?

The WHM's will always Take aggro initially and its up to the Tanks to have Pre-activated Rage of Halone combo's ready or Alternatively the WHM's Must use Shroud Right at split.
you should not need shroud for MP management or your doing too much healing anyway.

Well, if the healers are pulling aggro, I would think it would be the tanks job to pull the mob back. However, it seems there are a few ways this can go...

So Caduceus split and as the OT, you have to pick him up and move him. Naturally, all DPS would wait until you have the boss moved, but, you say the healers kept pulling him off of you. I can't imagine that the party was SO wounded that the healers needed to start spamming medica/succor. On the note of the fairy, scholars can't really control when she uses her abilities; it's either everything's on or everything's off... You could have in fact been trolled if the healers were just spamming their aoes at that point, but, then again, how were you trying to move Cad? Where you spamming shield lob and/or rage of halone along the way? Just because the DPS wait until you're in position, doesn't mean the healers can do the same.

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Originally Posted by Kimbles01

On the note of the fairy, scholars can't really control when she uses her abilities; it's either everything's on or everything's off...

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Steady.

/10carrots

What the OP is describing is

HE is losing Hate to the Split after (Cure I and Cure 2) on Main Tank. This Means he is pulling with Lob and running to spot while the WHM's are still building aggro with cure Thus it being ripped off him when more powerful cure's come not to mention Divine Seal cures and medica's and Medica II's.

You can Solve this by Having Rage of Halone combo up and flashing before you move.

You get a good 10 seconds of invulnerability time before adds will merge together

When I pull the split, I use Halone if I happen to have it ready, otherwise I just lob him all the way to the spot, haven't had a single issue yet. I even did this before I had any ilvl 90 gear, and was still using 3 Hoplite Pieces.

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Originally Posted by Denver_Max

this was after i had already used provoke. i had used literally every aggro combo/tactic there is in PLD's repertoire and still the healer was pulling aggro.

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You are aware provoke gives you a pittance of hate, right?

How about you list, to the best of your memory, the order of abilities you used?

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Originally Posted by Denver_Max

this was after i had already used provoke. i had used literally every aggro combo/tactic there is in PLD's repertoire and still the healer was pulling aggro.

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You must instruct you healers to take care as right at split Healers are always vulnerable to initial aggro and they must use Shroud of Saints Right as they split

I main tank this fight all the time my best advice is have the main tank move the boss let the ot pick up the one that stays use a flash so you don't have to worry about targeting which snake at first then unload a preloaded rage of harlon on the boss since mt should be moving his soon as the split happens you should be fine. Is it a dps loss sure is it a million times easier and you'll still get the kill regardless yeah. T1 is easier then titan lol

Ps. helps to have a spirits and circle up for initial threat if you can manage it

Ok you can take whatever I say with a grain of salt because I'm frankly just a mindless blm spamming 3 buttons, but I never really had problems with the healer pulling aggro from the tanks in our runs. The only things healers have to do really is make sure the tanks don't get bursted to death. Everyone else should be pretty healthy, maybe the guy pulling the slugs need heals but that's about it. If that's exactly what the healers are doing, it just -might- actually be your fault then, because that level of healing shouldn't just be a struggle with aggro.

Should've told MT to take the split to the other side so you could sit there and acquire aggro no problem.

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Originally Posted by Denver_Max

fight or flight > Rampart > shield lob > flash > cos > halone combo

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If that isn't enough, try opening with an un-charged rage of halone before the combo. it is 1/4 as potent, but in a pinch it is still a great deal of fast hate.
also feel free to CoS and flash before the snake pops, if its hp bar is visible. the enmity will still be registered.

As others have mentioned, the Main Tank should be the one moving his "original" to the other spot (I pull it to north as MT). MT already has established hate on his already so can drag it easily without losing hate along the way.

Off-tank should be able to just take over the split where it spawns and tank it there. Since you don't have to move it, it should be much easier to hold and build hate there. Easiest thing is to have both Spirits Within and Circle of Scorn ready on CD as the split time approaches. Neither of those moves are on GCD so both can be spammed immediately after you Provoke the split.

Also tell to your WHM or SCH to stop heal spam when the snake split. Usually they pull aggro because they keep healing when is not needed (usually WHMs do that), it has happened to me with my fairy too, when she cast embrace during the split part.

Simple solution is to have the MT move his add and you stay where you are, this is how we do it. He can move it easier as he already has established aggro.

Also for the quickest hate, use fast blade on the boss before he splits and then drop savage blade -> rage of Halone on the new add as he appears. Savage blade has a shorter animation than RoH, so start with it.

Wait, I thought the standard pug tank rotation was: provoke > halone > halone > halone > halone > halone > halone?

ppl Always want to blame someone, maybe you did make a mistake but so what we're all humans.

One thing I do as tank is Shield Lob > Provke > RoH Combo > Spirits Within > Circle of Scorn > Repeat with many uses of flashes in there. This allows me to keep aggro, but does fail when I get too many mobs on me. Haven't tested out Coils yet and would prefer to wait on that.

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Originally Posted by Reiterpallasch

Wait, I thought the standard pug tank rotation was: provoke > halone > halone > halone > halone > halone > halone?

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Spirits Within and Circle of Scorn can both be spammed immediately after provoke since they aren't on GCD. RoH has a pretty long animation and you can miss on hits, esp. against Caduceus which has decent evasion. You can always follow up Provoke > Spirits > Circle with Flash or RoH if you wish or just go into the full RoH combo.

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Originally Posted by AdamuKun322

One thing I do as tank is Shield Lob > Provke > RoH Combo > Spirits Within > Circle of Scorn > Repeat with many uses of flashes in there. This allows me to keep aggro, but does fail when I get too many mobs on me. Haven't tested out Coils yet and would prefer to wait on that.

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You generally don't want to start with Shield Lob on a mob that you're trying to pull hate off of someone. Shield Lob starts the GCD too so there would be a delay before you can use provoke and since provoke gives you [Top Hate]+1 anyway, there's really no reason to use Shield Lob unless you think Shield Lob alone will really allow you to pull hate without needing provoke. I believe the Caduceus split spawns with agro on someone else in the party already so your first move should be Provoke which would immediately gives you [Top Hate]+1 relative to your party members. Then *immediately* follow that up , preferably with Spirits and Circle of Scorn which are both basically instant and don't rely on GCD.

^
no, the newly spawned caduceus does not have any hate at that point, provoke will only let you tag it, you'll still get first aggro hate thats it.

OP, have the healer go into shroud mode during the split if they are giving you trouble.

it's probably a poorly timed cure 2 on main tank right after the split in which case if lob and flash fails you should be provoking to get it back.

If your healers are having trouble in turn 1 then they'll be having more trouble in turn 4.

i alway pre-ready Rage of Halone, do that, then Provoke -> Shield Lob to ensure the hate sticks, and bring it over to the other side while tossing Shield Lob.

Once the snakes split just flash then combo swap places with the MT he should take the first split(which has all the hate) to,the other side , so you don't have to waste time kiting instead of,building hate.

Anything after that is the healer/dps fault they need to have quelling strikes or pop shroud etc

Just have the add that spawns tanked in place where the original Caduceus was at the start. That way the MT can just move the original and the OT can take over the MT's spot. You won't have to worry about getting aggro and moving with it since the MT will already have full aggro on the original and can move easily with that one.

Watch videos from tank POV.

The MT hold the snake in one spot and when the split happens you don't have to do anything different, as you will still be prime threat on the original snake. The OT is then supposed to drag the snake you arent attacking to the other side. I usually just slap a label on the snake before the fight starts so there is no confusion.

He splits at around 85% health I believe? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Depending on the DPS of your group, a good gauge would be after 2 slime spawns. At this point, you need to switch to Shield Oath, and attack slowly. Try to build up a Halone combo before he splits - having Rage of Halone ready for the split. Once the split happens, use Provoke and immediately follow off with Rage of Halone. That should be enough to get the boss snake onto you. If he does run away initially, kite him with Shield Lob, don't be conservative about your TP.

For my group, the main tank pulls the main snake away, so it's a little easier on me. Consider that as an option.

I never use rage of halone for pull him.

I provoc + i throw my shield maybe 2 - 3 times, and then i begin to tank him. Very easy. You need maybe better stuff.

Sorry, your fault.. Your party was prob right. We all know it splits into around 66% health, that's when you should have rage of halone flashing on combo. If you can manage to just have it queued up and ready to use on the split you should be able to walk it about anywhere just b using flash.

^ Shield lob once. Your party lets you get a quick 1-2-3 rotation in and then you are locked on forever. Don't even bother with provoke in T1. T2 on the other hand, very useful.

Oh, and don't listen to everyone saying use provoke right away. Provoke simply puts you 1 'hate point' higher than the person that currently has the most hate. If you use provoke right away it's basically a wasted skill. Don't do that, you'll regret it!

OT supposed to stay on the spot and build hate, meanwhile MT moves to another spot.
On the other hand, you can use Hallowed Ground and ask your healer stop healing you after splitting, that way you won't lose aggro at all.

As a Warrior I have even fewer tools for building hate and dragging Cad away.
1: DO NOT get caught in the middle of a GCD, if this means you don't DPS for a few seconds o well
2: Flash ASAP. This will identify which snake you need to grab, one snake has full agro on the MT, the other has no set agro. Flash will let you pick up the add from your enemy list and start hate on you.
3: If you have Rage/Butchers Block hit that as you move through it. If you DO NOT have this preped, use shield lob as you start to move
4: If at any time you LOSE hate in the transition, use Provoke and immediately Shield Lob. You should be continuing to Lob until you have reached where you will be tanking it, then go immediately burn 1 defensive buff, and go into 2 rounds of enmity combo.

By the time you've reached the end of 4, you should have a successful split, now it's easy mode just making sure you're not standing on the wrong tile and are pointing hood swipe in a safe direction.