High folks I believe prioritizing stats in this order is best for whm
MND>>PIE=DET>whatever
Because piety not only gives you more mana . It also increases your MP/ticks in combat. The mp ticks seem to happen every 2.5 seconds?
Here is my results
With my current gear i have bis piety wise except for ring. This is mind allotment as well. I use mulled tea.
435 pie and 5032 mana
I have tested this and in combat i have 100mp/tick2.5
When i have 20 less piety. My mp/ticks was 97
in twintania its a 13minute fight. An extra 3mp/tick i would recover 936 mana from having an extra 3mp/tick alone.
This does not include the effect of having a larger mana pool.
Not been in a situation yet where i need the extra 10hp or so replacing piety with det would give me. But i have been in many situations where my mana has run dry , especially if i am not receiving ballad and if i am raising people.
Throughput is better for schs who can put that to use with bigger shields. Sch have no mana concerns in fights so they can sacrifice piety.
Piety best secondary stat for whm. Secondary effect of piety
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12-03-2013, 10:39 AMsharazisspecialPiety best secondary stat for whm. Secondary effect of piety
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12-03-2013, 11:10 AMZaft
That's fine if you're having MP issues, but so far there's nothing that has given me a problem yet. I'd rather take Thyrus +1 over my Allagan Cane until 2.1 (in which case it'll be superior because of the +DMG).
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12-03-2013, 11:13 AMsharazisspecialthyrus has less spell speed but more det. Tested and it is like 10-13hp difference between allagan cane and thyrus +1 on cure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaft
Every whm will have mp issues as whm if they are raising, dpsing or building limit break. Doing the most they can with their whm instead of just having long periods of inactivity. -
12-03-2013, 11:17 AMCelaeris
If you have more DET, you can cast more Cure I's instead of using Cure II's to top off the tank, and you also get more Freecure proc's for more mana free Cures. Piety helps if you overheal more and cast more Cure II's. Personally, I went with Det all the way, and can keep tanks up fine. Lastly, mana ticks are every 3 seconds, and if you want ~900 MP over a 13 minute fight, X-Ethers NQ give 420 MP and have a 5 min CD. Unless you're really running dry, the X-Ethers make up the difference in Piety. Also, mana song gives you 79 MP per tick (30s gives you almost as much mana back as your 20 piety), which can usually make up the difference. On my first Twintania kill, I had no issues with mana using Shroud on CD to keep my mana up (no Ballads were used, and I ended up with 1/2 my MP bar). From twister phase and onwards, it's not that healing intensive.
As for raising, we always have a SMN > SCH > WHM raise order, so I'm always last. I'm fairly sure you heal with a SCH, why not let him do the work. Also, Twintania is pretty tightly tuned, that if you lose someone early, you'll probably hit enrage, especially the damage penalty from weakness. -
12-03-2013, 11:18 AMAlkimi
Yeah even in Turn 5 I find the most MP intensive parts are actually the first 50%. Once it gets to twisters shroud alone should be fine. We just get a quick ballad during first set of divebombs and that's pretty much it unless shit goes wrong.
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12-03-2013, 11:26 AMsharazisspecialHow does your first point make sense? 1040 hp cure vs 1025 cure is the difference when having thyrus+1 and allagan cane. Even at max difference lowest cane and highest thyrus. You will have to cast another heal to get your tank full before death sentence. Healing fluctates too occasionally thyrus will do less then cane.Quote:
Originally Posted by Celaeris
And 3 of our wins we have beaten TT with 1-2 dps dying.
So its a choice you have make yourselves is 165mana, 800 extra mp in a 13 min fight vs 10-20hp on cure and cure 2
Well its better to 1/1 stuff then rely on everything to fall in place. Especially in duty finder. I dont think extra 20hp on cure will save me when i go oom from ressing or hesitate for the healer too. because i dont want to go oom. Or not dps as much since again more chance to oom.Quote:
that's pretty much it unless shit goes wrong
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12-03-2013, 11:38 AMVisRalis
I like stacking Piety as well at around 1/2 of my Mind.
With the MP cost scaling and general DF skill levels, the extra MP pool helps.
Its funny cuz... sometimes a derp party needs me to pull extra cures out of my butt.
And I do.
Thanks to pie.
^T_T^
I guess at end game I'll transition from being a beast of burden and streamline my stats.
If that's whats needed then anyways. -
12-03-2013, 11:44 AMsharazisspecialGear is generallyQuote:
Originally Posted by VisRalis
Pie + det or crit or speed
Imo pie+ det is the best gear. E.g allagan body,af2 legs,allagan earring
Crit+speed is the worst for whm . -
12-03-2013, 12:15 PMZaftThe problem here is you're saying "Every whm will have mp issues if the party is messing up."Quote:
Originally Posted by sharazisspecial
Again though, in the end it won't matter. 2.1 rolls around and we'll all be using Allagan Cane. -
12-03-2013, 12:49 PMCelaerisMy argument wasn't over the difference between Allagan vs Thyrus+1, it was over PIE vs other stats.For one, unless you're still using crafted gear, you don't have a choice on Piety except the weapon. Because the Allagan weapon is getting a ilevel boost, everyone will use Allagan if they have it, so the choice for BiS is moot. So my arguement is that I have mana to spare. 800 extra mana is fine if you end the fight with less than 800 MP, but I'm rarely having mana issues. If/When I do, I can still call for Ballad, or use an Ether. Hence, I don't see Piety as a great stat. Lastly, SoS doesn't scale with Piety, it scales with weapon damage. So since extra mana is useless, I'll take extra HP on cure or Spell speed.Quote:
Originally Posted by sharazisspecial
Also, on my Twintania kills players do die, but they die near the end, where the DPS loss is less significant. Still haven't had a clean clear, hoping for one tonight.
At this point, we overgear everythingin duty finder, so I disagree about needing extra stats for anything really. Remember Det affects damage too if you're DPSing, and so does spell speed.Quote:
Originally Posted by sharazisspecial
In the end it comes to preference, if you have enough MP to not have mana issues, I feel other stats are better, but if you prefer to have a bigger buffer in case you dip low, then Piety may be a good stat for you. The extra MP isn't worth that much, and only on twintania is the fight 13 minutes, most other fights are much shorter. -
12-03-2013, 06:37 PMAlkimiWill get right on that, 3 weeks left so 1/3 chance -_-. Unless the drop rate is broke, I see a lot of axes around..Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaft
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12-03-2013, 08:24 PMsharazisspecialSoS does scale with piety. I have tested myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Celaeris
Healing is easy in this game. Lax requirements mechanically.
A great healer can fix wipe situations. Thats were the "difficulty" of healing comes in. Piety is the best secondary stat for that. Extreme Primals soon should be as hard for healers as twintania maybe.
3/5 weapon drops we got were useless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alkimi
War weapon, 2 summoner books when we don't have either in our group.
2/5 weapons were whm cane and monk weapon.
Summoner books drops way too much in general. -
12-04-2013, 01:12 AMSwear_Bear
Just curious. Does this Pie+Det apply for SCH, too? Or is a completely different stat setup better? I'm inching my SCH main to Lv.50 and Endgame chaos, so I'd like to know as much about gearing as possible. This my 1st Lv.50 and I don't even know how materia works >.<
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12-04-2013, 01:32 AMsharazisspecial
Nah no way sch should avoid piety and spell speed
Crit and Det are king stats for Sch. (obviously you want the peice with highest mind)
Here are the reasons
Sch have no mana concerns . They have aetherflow every minute. Energy drain if needed. Free fairy heals , Free lustrate.
They scale poorly from spell speed. Lustrate, fairy not effected by it.
Sch is all about the OP shields . You want to augment these as much as possible. Det+crit both increase your sheild
Sch have 2 critical effect procs 1.Double crit shield on adloquium(1.5k heal=3kshield) 2. Fairy crits increase your casting speed.
Sch shields do not overheal like whm spells. So crit/det isn't wasted as much.
So i would say for
SCH Mnd>>CriT>DET>>Speed>PIE
WHM Mnd>>PIE=DET>Speed=Crit -
12-04-2013, 02:12 AMAirikay
SoS doesn't scale with Piety, SoS just ticks with regular regency. So larger mana pool means more natural regen.
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12-04-2013, 03:14 AMsharazisspecialYou are right after testingQuote:
Originally Posted by Airikay
PIE DET is the BIS pairing for whm . Thats allagan head, robe, AF2 pants Feet, allagan earring, ring, choker.Quote:
First off Fascinating discussion I am just starting to get geared and set up with end game I have quite a bit to go but love reading all this. Secondly what you just said, I think is the worst and I really hope SE has gotten complaints about this and that they maybe change this. We work really hard for a shot at getting our gear nothing is more disheartening then going through a long run and having gear that no one in the group even needs or has the class for...I am highly irritated about this. Ok off my Lalafell soup box resume the awesome debate.
Lets hope 2.1 has some more piety det peices to replace the icky spell speed and meh crit chance peices.
In 2.1 we need hands, feet , ring and bracelet. For a full det set. -
12-04-2013, 03:55 AMAphriniFirst off Fascinating discussion I am just starting to get geared and set up with end game I have quite a bit to go but love reading all this. Secondly what you just said, I think is the worst and I really hope SE has gotten complaints about this and that they maybe change this. We work really hard for a shot at getting our gear nothing is more disheartening then going through a long run and having gear that no one in the group even needs or has the class for...I am highly irritated about this. Ok off my Lalafell soup box resume the awesome debate.Quote:
Originally Posted by sharazisspecial