FF Parsers, Are they really that Great?

Sooo, I'm a little new to the concept in general, but to my understanding, it's basically a tool to record how much dps is done on a specific target. Yes? No? Feel free to elaborate.

Anyways, while I can see how they can be useful, I feel like the readings need to be taken with a grain of salt. I think it is especially true for this game as there are no official parsers for the game and they typically are unable to accurately record DoTs.

But of course, while using it, you need run multiple tests to look for consistency and you need to factor in things like: Where there adds? Was the DPS dead at any point? If yes, for how long? etc...

Again, just clarifying that I got this right.

Sooo, I've run into a couple people who use parsers RELIGIOUSLY. And not only that, that bash people hardcore when their numbers are off. "I'm a Paladin and I had a higher score than your Monk!"

Now, I'm looking at the dps my cookie-cutter DL Relic Paladin does (roughly 150-300ish per skill) and then comparing that to the dps my less-than full DL Relic Monk does (300+ with the exception of one or two skills), and the numbers just don't add up. The only way a Paladin would out-dps a Monk would be from the Monk not hitting the target as often, either from death or a lot of adds; there is a significant gear gap; or the Monk is awful at positioning and rotations.

But Monk is a poor example. I've seen similar complaints of this towards Black Mage and Bard! Please, my Bard averages a 250-300 per Heavy Shot alone (can't say much for Blm as I don't have one at that lvl. But pretty sure their dps is powerful). So even if the Bard didn't have his rotations down, he'd still land a lot more dps than the Paladin.

But I digress. Obviously, this is an extreme example of how not to use a parser. But I did want to get more insight on how these things work so that the next time someone comes to me with a biased report, I better explain what the score means for them.

Honestly, I don't see what the big point behind parsers even is. So long as the monster dies, what does it matter if you weren't pulling out the huge numbers?

http://radgeek.com/gt/2006/04/28/ItM...ingMoreFun.png

Ah, Bill Watterson. A genius way ahead of his time.

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Originally Posted by DarkStar

Honestly, I don't see what the big point behind parsers even is. So long as the monster dies, what does it matter if you weren't pulling out the huge numbers?

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I sort of agree...I think it's good to use for the general spectrum as to how the team is doing. But I don't think it's fair to compare different classes with the tool and I don't think specific scores are justifiable, at least not with how parsers are currently.

(btw, your character's name makes me want to cuddle *purr* ;) )

Parsers are to see which classes are worth bringing along and to see who isn't pulling their weight. It helped one of my raid leaders figure out one of our members was doing something wrong in rotation.

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Originally Posted by Karti

Sooo, I'm a little new to the concept in general, but to my understanding, it's basically a tool to record how much dps is done on a specific target. Yes? No? Feel free to elaborate.
...
Now, I'm looking at the dps my cookie-cutter DL Relic Paladin does (roughly 150-300ish per skill) and then comparing that to the dps my less-than full DL Relic Monk does (300+ with the exception of one or two skills), and the numbers just don't add up. The only way a Paladin would out-dps a Monk would be from the Monk not hitting the target as often, either from death or a lot of adds; there is a significant gear gap; or the Monk is awful at positioning and rotations.
...

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Yes, that's about the idea, it measures your dps, and your parties. It, depending on the parser, will also track variables such as crit rate, accuracy, avg. damage per attack/skill, etc.
With good parsers it will keep track of every individuals up-time, meaning that if there are gaps in damage done by them (i.e. death) it will pause the timer for that individual, that way dps losses tracked are minimized if a person is dead. This isn't perfect, but it helps.

A large part of the use of parses is to see if you are doing optimal damage for your class/job/role, if you and a second brd are in equal(ish) gear and the other bard is hitting 150 dps and your at 110 then you can see that your lagging behind, not a bad idea asking what they are doing differently. This is more a concern for content where speed of kills means something significant.

The section there, you seem to be counting your damage per hit, that is not your dps, damage per skill/hit fails to account for many factors. Though your absolutely right, if a mnk is being out dps'd by a pld something is terribly wrong. If anyone is being out dps'd by a pld, other than another pld, something is terribly wrong.

I personally wouldn't bash someone for being off, and I don't parse religiously, but I certainly do point out if someone is lagging in a significant way: a mnk under 150 while another is breaking 200, a brd being out-parsed by a war, etc. Pointing these things out can help your party, assuming you don't take the douchey bashing approach ;)

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Originally Posted by Enfarious

skip

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Thank you, this was very informative and helpful. Likiiiinng.....now.

Um, to clarify. Yes I was pointing out specific hit damage, but I more or less showing how significant the gap is between tank damage and dps. Over time, the tank damage would fall far behind because of how much lower its damage is. Which is the summary of my rant lol. I most certainly wouldn't watch somebody's individual skills to rate their efficiency! This person, however, does claim to out-dps others as a Paladin on a regular basis. Do you think the parser is off or is he just full of it?

But it sounds like a big part of the confusion lies on whether you have a decent parser or not. Do you have any recommendations?

ACT, FFXIV-APP, and LogRep are all equally accurate now. I've been told ACT has some easy reports it generates

Parsers for this game aren't yet good, since there is no way to parse DoTs. They just throw RNG numbers in the calculation.

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Originally Posted by Karti

Thank you, this was very informative and helpful. Likiiiinng.....now.

Um, to clarify. Yes I was pointing out specific hit damage, but I more or less showing how significant the gap is between tank damage and dps. Over time, the tank damage would fall far behind because of how much lower its damage is. Which is the summary of my rant lol. I most certainly wouldn't watch somebody's individual skills to rate their efficiency! This person, however, does claim to out-dps others as a Paladin on a regular basis. Do you think the parser is off or is he just full of it?

But it sounds like a big part of the confusion lies on whether you have a decent parser or not. Do you have any recommendations?

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On my Warrior (Out gearing MANY players) I end up dealing the most damage on my PUG runs, unless I find a more closely geared Damage Dealer. (Relic +1 and 3+ pieces of iLvL 90 gear)

I do out damage every class EXCEPT Black Mages in Full Darklight and Relic (Not +1) Consistantly. Monk is almost even with me, but everything else, my gear just tramples their numbers.
I use my Parser specifically to help others who I notice are lagging behind a little too much. One scenario I recall, a Newly 50 Black Mage was dealing less damage than another newly 50 Summoner, and I was sadly.. dealing more damage than both of them put together as the tank of AK.
So I spoke with the Black Mage, and helped him with his rotation, and he literally in 1 fight, tripled his damage output.
The Summoner was a last cause though, stubborn, and angry. =(

So it's possible for your Paladin (friend?) to be telling the truth, IF he was only grouping with fresh AF1 Geared people, but as soon as you are in full AK gear, and a Primal weapon, (Garuda's) Paladins tend to get left in the dust quite easily., even with heir +1.

I recommend playing around with FFXIV-APP, it's easy to use.

Parsers can't detect any DOT Crits (Yes, you can crit DOTs) NOR any AOE hotspots (IE Shadow Flare and Flaming Arrow). I'm not sure if they parse DOTs on multiple mobs well or not. Regardless it seems EVERY parser has the same issues regarding this stuff assuming they don't run into bugs in other areas.

Are Parsers even allowed ? Is this the start of the mod door opening up for this game or players breaking the EULA ? I don't care either way but if they allow a parser then I hope they allow mods for the lazy people with the hunting logs.

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Originally Posted by DarkStar

Honestly, I don't see what the big point behind parsers even is. So long as the monster dies, what does it matter if you weren't pulling out the huge numbers?

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Its for Self improvement the key selling point of a parser

also its to identify room for improvements to the raid when the monster doesn't die