**Titan Hardmode** : Rework

Titan is appropriately difficult, but for all the wrong reasons.

(1) Introduce a Titan Hardmore learning dungeon:
players must make it past this stage before moving on to the fight we now have
this dungeon will have damage reduced and decreased health, to ensure parties make it further into the fight.
(2) Try to assist with the effects of server lag.
it is really frustrating to see so many people negatively affected by barely being caught in weight of the land or landslide, especially casting classes. I have never experienced the consistent lag with other games than I have with this one.
ideas could be to increase the casting time of these abilities or make the radius slightly smaller. Game play should never be adversely affected by system instability and performance issues. Appropriately tuned experiences should challenge players with aspects of game play they have control over!

I think the only issue is nothing more than the lag part. However I've seen Japanese players fall of 50 times more than myself, so there's also skill involved (by that I mean move the frick away the second you see it)

Plenty of parties have beaten Titan HM and for those who havn't, are due to lag or they ... suck... But, let's say lag.

In which case they're putting a band aid on the lag thing by making the server tick under .3 (no number was mentioned) for 'high level dungeons and primals'

Could adjust the damage from weight of the land based on your distance from the center. Would allow those with latency issues to increase their chance of survival so long as they actually attempt to get out.

The server delay is really truly a good thing...it makes the fight more challenging and it most certainly can be adapted to. Those who experience this are already playing Titan at a higher difficulty level than those who don't. I really wish Square wasn't fixing this...Think of it this way. You have two DMC/Kingdom Hearts style games. One of them has fights that force you to be something of a combat clairvoyant to dodge, parry, and riposte your way to victory. The other has predictable enemies broadcasting their attacks and giving you ample time to react. Which would you rather play?

The "lag" gives FF14 the chance to be the former for those of us lucky enough to experience it. Imagine if Titan used his attacks randomly. You would have to intuit what you expect him to use and wedge in your own actions around those expectations and what actually follows. I really wish people could see this for the blessing it is...Square may have made the first MMO with truly twitch gameplay. For those who don't experience the delay, they can react to the attack, but those of us who experience the delay have the privilege of playing a game, as alluded to before, where we have to dodge an attack before it happens.

I don't understand why you would want to ruin the fight by removing the lag. So you can get a relic, go to BC, get some more pixels with some higher numbers? Don't look at Titan HM as some means to an end...it is the crown jewel of the game right now.

Just one more thing...The kid in this video. Is he shouting angrily or laughing happily? Come on, let's not mess with a good thing.

This fight does not need to be nerfed. Watch videos. Learn his attack pattern and practice, practice, practice. You want practice mode? It's called duty finder. /rant off

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pz4V...e_gdata_player

Stomps(Tumult)
Plumes(Weight of the Land)

Phase 5

Mountain Buster > Stomp > Plume > Bombs w/Landslide > Mountain Buster > Plume > Rock > Landslide (Repeat)

(Titan's downward swing of his arm actually tells you when to start running for the bomb part)

Hope this helps you.

Phase 1-4 you shouldn't be getting hit anyway except by stomps(tumult)

Just have it in your head always that "I might have to start running after a Stomp or Landslide"

Should get you through it ok. It's just memorisation and practice, even with latency. It shouldn't be that way but it is.

I had to get battleping to slightly enhance my chances though. Google it.

Good luck.

When I went to fight titian for my relic that I got watching it lying on the ground I got away from the plumes by 3 yams and I still got hit WHY ?

I dont know why so many people have essue with this fight. Taking lag aside you should only get hit my tumult. With lag, since so many people said they get hit because of lag; one Way of the land should not kill you with full Hp, Landslide shouldn't knock you off if you stand close to titan and titan is in the edge, you can just stand directly in his back and you should not fall off and one bomb should not kill you either. So most of the stuff that kill people is because bad placement on your fault or a combination of attacks. Dont blame only the lag because your couldn't win.

They said they're going to be adjusting the positional update time for instances in 2.1. Short of that, the only thing I wish they'd do is maybe increase the cast time for Weight of the Land by another .5 to 1 second. Everything else I feel is ok.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Orophin

They said they're going to be adjusting the positional update time for instances in 2.1. Short of that, the only thing I wish they'd do is maybe increase the cast time for Weight of the Land by another .5 to 1 second. Everything else I feel is ok.

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Yeah I agree with this. But not as high as .5~1 second.

If people are claiming the .3 is too much (which I find ridiculous as I have 180ms; I think it's moreso the person's latency itself), then up the skill explosion another .3 more.
If the positional fix for higher dungeons / primals doesn't suffice, this could be another band aid to fixing it.

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Originally Posted by Husband

Just have it in your head always that "I might have to start running after a Stomp or Landslide"

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1 - If latency was only one way, sure. Its not. The server never gets the info from me that I DID move. If the server is never told I moved, I'm still pretty dead.

2 - The just move when, and the "skill delay adds challenge" also only float when latency is constant. So if I were at a long distance from the servers, then that is a constant I could adjust for with skill and internal timing. When lag is due to route congestion, it is spiky.

If I don't see the telegraph and move strictly based on a count off of his abilities timing (yes I've now memorized and count down timing between moves too - but I have to precast heals so that's expected) ... sometimes it fails. Also, that method doesn't account for a couple of the bomb patterns, which you need to see, to know where to move next. Invisible plumes are sometimes doable, just run where there is no one, since they only spawn under people. Invisible bombs not as much. But that still assumes the lag spikes let the info back to the server in a timely fashion.

Yes, I have registry based latency fix too, and usually have quite decent latency. But during peak hours my route path congests, and my ISP shapes. Now I won't run this fight without using the resource monitor and verifying my latency is not spiking above 0.3 seconds regularly before we go in. If it is spiking above that, there is really no point in my bothering. Spikes of latency are not manageable in this fight. Static latency is ...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cryvil

The server delay is really truly a good thing...it makes the fight more challenging and it most certainly can be adapted to. Those who experience this are already playing Titan at a higher difficulty level than those who don't. I really wish Square wasn't fixing this...Think of it this way. You have two DMC/Kingdom Hearts style games. One of them has fights that force you to be something of a combat clairvoyant to dodge, parry, and riposte your way to victory. The other has predictable enemies broadcasting their attacks and giving you ample time to react. Which would you rather play?

The "lag" gives FF14 the chance to be the former for those of us lucky enough to experience it. Imagine if Titan used his attacks randomly. You would have to intuit what you expect him to use and wedge in your own actions around those expectations and what actually follows. I really wish people could see this for the blessing it is...Square may have made the first MMO with truly twitch gameplay. For those who don't experience the delay, they can react to the attack, but those of us who experience the delay have the privilege of playing a game, as alluded to before, where we have to dodge an attack before it happens.

I don't understand why you would want to ruin the fight by removing the lag. So you can get a relic, go to BC, get some more pixels with some higher numbers? Don't look at Titan HM as some means to an end...it is the crown jewel of the game right now.

Just one more thing...The kid in this video. Is he shouting angrily or laughing happily? Come on, let's not mess with a good thing.

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Im not sure what youre talking about. Enemies in BOTH Kingdom Hearts and Devil May Cry broadcast their attacks very clearly. Its just a matter of noticing it and reacting. Just in games like Devil May Cry there's often a shorter reaction time than games like Kingdom Hearts.

I would rather not play any game in which lag was the determining factor of difficulty. Because even if you behave properly, you could still easily fail.

What youre describing isnt skill, its luck. And thats not good game design. It results in sloppy, disjointed gameplay which people don't want to experience. This would be like playing Kingdom Hearts with nothing but ranged attacks and dodge roll, because why do anything else when anything can hit you at any time with no real way of accounting for it in a skill based playstyle.

If you want something less scripted, play PvP when it's released. It will give you an opponent you cant easily time, and if you do misstep it isnt likely to result in a 1shot, just in you possibly losing advantage.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cryvil

The server delay is really truly a good thing...it makes the fight more challenging and it most certainly can be adapted to.

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I understand what you say, I love challenges (like Yiazmat at lv60 or Terra's Lingering Sentiment without Berserk passive skill), but latency is really a problem. If you can deal with it and have a good play, then it's fun, but when the action hits you before the graphics, or when you don't have the time to dodge an aoe even runnin from the start, then it's really annoying.
I want challenges, so I play undergeared, I finished FFXII's main story at lv40. This is real challenge.

Once you learn this, and any other fight I've done so far up to coil turn 4, you should be pre-moving or know exactly when you need to move or be going somewhere. Every fight is a pattern, and never really goes off that pattern. Pretty simple memorization. You know when its coming, even if you have lag.

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Originally Posted by YanDere

I understand what you say, I love challenges (like Yiazmat at lv60 or Terra's Lingering Sentiment without Berserk passive skill), but latency is really a problem. If you can deal with it and have a good play, then it's fun, but when the action hits you before the graphics, or when you don't have the time to dodge an aoe even runnin from the start, then it's really annoying.
I want challenges, so I play undergeared, I finished FFXII's main story at lv40. This is real challenge.

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Ya, I enjoy a challenge as much as anyone else, but FF12's license board was so broken that it would be difficult to make that game difficult. Maybe if we get the International Job system one. That's not to try to downplay it.

I did a no-sploit speed run of FF7 once, beat it in 16 hours at level 32. I think... dont really remember the level. That was rough.

Nah, tho. If you really want something difficult, go for Fire Emblem on a higher setting, or the original Hoshigami. There's no need to intentionally handicap yourself in order to get a challenge. Or just play the original NES Ninja Gaiden.

Edit: Thinking about it tho, Ninja Gaiden is just as scripted as any encounter in an MMO, and the real difficulty in those older console games was struggling with the controls, which basically amounts to latency issues. Except with the final boss in Ninja Gaiden. Theres some randomness there.

Also, meant to include Final Fantasy Tactics 1.3. Great challenge there that is actually weighted heavily in skill, as opposed to RNG. A strong understanding of the mechanics will soundly outpace luck.

There is no need for a learning fight. You learn this fight by doing it. Yes, you are going to wipe, just accept it. Every hard mode fight I have entered, I assumed I was going to die the first few times. If I didn't, it was a pleasant surprise. When I did, I learned and watched those that were better than me. There are parts of the game that are going to be hard. That is the point of a game, to be fun and challenging. SE doesn't need to hold your hand through the whole game. They have given you everything you need to do the fights with a few exceptions, and Titan is not one of the exceptions. It is up to you to use what they have given you.

yeah blame more latency. Cant be hard to dodge Weight of Land. Just move ur ass asap instead standing there 0.3 seconds before realisiering u have to move ... its always the same

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Originally Posted by civilpaw

Ya, I enjoy a challenge as much as anyone else, but FF12's license board was so broken that it would be difficult to make that game difficult. Maybe if we get the International Job system one.

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I found IZJS far easier than original FFXII.
Yiazmat is really challenging if you do it at low level.

Thank you for your help, what you said was really helpful!

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Originally Posted by KairaZ

yeah blame more latency. Cant be hard to dodge Weight of Land. Just move ur ass asap instead standing there 0.3 seconds before realisiering u have to move ... its always the same

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I know right, acceptable latency is a crutch for bad players LOL!

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Originally Posted by YanDere

I found IZJS far easier than original FFXII.
Yiazmat is really challenging if you do it at low level.

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Ive been itching to play that game again, guess I should give it a try then.

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Originally Posted by civilpaw

Ive been itching to play that game again, guess I should give it a try then.

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I have spent 300+ hours on that game, don't think I'll pick it up again XD
OT: On FFIX I have 1500+ hours, but that's a beautiful game

Not sure if this thread was intended as a troll or not given point 1, though everyone else here seems to be taking this seriously.