Are people overlooking potions?

My friend on my raid team started talking about potions earlier. He made a good point. On a tough fight where every buff counts, or a dps race like turn 4, you want the most buffs/dps possible.

So what if everyone popped strength/intelligence HQ mega potions? Then the healers popped hq mega mind potions during high damage dealing enemies like dreadnoughts/caduceus at 5 stacks etc.

Whats everyones thoughts? I mean, I think for those 12-15 seconds, the dps would be absolutely ridiculous. You get a max of 49 pts I think? I experimented earlier with vitality. For hq mega vitality I think it was 20% (max 69). I sit at 484 vit at 6295 HP with food buff, and when i popped the potion, I was at 547 vitality with 7100 HP.

Imagine the damage the dps would do with that amount of a buff. If one person did it, maybe not much of a difference, but the whole team buffs on these hq mega potions, I think that would make a noticeable difference, especially for the toughest phases of the fight.

In my raid group it's common practice to pop potions when DPS is needed for a burn phase. Any good DPS should have a stock of Mega-Potions at their disposal.

Hell, I even pop one during each boss when I can in WP/AK. Some people think that's wasteful, but it's noticeable enough that I'll shell out the gil to speed up the run. Not much else to spend money on these days ...

Yes! Finally people understand! I've been singing this toon but no one chimes in!

Well I learned my lesson. I often see people claim how bad they suck and how useless they are, but when I actually did the math it blew my mind. Especially when you are pretty progressed in the game and have endgame gear. Every point added to your attributes are big, but to add 47 to your dps or 69 to your vitality is insane. Well I still dont see a real benefit to the vitality boost for only 12 seconds or so, a defensive boost would be great for us tanks, but even as a tank popping strength my dps will be significantly greater on a dps race.

The potions are 500-1000 gil for hq dexterity/int/mind/ and strength, which i really think justifies the price if it gets you past the tough phases of a turn. Who cares if you can only use it once per fight or its only a 12 second buff? Is that any different than a cool down? This is imo a massively beneficial cool down that costs a bit of gil. Worth it.

i have a full stack of HQ mega strength potions and use them especially for T4-T5 comes in great for that extra dps :)

+1 on hitting this. Potions were a must in most of the Final Fantasy games. I used some during some dungeon runs which saved my little Lalafell arse plenty of times.

I can see a Whm popping a mega-potion of mind, then popping presence of mind for 3 or 4 over powered heals but I don't know if it would be something that could turn the tides in a battle gone wrong or not.

Most issues in FF14 combat are latency related and even if you had the desire to maneuver like that it would be too late.

I always use potions and it increases my dmg significantly +1 to this thread

For Int and Mnd the pots are pretty useful and cheap. Str and especially vit pots are prohibitively expensive for many though (pudding flesh is lol and shark oil can get pricey to get the mats for). Kind of wish they would rebalance the material costs for str and vit pots.

I use potions routinely, how can you not its saved me from death MANY times

+1, Potions OP

There are quite a few threads out there stating that potions are useless. However, anybody that has been raiding for the last decade can tell you, potions/consumables do matter, especially when the size of the party increases. For example a potion that may add just 5 str to one player may appear weak to the person alone. Take that and multiply it by 24 people in a raid and it will be a huge number.

So yes people are overlooking potions/consumables, by a lot.

I'd enjoy them more often on my Dragoon if Shark Oils weren't so expensive on Phoenix. They usually run 4'000 a pop even if you buy and squeeze the sharks needed. So I kind of just save them for when Godzilla appears to savage me. :p

Not that I'm really doing anything that requires them, per se. But it's fun watching big numbers sometimes. Why yes, I do enjoy casting Meteor or Final Heaven to nearly inappropriate levels. Why do you ask?

whoa didnt think about that, so your LB3 is boosted by the potion buff as well? wow that is OP

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Originally Posted by Kimura410

Whats everyones thoughts? I mean, I think for those 12-15 seconds, the dps would be absolutely ridiculous. You get a max of 49 pts I think? I experimented earlier with vitality. For hq mega vitality I think it was 20% (max 69). I sit at 484 vit at 6295 HP with food buff, and when i popped the potion, I was at 547 vitality with 7100 HP.

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The idea of potions is not the problem, the Cost of potions & lasting on for a few seconds is. The idea that you would pay so much and have it last what 15 seconds is absurd. +12% DPS for 15 seconds weighted against the cost of making them is a big FU Square Enix. The ingredients are too pricy for most lv 50 Alchemist. So yeah unless the FC provides funds for these. I'm not buying it.

Of course it would make a difference but.. at a Cost most are not able to pay.

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Originally Posted by Kimura410

whoa didnt think about that, so your LB3 is boosted by the potion buff as well? wow that is OP

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Naw, they don't, sorry if I seemed misleading. I just happen to really enjoy popping Lvl 3 Damage Limit Breaks, hence the comment at the end. As far as I know, damage limit breaks simply take the party's average ilvl of their weapons when calculating damage.

I've heard good things for DPS-race bits where people pop Str/Dex and get 5 skills out of them.
as far as Int/Mnd perhaps if you use it when you summon your pet as Smn/Sch (so they have the stat bonus, I've heard it's stat snapshot like DoTs), but I can't see using them with after GCD effect skills being very effective.

I just couldn't ever see myself using a VIT/PIE bonus since giving bonus VIT doesn't give the HP that matches it just ups your health pool so you'd have to be cured up to it for it to matter

I use NQ mega-ethers (+270mp) for triple flare. Regular Flare + Convert Flare + Ether Flare.
150gil (Balmung price) is cheap for it.

I used them too, the recast time is a bit of a drawback, but I been through several fights that without them I wouldn't had won them. These potions are very useful when doing the class quests where you must do the work solo.

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Originally Posted by sylin

I use potions routinely, how can you not its saved me from death MANY times

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They're talking about +stat potions.

Best use I've heard of them until now is for extra gathering attempts.

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Originally Posted by Teleniel

perhaps if you use it when you summon your pet as Smn/Sch (so they have the stat bonus, I've heard it's stat snapshot like DoTs),

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anyone tested a fairie embrace with this? i doubt it somehow but would be amazing

Would be awesome if someone showed some numbers to back up the claims made for potions. Maybe a WP run without potions vs with potions, how many potion were used and the price of these potions.

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Originally Posted by sheepysheepy

anyone tested a fairie embrace with this? i doubt it somehow but would be amazing

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I've tested it, nothing. Pretty bummed out about that, would have been an interesting mechanic for Scholar/Summoner to use, kind of find the Mega-Mind potions to be a bit lacking now...

Does anyone else wish HQ had a longer duration instead of a slightly higher (and easier to reach) stats boost?

No one uses pots cuz it rarely makes a difference and u have to constantly replenish them. The only scenario you would use them is if you're in a free company and you all decided to use them, cuz no one is gonna waste their gil on a pug.

Potions are for welps :p

I tested summoning pet while having a mega int pot on, no change in pet dmg at all.

I hope people suddenly decide potions are worth it -- maybe then I won't regret getting ALC to 50 as much!

They need to make Pudding Flesh easier to get, Mega-Potions of Vitality were 20k each last time I checked the Wards, whereas a Mega-Potion of Mind was around 1k.

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Originally Posted by Grundy

They need to make Pudding Flesh easier to get, Mega-Potions of Vitality were 20k each last time I checked the Wards, whereas a Mega-Potion of Mind was around 1k.

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This, so much...

I really don't get why the Puddings in Toto-Rak apparently drop them (never seen personally, I used Levequests to farm when I was naive enough...) but the mid-Boss in Wanderer's Palace doesn't... Or maybe he does and once again I've just never seen it, either way they need to increase the drop rate...

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Originally Posted by Amasai

Would be awesome if someone showed some numbers to back up the claims made for potions. Maybe a WP run without potions vs with potions, how many potion were used and the price of these potions.

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I would not consider potions a worthwhile investment for WP runs because of their high cost and long cooldown. It's best to use them strategically on strict dps checks in 8-man encounters.

Potions are pretty much useless because this game is in some kind of difficulty puragatory that renders potions useless. On one hand, it's not so hard that you must do everything conceiveable possible thing to just have a tiny chance of winning. On the other hand, it's hard enough that it's not like you'll say we got Mega Potions so we can't possibly lose. It basically works out if you're actually good you don't need them, and if you're bad they wouldn't do enough to make up for your lack of skill, so either way you don't have an incentive to use them.

But still even in the hand of a good player these will none the less increase thier DPS

So uh, a few numbers that I haven't seen here yet, but am posting just so that it's in the thread.
NQ Mega-potions of X: +16% (max=49) to X, 5min. cooldown, 15 sec. duration
HQ Mega-potions of X: +20% (max=61) to X, 4min. 30sec. cooldown, 15 sec. duration
max values for mega potions of vitality are 1 higher for some reason, so NQmax=50, and HQmax=62.
And, they're only lv44-46 crafts, so making HQ mega-potions of X are pretty easy for a lv50 ALC.

On my server, HQMega-potions of Strength are going for 1000-1800 at the moment.
Breaking down the ingredients, silver sharks are going for about 1500 (NQ), hammerhead sharks for 400, sagolii sage and rock salt are both <15gil, then 16 shards for 30 gil apiece. Since you get a batch of 3 potions per craft, that's about 2400 in mats for 3000-5400 in value. Not really a great profit margin unless you're catching your own sharks. Mega-potions of vitality are in a very similar situation except pudding flesh goes for 5k+ on my server. The others though.... are pretty cheap.

I would like to propose a question though, how far does 61 str/dex/int go? Of course this is hard to test because they only last for 15 seconds and have a 4min. 30 sec. cooldown. But, for things like titans heart, which really doesn't last very long, those 15 seconds make up a significant portion of that phase. I can see how my WHM HPS is affected, but I would love to see a solid numbers. I've seen a few, aray0002 said +12%, but is that a guess or a tested number?

Also, there are no PIE potions.

I recall the your damage is scaled by (primary stat/100), so at most you get +15% to your output but it can be less since there's a max value on them. For example if your primary stat is at 450, then +60 is just 13.3%.

But the question you propose highlights exactly the difficult purgatory I talked about. Do you really think a group of people that needs a small boost to beat Titan's heart will actually beat phase 5? Almost certainly they'd just wipe to phase 5 and waste 100K worth of potions. On the other hand, if you're good enough to beat Titan (the encounter), you'd clear Titan's heart phase rather comfortably, so you have no reason to use them in the first place. In this case, having some X-Potions (HQ preferred) is likely to help more. The difficulty of this game is simply badly tuned. You usually either more than powerful enough to beat something or not even close, and in either case there's no reason to go the extra mile.

The most useful way to use potions would involve having everyone chug down X-Potions on every CD when you've taken at least 650 points of damage, though that can get expensive very fast, and this method has no way to account for situational needs. But, potions simply don't do enough in the situations that matter. That is, if you're wiping and you think you can chug some Mega Potions to turn it around, that's almost certainly not going to work, so you might as well not bother.