New items not an ilvl upgrade? Then at least they should be true sidegrade!

The pain of new gear not being better than previous would be much lower if it there were some horizontal progression gear. This way it would give players more incentive to get another item with same or lower ilvl, as long as it had a special effects. Even for collecting, so that it "may come in handy" in battle, not just vanity, which wont be in 2.1 anyway.

The horizontal progression could be realized by making certain items or sets give player additional "traits" or "skills", for the price of some secondary stats on item. Gear change in combat is already disabled, so there wont be gear-per-attack.

The traits can give bonuses to particular skill or alter how some works. Like make a dot do damage over shorter period of time.

Maybe with voice of community being strong enough it will be someday soon realized.

i agree completely. my hope is that the new primal weapons will retain the same weapon damage as the relics, if not the +1s, but have different stats. omnilex has mind, det and spell speed; it would be awesome, for example, if the primal book swapped one of those stats for another useful stat, like piety or crit.

i think this would open up new build paths. or just give people more ways to min/max but at least it'd be something to do.

CT has been known from before even beta to be pre-coil content. please stop complaining that they haven't made better stuff already, when you lived under a rock and didn't hear about this.

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Originally Posted by Teleniel

CT has been known from before even beta to be pre-coil content. please stop complaining that they haven't made better stuff already, when you lived under a rock and didn't hear about this.

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"stop complaining?" that's a little harsh considering TC only mentioned CT in the first sentence and didn't make a big deal out of it. the point of the post was that horizontal progression as it relates to the new weapons would be a good thing. or don't you agree

Tower was never designed to be horizontal progression. It was designed to be pre-coil. Therefor the equipment from it was not designed to be horizontal progression. As for adding additional special features to equipment, the team has stated that they would not have that for a significant period at the start of the game (if ever) because that caused balance issues. I expect our first horizontal progression equipment will be similar to Colosseum gear which has a certain ilv and will allow you to customize which additional stats you would like with materia.

The problem with horizontal progression is people figure out the BiS and everyone flocks to it, its made even worse here because there is no option to run different specs on a class (similar to RIFT etc). It just doesnt work here, vertical progression does however and would work infinitely better.

i realize now that TC was in fact talking about CT. i wasn't. i was talking about the extreme primal weapons, which i think should absolutely be viable alternatives to the relics

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Originally Posted by Tribunus

The problem with horizontal progression is people figure out the BiS and everyone flocks to it, its made even worse here because there is no option to run different specs on a class (similar to RIFT etc). It just doesnt work here, vertical progression does however and would work infinitely better.

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it seems lazy to me to say that having more choices is bad because the majority of people will choose a certain thing. why have any choice at all, then?

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Originally Posted by Tribunus

The problem with horizontal progression is people figure out the BiS and everyone flocks to it, its made even worse here because there is no option to run different specs on a class (similar to RIFT etc). It just doesnt work here, vertical progression does however and would work infinitely better.

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Most people are already flocking towards BiS items right now. It is not very hard to get Allagan pieces and mythology tomes right now.

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Originally Posted by jumpypuppet

i agree completely. my hope is that the new primal weapons will retain the same weapon damage as the relics, if not the +1s, but have different stats.

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The extreme primal weapons are ilvl 90, meaning they will have the same weapon damage as Relic +1 - stats are TBD but I think its pretty likely the secondary stats will be different from relic +1 stats.

Again? Is there an entire sub-set of players that doesn't find actual content relevant unless it provides better gear?

I just don't understand this...

Horizontal progression gear is an oxymoron as in it doesn't exist. There has to be some reason to go after new gear as in it has to be better in some way even if only very slightly.

Im stoked that its quick gear upgrades for my alt jobs :)

FFXIV may as well release new raids/dungeons with just a single long corridor with no detail whatsoever, with cardboard boxes piled up as bosses. It's not like it actually matters when I'm getting better, more leet gear.

/sarcasm

You people that insult others that care about the gear always seem to miss the point because of some kind of latent borderline personality disorder or something. They're not saying new content isn't cool, they're saying none of their hardcore (in b4 "lol FFXIV hardcore git gud scrub") playerbase going to want to do it more than once or twice and go then back to canceling their account if there's no gameplay reason to do it. Anybody who played FFXI knows exactly what I'm talking about if I mention the words "Garrison" or "Expeditionary Force". While power creep is never something I've liked in MMOs, actually having power creep, and then creating new content going backwards on that power creep is just...stupid business design.

The people with all their Allagan and Myth stuff will have fun doing CT once or twice, then go back to having nothing to do, unless they want to obsessively gear their tertiary and quaternary etc jobs. That's a pretty easy way to bleed subs.

On a personal level I guess I can thank SE for valuing an numbers addict's free time more than their own wallets though, I suppose.

or we could wait until things are actually released and we have finalized items, numbers, etc before we start complaining

I don't always wait for my dog to crap on the rug before I figure out training him or taking him for a walk might be a good idea. Maybe some people like the smell though, and I'm strangely cool with that.

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Originally Posted by Kincard

I don't always wait for my dog to crap on the rug

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but when you do you drink dos eques?

At least old items get a ilevel upgrade

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Originally Posted by Luso

Most people are already flocking towards BiS items right now. It is not very hard to get Allagan pieces and mythology tomes right now.

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Well of course they are its what vertical progression is all about, complete the content that awards the best gear.

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Originally Posted by TrystWildkey

Again? Is there an entire sub-set of players that doesn't find actual content relevant unless it provides better gear?

I just don't understand this...

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Everyone enjoys the content they choose to do, but there are some who also enjoy progressing their own characters in a meaningful way such as receiving gear that allows them to do their jobs better by beating the content.

I completely 100% agree but the development team took the insanely easy way out to "balance" the game by creating linear/vertical stats... not to mention making only 1-3 stats useful for each job.

It's the tier of gear between darklight and allagan that was completely missing from the game. Should be a welcome addition

also, the moogle weapons will supposedly be 80 so relic weapons will have an alternate and extreme primals are supposedly 90 making for an alternate to relic+1 while twintania will remain as the sole source of 95 making her the ultimate goal of everyone until 2.2 where there will be harder content released
I'm hoping one of the primals might drop rings instead of weapons though since that particular piece needs 2 and there is only ever 1 available for each gear set

crystal tower just should have been at launch with coil as 2.1 is the only real issue as far as gear goes

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Originally Posted by Okunbunu

I completely 100% agree but the development team took the insanely easy way out to "balance" the game by creating linear/vertical stats... not to mention making only 1-3 stats useful for each job.

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this is basically how I feel about it... but since I don't have every class in ilvl70+ (or 90+) I'm still happy to see that progression gear at least for me will be coming and that the content will be relevant in progressing TO ilvl90+ all jobs. I DO actually hope that they will release a patch with multiple different pieces of equipment that are available in a single ilvl tier for each job group, along with meldable/convertable equipment that can be obtained. I would *love* to see equipment with unique abilities but I understand that having rebuilt this game for ARR starting with basic vertical progression makes it easier.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Horizontal progression gear is an oxymoron as in it doesn't exist. There has to be some reason to go after new gear as in it has to be better in some way even if only very slightly.

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The only game I know of that it kind of worked on is FFXI with it's ridiculous gear swapping madness. But here you just pick one or the other, there's not really any such thing as situational gear bar maybe hitting that accuracy cap for coil.