24 man content DOA

Square, I have not been this dissapointed with you since the release of Mystic Quest.

How do you think it is a good idea to announce 24 man content years ago, then casually announce a month before release that you won't even be able to do it with your own FC???

I have spent the last 3 months putting together an FC for the sole purpose of doing 24 man content, and you more or less just flipped me the bird and laughed in my face.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised, and there are a whole lot of people who will say "TOLD YOU SO" , as I blindly defended Square and all of it's decisions up until this point... I guess I'm an idiot for trusting in you, Square. Now I get to log in today after work and tell the 30 or so people I've recruited for Crystal Tower that we won't be able to do it together afterall.

Then I get to sit and wait as everyone slowly trickles out of the game due to no FC raid content being available.

Please reconsider this decision, NOW, before it's too late.. So many FCs are about to crumble because of this. Do you care? You have time, please don't let this happen.

It's not something they "decided".

They HAVE NO CHOICE.

how will you not be able to do it with FC? pls explain , can you only play it with randoms?

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Originally Posted by AmnesiaHaze

how will you not be able to do it with FC? pls explain , can you only play it with randoms?

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Yep, you can potentially go in with 8 people, but the other 16 are complete strangers unless you try to manipulate the system.

Please don't call them Square. When I hear Square, I think of the legendary Squaresoft. These guys are a formal shell of a shell of a tenth of those guys.

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Originally Posted by AmnesiaHaze

how will you not be able to do it with FC? pls explain , can you only play it with randoms?

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You can only do CT with 7 other people from your FC.
The rest is DF only.
But I do agree this is pretty much a silly move.

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Originally Posted by Anonydort

I'm more worried about how my group of 8 is gonna carry 16 others who are probably AFK (i've read some horror stories about the raidfinder in WoW, scary stuff)

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We are getting the kick system too.

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Originally Posted by Garnatian

It's not something they "decided".

They HAVE NO CHOICE.

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Sorry, can you explain me why ?

I'm more worried about how my group of 8 is gonna carry 16 others who are probably AFK (i've read some horror stories about the raidfinder in WoW, scary stuff)

I think the DEVS should get a few weeks off work, nice vacation somewhere.


Because clearly they've worked themselves into complete madness.

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Originally Posted by Anonydort

I'm more worried about how my group of 8 is gonna carry 16 others who are probably AFK (i've read some horror stories about the raidfinder in WoW, scary stuff)

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Well Yoshi P did say that some mechanics allow other parties to assist but some will force each party to operate on their own un assisted. So individual players of each party might be able to get carried but another party carrying another wont insure a completion and since no save points its all or nothing for each floor.

Why:

Because the game is not structured to allow more than 8 people in a party locally. You cannot be in a party with more than 8 people. To make it so you can they would have to do one of the following:

1. Allow an alliance with up to two 8 person parties: Which would require adding alt/ctrl support for targeting people in the 2nd and 3rd groups. Significant coding effort that would push the patch back even further. Because they didn't plan on this out of the gate. Or they were working on it and the patch got pushed back and they cut this out to get it launched.

2. Redo the Duty Finder entirely so that we don't have to be in a party to use it. I favor this idea. They should make the duty finder like a match selector from League Of Legends. E.g. Let's say you want to go to Crystal tower and you want to organize your own run so you go into the Duty Finder and select Crystal Tower. Then in there you click "Create Group" instead of "Join Group" where you get a new screen. At the top it would say "Crystal Tower" and at the bottom would be 3 sections, 1 for each group of 8. You would then invite a leader to group 2 and group 3. They would join you in the duty finder window. You would then invite your 7 people from the FC and they would invite their 7 people "All in the same FC" until all 24 people are in the Raid Creation Screen.

Then you would click Start and everyone is qued into crystal tower and zones in for the raid.

I really wish they would work on #2 for Everything.

i really dont understand what technical limitation is preventing them to allow "private" 24 FC instances, the only reason i can think of would be wanting everyone to have a equal chance of getting into the game regardless of their FC status

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Originally Posted by vax

Sorry, can you explain me why ?

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Because PS3 cant handle that period lol

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Originally Posted by ValcKyard

Because PS3 cant handle that period lol

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If it can handle 24 pugs, why cant it handle 24 FC members? that statement makes no sense

It's my understanding that your 8 man party won't have hardly anything to do with the other two in there. You will have your own stuff to worry about. It's like having 3 separate platoons who trained separate converging on a common goal. I honestly think you guys are making a bigger deal out of this than you need to be. Wait and try it before you knock it.

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Originally Posted by Zenogias

If it can handle 24 pugs, why cant it handle 24 FC members? that statement makes no sense

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It doesn't handle 24 man pugs in the UI. You will be in a group of 8, separated from the other 16. When the areas converge it will be 3 groups of 8 standing in the same area but only 8 people on your UI. Each group will be responsible for itself. And if you heal people out of your group it will be like healing people at a fate not in your group.

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Originally Posted by RowanLauron

It's my understanding that your 8 man party won't have hardly anything to do with the other two in there. You will have your own stuff to worry about. It's like having 3 separate platoons who trained separate converging on a common goal. I honestly think you guys are making a bigger deal out of this than you need to be. Wait and try it before you knock it.

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Yes, 3 seperate platoons who trained seperate converging on a common goal.

AKA: An FC with 3 8-man Binding Coil groups converging on a common goal! AKA: What most of us in raiding FCs have been planning on doing since before release!

It may not be a big deal to you, but to those of us that actually raid with an FC and have been devoting our time preparing for such an event.. This is a dagger to the heart.

Please do not understate the gravity of this situation simply because you are a lonewolf and use duty finder to play the game.

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Originally Posted by Ryios

It doesn't handle 24 man pugs in the UI. You will be in a group of 8, separated from the other 16. When the areas converge it will be 3 groups of 8 standing in the same area but only 8 people on your UI. Each group will be responsible for itself. And if you heal people out of your group it will be like healing people at a fate not in your group.

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Oh I didn't realize the context of what he was saying, thought it was simply a response to my post.

They should allow us to go to an entrance. And enter. Most groups will figure out how to 'cue' manually and the problem will be out of their hands.

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Originally Posted by Zenogias

Yes, 3 seperate platoons who trained seperate converging on a common goal.

AKA: An FC with 3 8-man Binding Coil groups converging on a common goal! AKA: What most of us in raiding FCs have been planning on doing since before release!

It may not be a big deal to you, but to those of us that actually raid with an FC and have been devoting our time preparing for such an event.. This is a dagger to the heart.

Please do not understate the gravity of this situation simply because you are a lonewolf and use duty finder to play the game.

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I want to SIG this! This explains in perfect detail why FC is pretty useless and how their plans on giving FCs primal cards/content or whatever will fail before it gets off the ground. That being said, they should consider how difficult it is to depend on 16 other strangers to complete their mission so you can get to the final boss(es) (and get crappy gear lol) compared to 2 dps carrying 2 more dps dmg while 2 healers heal 1 1/2 tanks.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmmvopOB0j1qgqe5z.gif

Had to do it, I'm hoping they'll give more info or something will be "fixed" but it is what it is for why it is. Bad? Maybe, overreaction? Yes.

They cant even implement the focus target on PS3 so how do you want them to add alliance UI and ps3 structure of ffxiv ?

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Originally Posted by OmegaFlare

That's gonna be a nightmare scenario but I doubt you'd find people with allagans in CT though. CT is for new people and people gearing up alt classes. I just hope they up the gear requirement to ilvl 60 minimum. At least pugs with decent gears will have a better chance at completing their areas.

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I think with the minimum being 55 I don't think you'll find most of a raid consisting of 55 players that common. I'd imagine most of the participants will probably be in mostly DL with a few stragglers bring up the rear in terms of gear. It's not like the DF is just going to find all the ilvl 55 players and stick them together on purpose or anything.

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Originally Posted by OmegaFlare

That's gonna be a nightmare scenario but I doubt you'd find people with allagans in CT though. CT is for new people and people gearing up alt classes. I just hope they up the gear requirement to ilvl 60 minimum. At least pugs with decent gears will have a better chance at completing their areas.

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Want a bet? My entire FC wants to complete everything that exists. Also several of us want the drops in there for vanity & gearing up other jobs.

I'm going to see Dreadlockrasta's doomsday scenario and raise him 1:

1 of the 3 parties /ragequits.


Having left a TON of Derp Finder groups on PLD i can foresee this happening. Often.

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Originally Posted by Zenogias

[stuff]
Please reconsider this decision, NOW, before it's too late.. So many FCs are about to crumble because of this. Do you care? You have time, please don't let this happen.

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It's "dead on arrival" yet it hasn't even arrived yet. Brilliant. Yes, i can see every fc "crumbling" just because most of them which don't even have 24 players online at the same time on a regular basis can't bring everyone into the same instance at once.

For the record, they already know that some peple want to form full alliances ahead of time. They said it's going to happen, it just won't be right away. Would you rather them delay Crystal Tower another 3 months just because some functionality not critical to the dungeon itself isn't available yet?

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

It's "dead on arrival" yet it hasn't even arrived yet. Brilliant. Yes, i can see every fc "crumbling" just because most of them which don't even have 24 players online at the same time on a regular basis can't bring everyone into the same instance at once.

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Some of us worked our asses off to get an FC together that DOES have enough active raiders to do this content together. That is the entire point of my thread, but apparently your whiteknight goggles are on.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

For the record, they already know that some peple want to form full alliances ahead of time. They said it's going to happen, it just won't be right away.

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Perfect, then once everyone has already completed Crystal Tower and received all of their gear.. We can finally do it as an FC! Are you being purposely facetious?

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Would you rather them delay Crystal Tower another 3 months just because some functionality not critical to the dungeon itself isn't available yet?

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YES! It was already delayed 4 months!!! To do what? Nerf it into the ground and then make it impossible for FCs to do it together?

You just made the point that should make people even angrier than they actually are. They delayed a raid that should have been available ON RELEASE, so that they could make it easier. OKAY, but it doesn't take that long to just cut some numbers in a database. So why 4 months and not 1 month? Why couldn't they FIX the raid to actually work for FCs in all that time?

It should work like this imo:

You can't queue unless you have a full party of 8 (correct jobs) OR a full alliance.

Bam, both issues fixed.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

It's "dead on arrival" yet it hasn't even arrived yet. Brilliant. Yes, i can see every fc "crumbling" just because most of them which don't even have 24 players online at the same time on a regular basis can't bring everyone into the same instance at once.

For the record, they already know that some peple want to form full alliances ahead of time. They said it's going to happen, it just won't be right away. Would you rather them delay Crystal Tower another 3 months just because some functionality not critical to the dungeon itself isn't available yet?

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Personally I would rather had them delay the game launch so they can you know finish the game. Then non of this would be problem. Although since you seem so content with defending everything this company does, carry on.

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Originally Posted by Wobi

Reported. Try to argue points like an adult. On topic, few people realize that the *majority* of the FFXIV population is not clearing Turns 1-4 on the regular, even fewer for turn 5. This will allow them to gear up and have some fun. Don't rain on their parade.

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You are everything that is wrong with this game's community. I wish I could ban people like you from the thread.

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Originally Posted by ValcKyard

Because PS3 cant handle that period lol

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XI could handle 18 people ui wise..that was a 2002 PS2 game.

I've got 2 i90 pieces and will want to do CT when I'm locked out or bored, 3 if you count the relic weapon, and 4 as soon as next week rolls around. If it gives myth tomes I will also want to go through it more often than anything else because it has a chance to get rid of the DL I have left. Don't want to have to do duty finder groups if I don't have to. It probably increases the chance of failing the run by at least 50%. Does CT lock out for the week or can it get spammed?

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Originally Posted by Zenogias

You are everything that is wrong with this game's community. I wish I could ban people like you from the thread.

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Yes, personal attacks against me are much better than arguing my point. They at no point declared crystal tower would have better gear, it was meant to come out before Coil but that is not how things turned out. The fact is it will be a decent way for geared players to fill out slots in alt jobs until they get i90 or better and for those not clearing Coil on a regular basis they will have gear to help that become a possibility.

It's called artificially extending the content, by making sure you don't have a full coordinated group of 24 people you'll have to depend on 16 other random people who might or might not have perfected the content to run it fast enough, you'll also have to fight against the Duty Finder queues meaning more time between each run and since each run only drops a single chest for your own party well there you go, content extended for another 3 more months.

Please look forward to it.

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Originally Posted by Wobi

Reported. Try to argue points like an adult. On topic, few people realize that the *majority* of the FFXIV population is not clearing Turns 1-4 on the regular, even fewer for turn 5. This will allow them to gear up and have some fun. Don't rain on their parade.

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His exact point is that undergeared, underprepared, incompetent, or otherwise bad groups CAN and WILL and MUST "rain on the parades" of parties that are prepared, competent, and pre-formed.

What will stop random players or entire parties from trolling the entire alliance? From going AFK? From pulling and MPKing the party? From stalling progress? Nothing. That is why we need restrictions on who we can clear CT with, and ideally, allow full alliances to form before entry.

If our goal is to allow for casual players to clear encounters and have a good time, it absolutely should not be at the expense of players who expect the bare minimum (or, god forbid, higher) standards among their alliance members.

Given that Duty Finder server groups are spread among worlds and we have no cross-server social capabilities, this current situation will serve to force better players to carry non-dedicated players through a dungeon. It's inexcusable and needs to be addressed.

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Some of us worked our asses off to get an FC together that DOES have enough active raiders to do this content together. That is the entire point of my thread, but apparently your whiteknight goggles are on.

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I'm not white knighting. My point is that this content is made for the duty finder, and in fact MOST FCs do NOT have 24+ people to gather up for this instance. This isn't a matter of white knighting, it's a simple fact. Stop throwing around the term when you don't even know what it means apparently.

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Nerf it into the ground and then make it impossible for FCs to do it together?

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Um, it's not being nerfed into the ground? It's not impossible for FC's to do it together? The average size including on and offline members of an FC is probably less than 20? Form an 8 man group. Your very same logic can be used against what you want: If they delay the crystal tower longer, it will be even less relevant when it comes out. Maybe they should just not release it at all then?

No FC is going to "crumble" over this, and the functionality that caters to the few FCs that can actually field 24 people for one event will come later. For the rest of us, we can enjoy the content now. I haven't made any point that should make people angrier, it should make them happier or not "make" them anything. at all.

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Personally I would rather had them delay the game launch so they can you know finish the game.

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The game is no more or less "finished" than any MMO was at its launch. As you should know and should keep you from making such comments, MMOs are never "finished." They could delay the game 10 years to add 100 new dungeons and 20 new battle systems, or they could let us play it now and intdoduce those things gradually over time.

I don't "defend everything this company does." There are plenty of things I'm not super happy with and/or wish would be changed in a certain way. That being said I do not see the problem in what they're doing with this dungeon. The people complaining about it are not the people that the dungeon was being made for in the first place. Apparently we're not allowed to be happy with things, doing so gets us branded "white knights."

"White Knighting" is blindly defending something with no logical reason or basis e.g. defending something as "just fine" just because, with no actual reasoning. I do not do such things. If I defend something I have a good reason for it. You should be more worried about "Black Knighting" where people just bash things for the sake of bashing them rather than because they have a real good reason.

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Originally Posted by YuriRamona

His exact point is that undergeared, underprepared, incompetent, or otherwise bad groups CAN and WILL and MUST "rain on the parades" of parties that are prepared, competent, and pre-formed.

What will stop random players or entire parties from trolling the entire alliance? From going AFK? From pulling and MPKing the party? From stalling progress? Nothing. That is why we need restrictions on who we can clear CT with, and ideally, allow full alliances to form before entry.

If our goal is to allow for casual players to clear encounters and have a good time, it absolutely should not be at the expense of players who expect the bare minimum (or, god forbid, higher) standards among their alliance members.

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I'm glad you know exactly how it will work already, thanks for the insight. If they made it where the content can be cleared with iLVL55 gear then it shouldn't be too big of a problem. Fact is, this is how it will launch. You'll have to see how this plays out.

I am overgeared for it on multiple jobs but that doesn't mean I don't think other players should have a fair shake at clearing the content. I'm entirely confident this was their plan to set it up with 3 sets of 8 thru the Duty Finder so that geared players would actually try it out with people they do not know. Later on they will likely allow it to be set up as a 24 man pre-made but I'd be willing to bet they haven't got around to coding that yet.

Crystal Tower is ruined for me because of this. Duty finder is supposed to exist to match parties and fill gaps for players who either dont have enough people in their FC/LS at the time or match people who want to jump in an be matched to get a group rather than shout.
To not be able to run this raid with my FC/LS friends makes me not want to do it at all. I play this game to do content with mates and be social, I dont want to rely on random DF groups where people have their own motives and strategies.
Thats my rant. I hope the community reps pass our feedback to YoshiP and the dev team.

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Originally Posted by Wobi

Reported.

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https://dsuo78gtau8wd.cloudfront.net...a6caf292a3.png

Was already DOA when it was content behind coil. All we have now to do is a couple extreme modes for a long time nothing but coil to upgrade us(and not much of an upgrade in there anyway). The only raid turns out to be absolutely worthless to anyone that's been playing the game up till now because we already have mostly ilvl 90 gear. I am on a new server and have every class/craft/gather to 50 I cant imagine what 1.0 players that started on already leveled characters going to have to do.
And forcing duty finder on ANYONE specially with as bad as the playerbase is in ARR is cruel and unusual punishment.

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Originally Posted by Reiterpallasch

https://dsuo78gtau8wd.cloudfront.net...a6caf292a3.png

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Because comparing undergeared or less than stellar players to the mentally disabled and blind is so cool right? I hope nothing every happens to any of you cool kids or your children, you might grow up and change your tune.