so war becoming like pld...

so I read that WAR are becoming like PLD in terms of midigation...

does that mean they are removing the HP buff to defiance?

the reason I ask, is when 2 tank classes are similar... the one with the highest HP generally wins in most MMOs when it comes to balancing...

No.
The HP buff is remaining 25%, the healing buff is increased to 20%.

Shield oath, by comparison provides 25% more HP, and a 25% healing buff as a result of 20% mitigation.
If a Warrior did not receive the bonus hp + Heal bonus from defiance, Paladins would be far better.

atleast the two tank classes are balanced now. The changes are good in paper, I want to see them in the real world before making any judgement.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yunnie

so I read that WAR are becoming like PLD in terms of midigation...

does that mean they are removing the HP buff to defiance?

the reason I ask, is when 2 tank classes are similar... the one with the highest HP generally wins in most MMOs when it comes to balancing...

---

They arent removing Shield Oath/Sword Oath from PLDs so there is no reason to remove Defiance from WARs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maqaqa

They arent removing Shield Oath/Sword Oath from PLDs so there is no reason to remove Defiance from WARs.

---

i'm not asking them to remove defiance, im just wondering if they are removing the HP boost from it

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yunnie

i'm not asking them to remove defiance, im just wondering if they are removing the HP boost from it

---

So we can go back to double PLD again?

PLD's get a constant 20% mitigation, WAR's get a constant 25% HP / 20% curing boost. I don't see what's the big deal.

Honestly warrior was only different in that it sucked. The hp restoration bit was very poorly done with a total of 3 attacks restoring hp for the warrior, only one of which had any sort of actual use on bosses but cost a large chunk of outside healing, another that really only did anything when you hit many targets, and the last was an absolute joke (maybe 100 hp on a good day). They had one cool down dealing with hp that personally I thought was very lack luster, great 20% hp that is gone the very next hit.

At first I was disappointed that they killed the hp absorption aspect but really it was never there to begin with. With these buffs coming things look much better for warrior, and they still have a different enough style from paladin where I feel they belong as separate classes. Paladin is very straight forward and more about reducing longer damage periods, warrior is more combo based and will be about bursts of reduction. I like it.

There is no change in design philosophy in the class itself as most nitwits believe. Warriors are still the ACTIVE tank class which requires thought about which buttons to press to mitigate damage appropriately so they're likened to the Tank classes in WoW which are very well developed mechanics wise.

Paladins will still be the easier tank to play and stronger in an inexperienced player's hands then a warrior would be due to relying more so on PASSIVE mitigation. Warriors will only surpass paladins if they are indeed an amazing player as such the new changes promote good play and timing on the warrior's part to get the most out of their class.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yunnie

i'm not asking them to remove defiance, im just wondering if they are removing the HP boost from it

---

Defiance: Increases maximum HP by 25%, while lowering damage dealt by 25% and increasing enmity. Effect ends upon reuse.

What would be the point of Defiance if they removed the HP buff? WAR would be a weaker version of MRD. Same HP, a few tanking skills more and 25% less damage dealt as an option.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pavise

There is no change in design philosophy in the class itself as most nitwits believe. Warriors are still the ACTIVE tank class which requires thought about which buttons to press to mitigate damage appropriately so they're likened to the Tank classes in WoW which are very well developed mechanics wise.

Paladins will still be the easier tank to play and stronger in an inexperienced player's hands then a warrior would be due to relying more so on PASSIVE mitigation. Warriors will only surpass paladins if they are indeed an amazing player as such the new changes promote good play and timing on the warrior's part to get the most out of their class.

---

Wait what? I believe both classes are are equal in gameplay as well, neither are easier or harder.The only hard thing about warrior is the fact they gimped the living hell out of us causing us to be careful with how we choose to spend our wrath but thanks to 2.1 that issue is gone.. As well Warriors will not surpass paladins even if they are amazing because Paladins will always block+parry as to Warrior who only has parry. I'm just glad that the whining will stop and I'll see more of my fellow warrior comrades in raids tanking side by side with a paladin.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pavise

There is no change in design philosophy in the class itself as most nitwits believe.

---

It gets really annoying having to beat this into most people's heads. So often people confuse the mechanics that a class uses for its role with the actual *playstyle* of the class. WAR is keeping the same playstyle with some explicit improvements so that you're not penalized for using your abilities and that all of them are actually *useful*. Saying that WAR is becoming like PLD is like saying that SCH and WHM would play the same if Cure III got turned into a heal + shield spell (so that, you know, Cure III isn't just the bad, expensive version of Medica/Medica II that you get at 42). The playstyle of WAR is being preserved; there's no worry of the two suddenly becoming the copies of each other.

Quote:

---

that SCH and WHM would play the same if Cure III got turned into a heal + shield spell

---

Do it, SE. I dare you.

Why do people think were getting an extra 20%? they are just moving it from the stacks to the base thats its nothing is being improved upon. This allows us to just use our stacks more freely geez...

@ OP

If warriors didn't have +25% MaxHP their +20% healing would be ineffective. Cause they will take more damage and without the increased threshold fail to realize it's POST DMG mitigation. The coming changes makes Warrior stronger by that extra 5% Max HP only, because +20% MaxHP and +20% Healing = +20% Damage Reduction.

IF directly applied to Paladin, how would you like a -20% DMG received but also get a -20% Max HP? Defeats the purpose doesn't it? While it might be passable for small hits but the big hits are still going to bring you down.

People need to stop tunnel-visioning everything and look at the bigger picture. Yes we war's became a bit more like pld but pld was op in the first place. War's still need to keep their buff's up to maintain control of IB and now that IB is 100% heal it just means we need to work harder to maintain all of our skills to keep up with the same mitigation. Here are some macros that I use;

Berserk Release

/micon "Berserk"
/ac "Berserk" <me>
/ac "Internal Release" <me>

Unchained Berserk

/micon "Unchained"
/ac "Unchained" <me>
/ac "Infuriate" <me>
/ac "Berserk" <me>
/ac "Internal Release" <me>

Leech Heal

/micon "Vengeance"
/ac "Bloodbath" <me>
/ac "Convalescence" <me>
/ac "Vengeance" <me>

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TaneshimaPopura

@ OP
The coming changes makes Warrior stronger by that extra 5% Max HP only, because +20% MaxHP and +20% Healing = +20% Damage Reduction.

---

Not sure what math you are doing because that is not remotely true.
20% mitigation = 25% more HP.
1/.8 = 25%

Let us assume a Warrior has a 20% HP buff instead of 25%

PLD with 1k health
WAR with 1.2k health
Both take 200 damage each

PLD mitigates that 200 damage by 20%, so its 160 every time you are hit.
WAR doesn't

After 6 hits
PLD= 40 HP left
WAR= Dead.

So 20% more hp < 20% mitigation.
To break even, you need 25% more HP to die at the same time.


Let us assume 100 heal incoming.
So WAR gets 120.
PLD gets 100.
Damage is the same.

PLD dies in 16 hits.
WAR dies in 15 hits, assuming 25% more HP and a 20% healing received buff.
The WAR dies in 14 hits if he only had 20% more health though.

Its not even unless the WAR has a 25% heal buff, in which case, they both die at the same time.


Edit: Pardon, subtract 1 hit from each in terms of death, I was being silly and calculated with the heal and damage occurring at the same time ; im a derp; the WAR will always die before the PLD still.

I feel SE should have taken a page out of Turbine's book and done Warrior like they did Warden... But I digress. I am still anxious to play with the changes myself.

Dont forget that they mentioned tweaking the cross class skills for all classes. Seeing as CNJ atm is pretty lackluster for PLD i expect some changes here, which would help to differentiate the two tanks further. Battle rez anyone?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChaozK

Dont forget that they mentioned tweaking the cross class skills for all classes. Seeing as CNJ atm is pretty lackluster for PLD i expect some changes here, which would help to differentiate the two tanks further. Battle rez anyone?

---

I really hope this happens as I feel this is one of the weakest parts of PLD.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eardstapa

I feel SE should have taken a page out of Turbine's book and done Warrior like they did Warden... But I digress. I am still anxious to play with the changes myself.

---

A stone skin is totally awesome and I have found res useful even if it isnt a combat res. Cure was something i used often before i got stoneskin.
A tank needs 2 things to hold aggro and stay alive when i have so much aggro that im never going to lose it in BC i often self heal. Like the snake in Turn one and the final dreadnaught in turn 4 when i switch and the other tank grabs agro in ads i stone skin too.