Best WHM DPS Spells for Party Combat

Assuming you're a White Mage that's a) comfortable with and enjoys damage-dealing and b) in a competent party - what's your optimal set-up for DPS? If it's a healing-heavy fight, which do you prioritise for those few seconds you've got between tossing-out heals?

Does Stone I's Heavy affect outweigh Stone II's greater damage for you?

In your opinion, does Aero I's instant cast make it more useful than Aero II's greater damage but longer cast-time?

If you're in a heavy healing fight, I do not suggest to cast any deeps at all! D:

But if you must, use instant spells like Aero I & Virus.

Just know that it's risky. If you got the balls, go for it.

Other than that... casual speed... I like to nuke a f*** load with holy if bard just so happens to give me MP regen with out me asking. :D
Shiny....

I use AeroII & StoneII....because if I am going to DPS, I want to do it full-on! CS and all!
That said, I am a WHM who is not a DPSer by default. I only DPS when all is good in the party and/or if I am getting a little bored in a low heal section.
In Bosses, if we are coping, then 99% of the time AeroII will be done, and kept up. Only Stone if we're looking good....in mobs, I like to CS and then StoneII timed perfectly so my hit is the last :) (or thereabouts). I like the final slap!

Holy, only if asked...sometimes I ask permission, sometimes Tank/DPS ask me. Only cos once I Holy myself and it totally ballsed up the stategy/plan of the Tank. He was cool, but was like: Maaaan, crazy, but cool. Warn me next time

In lower levels I DPS more,unless it is real low...last night I did Satasha with my friends (levelling their other character) and I stuck to WHM to help them with queue time (they both DPS) and forgot to update my hotbar....I could only cast 3 things!! :) Cure. Protect and Esuna - hahaha!

Aero --> Thunder --> Aero II (for DoTs), then Stone II if single target. Holys if multiple targets.

Short burst - Stone II
AoE - Holy
Long Fight (Boss) - Aero II, Aero, Stone II spam until DoTs need to be refreshed.

Thunder (2.5 sec cast): 30 initial potency + 210 damage over time = 240
Aero II (2.5 sec cast): 50 initial potency + 160 damage over time = 210
Aero (instant): 50 initial potency + 150 damage over time = 200
Holy(3 sec cast): 240 / (corrective factor 3/2.5) = 200
Stone II (2.5 sec cast): 170
Stone (2.5 sec cast): 140

Damage over time spells will yield better DPS. However, if the target dies before its full duration completes, then it is often less effective than Stone II spam.

Unless Stone I's Heavy effect has a hidden effect, it is not better than Stone II (besides behind slightly more MP efficient).

Holy is the best non-damage-over-time spell for DPS, but is incredibly MP inefficient and must be centered on yourself. However, its stun effect can be very useful.

TL;DR: Please maths when others ask for advice instead of speculate or post your anecdotal rotation. Many of the above posts were highly uninformative.

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Originally Posted by Eclair_Xysha

If you're in a heavy healing fight, I do not suggest to cast any deeps at all! D:

But if you must, use instant spells like Aero I & Virus.

Just know that it's risky. If you got the balls, go for it.

Other than that... casual speed... I like to nuke a f*** load with holy if bard just so happens to give me MP regen with out me asking. :D
Shiny....

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No. Please stop. First of all, in heavy healing situations, every little ounce of DPS reduces the risk that the fight will be extended beyond the healers' MP pool, or can be used tactically to advance the enemy to the next phase. Simply because it is healing intensive does not mean that healer DPS is not an option.

Second of all, every DPS discussion ever in this forum does not ever imply that healers should prioritize DPS, forego healing, or put the party at unnecessary risk. A healer's job will always revolve around their primary tool: healing. Everything else is secondary.

Yuri's information is all that you need. I think it is best to see actions in terms of "GCD spent" and the DoTs are worth more per-GCD if they will be able to last their entire duration.

Essentially, most of the time you will want to use them on enemies that are near-full HP or on bosses. Otherwise, stick to Stone II or Holy depending on the situation. A swiftcast Holy can be used to buy some time so you can fix up the tank or just to relieve pressure for a moment to allow a tick of Regen.

Oh I'm sorry that I some how offended you... but I didn't say the op must prioritize dps or heals. That's entirely up to the person. I did say however that I wouldn't "suggest" dot in heavy healing, but if you "want" use instant dot because my way of thinking, if the tank dies even if he pulled too much, it's still your fault. When op mentioned heavy healing, I think of titan hm, ak speed etc. So you in the party pick and judge. Make your own style because everyone has their way of playing/doing things. Just don't die.

Part of knowing when to do things at the right time is by actually testing it. Hand pick out things etc.

From a practical standpoint in most dungeons there's not much real difference between an instant cast and a 2.5 second cast if you need to switch back to healing. The instant will still need the 2.5s cooldown and so the next spell happens at the same time with either.

It depends on the type of run. If it's a sr where the tank pulls through several groups of mobs, execution is important because damage will be fast and heavy. The tank and healer should have stoneskin before the pull. When you reach the pull point, Holy, then swiftcast/holy. Remember that every mob will now agro the healer, and even two holys will probably not kill them all. Have your finger on benediction if necessary (benediction will heal 100% even in cleric stance). Chances are you won't need it as the tank should gain agro quickly and the DPS should finish off whatever is left in a few seconds. If pulling one groups at a time, I just target the numbered mobs and throw some Stone II between heals.

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Originally Posted by YuriRamona

Aero II (2.5 sec cast): 50 initial potency + 160 damage over time = 210
Aero (instant): 50 initial potency + 150 damage over time = 200
Holy(3 sec cast): 240 / (corrective factor 3/2.5) = 200
Thunder (2.5 sec cast): 30 initial potency + 160 damage over time = 190
Stone II (2.5 sec cast): 170
Stone (2.5 sec cast): 140

Damage over time spells will yield better DPS. However, if the target dies before its full duration completes, then it is often less effective than Stone II spam.

Unless Stone I's Heavy effect has a hidden effect, it is not better than Stone II (besides behind slightly more MP efficient).

Holy is the best non-damage-over-time spell for DPS, but is incredibly MP inefficient and must be centered on yourself. However, its stun effect can be very useful.

TL;DR: Please maths when others ask for advice instead of speculate or post your anecdotal rotation. Many of the above posts were highly uninformative.



No. Please stop. First of all, in heavy healing situations, every little ounce of DPS reduces the risk that the fight will be extended beyond the healers' MP pool, or can be used tactically to advance the enemy to the next phase. Simply because it is healing intensive does not mean that healer DPS is not an option.

Second of all, every DPS discussion ever in this forum does not ever imply that healers should prioritize DPS, forego healing, or put the party at unnecessary risk. A healer's job will always revolve around their primary tool: healing. Everything else is secondary.

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Thunder is 30 initial potency + 210 potency over time, making it WHM's strongest attack if MP isn't a problem.
EDIT: Nothing else to see here.

Thanks to everyone who put up hard numbers. God knows why I didn't think to look at those.

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Originally Posted by YuriRamona

Unless Stone I's Heavy effect has a hidden effect, it is not better than Stone II (besides behind slightly more MP efficient).

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That's actually one of the reasons I started this thread, because I wanted to know what other people's experience with that spell was. When I'm solo-hunting, Stone I's an important part of my tool box because its 40% slowing effect essential works as damage mitigation since it reduces the number of times I'm going to get bitten/licked/pecked etc.

I've been tossing it in mid-level dungeons to see if I can get the same utility but my over-geared tank partner isn't really noticing it either way.

When I have time between heals I usually go:

Cleric Stance (On) --> Aero --> Aero II --> Thunder --> Cleric Stance (Off)

If I have more time to keep DPSing I'll throw in a Stone II after my DoTs. On large trash pulls if I have confidence in the tank/party I'll throw in a Holy or two in CS with Swiftcast if needed. Virus at the beginning of boss fights as well.

Since nobody's mentioned it yet;
Thunder->Aero->Aero2 leads to all three debuffa synching up within 1 sec. Just keep applying dots in that order and spam stone2 or a few heals inbetween and you're already doing better than 90% of the whm out there.

It is pointless to talk about potency of a single DoT if you take into account only the amount of damage it does and you ignore its duration. A single Thunder does more damage than a single Aero II, but you can reapply Aero II 6 seconds before due to its less duration, so Aero II is definetely more efficient than Thunder. That being said, I usually turn to Cleric Stance and start nuking if the situation is under control. If it is a boss fight, I like to turn in Cleric Stance and then use this rotation: Aero II --> Aero --> Fluid Aura --> Stone II spam. The reason why I use Fluid Aura after Aero should be obvious: two spells in one single GCD. In particular fights like Demon Wall, I like to insert Presence of Mind in that rotation in order to maximazing the dps: Aero II --> Aero --> Presence of Mind --> Stone II spam --> Aero II --> Stone II --> Aero --> Fluid Aura and so on. I rarely use Thunder, because its MP cost is pretty inconvenient for a WHM.

I generally use aero and virus because they are instant, and I can use them while I'm moving out of the red. If I'm not using Repose, I will cast lightning on the pull since it generates aggro a bit slower, and I have the cast time to spare. If the mob is going to die soon I may spam stone II in the hopes that my DPS means less healing will be required. I often don't switch stances, so if something happens that I need to heal quickly, I don't have to swtich. It's very group and encounter dependant.

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Originally Posted by Lionsden

Short burst - Stone II
AoE - Holy
Long Fight (Boss) - Aero II, Aero, Stone II spam until DoTs need to be refreshed.

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This. You can use Stone I situationally when you can make use of heavy. For example, on the second boss in Wanderer's Palace, I cast it just as he's about to target a random player to make it easier for them to keep their distance as he chases them.

1. Divine Seal -> Regen
2. Prescence of Mind -> HOLY 4 LIFE

Seriously though, it's all about being comfortable with the heals and squeezing what you can out, and a lot of that is going to depend on the tank. If you have a tank you run with often, try and get a feel for how long it takes for him to drop to about half and that will give you an idea of how much time you can spend dpsing. Figure out how much mana you can afford to use on Holy spam, but remember that Holy spam => shorter fight => less mana needed.

There are a few situations that you should always dps in, such as Demon Wall or slime spawn during 2nd boss in WP(2-3 Cleric Holy nukes usually put them down). Also remember that knockback works on the big slime boss, so you can knock him away(or into ^_^) your party members right before the cleave.

I apologize, some of my initial information was wrong. Thunder's total potency is 240, not 190. The previous post was edited to reflect this.

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Originally Posted by Loam

It is pointless to talk about potency of a single DoT if you take into account only the amount of damage it does and you ignore its duration. A single Thunder does more damage than a single Aero II, but you can reapply Aero II 6 seconds before due to its less duration, so Aero II is definetely more efficient than Thunder.

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This is true. If we are most concerned about damage per second, then the options will vary according to the total potency divided by duration, because we are applying the debuff back-to-back (which is generally not the case for WHM/CNJ, but could happen).

Thunder: 240 after 14.5 seconds = 16.5
Aero II: 210 after 14.5 seconds = 14.5
Aero: 200 after 20.5 seconds = 9.75

The effective DPS is still in the same ranking. However, we see that the ratio between Thunder and Aero is even more stark; whereas the total potency is 1.2:1, the DPS is 1.7:1. Aero is an even bigger loser when we take speed into account.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

However, due to how DoTs tick in FFXIV, based on a universal 3 second timer, you will often miss one of the ticks, and in fact should expect to lose one. It matters much less for long-term DoT upkeep, but it definitely matters for single cast, which is often what you'll be doing as a healer since you can't time perfect upkeep unless you're always free. If you look at it this way, these are the potencies on losing a tick:

Thunder: 30 + 175 - 205 Potency
Aero: 50 + 125 - 175 Potency
Aero II: 50 + 120 - 170 Potency

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I'd have to see testing about the universal buff tick messing with the duration to confirm this. As far as I can tell, the server waits until the next tick until it applies the debuff, and then begins counting the duration from that point. So, there is no chance that we will miss the tick and lose one.

You're right, just went and Thunder'd a bunch of enemies and each one had 6 ticks.

Nothing complicated.

18s+:
Thunder -> Aero -> Aero II -> Stone II.

12s-:
Aero II -> Stone II.

AoE:
Holy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Loam

It is pointless to talk about potency of a single DoT if you take into account only the amount of damage it does and you ignore its duration.

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What matters is 90% of cases is Damage per GCD. Duration doesn't come into play since most fights will last 18s+ and since the time between each DoT is only 6s, it is actually pretty pointless to talk about durations.