DRGs need a silence too!

hey guys i believe dragoons need a silence as well. in turn two pugs i am always shunned for not having a silence. the only reason they bring me is because of my 10% peircing damage and 250 constant dps.

i think a silence would even the playing field for our class. we would not need 2 bard parties for turn 2

I believe blm and smn, bah include SCH and WHM, also needs silence.

/satire

I don't think this will be a good idea.

Just make ADS stunnable and that solves the problem.

Just run double BRDs, then DRG is desireable.

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Originally Posted by Thorauku

I believe blm and smn, bah include SCH and WHM, also needs silence.

/satire

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SCH do have a silence.

Why? 1 BRD, 1 PLD. Problem solved.

No it doesn't. Just no. My main is DRG, and I know that - while I'd like one - DRG doesn't actually NEED it. We're fine as we are right now.

Yeah, i don't want a silence, i'd rather focus on dishing out lots of dps and let the silencers keep silencing. Also we have two melee monk and drg. Both plds silence and the bard is back up, sorry people are picky in your server.

Not going to happen

You are a damage dealer. Not a supporter.

If you need silence to able to join a party for turn 2 then you are bad.

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Originally Posted by Sterob

If you need silence to able to join a party for turn 2 then you are bad.

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Not true. His Paladin/s bard/s are bad then.

I agree drg does not need silence. It would be nice however if stun had a higher success/lower resistance gain. Given the abilities we have available its apparent we are intended to slow mobs down while dps. Our stun when it works start gettin resisted after2-3 uses. Feint a sharable skill unique in applying slow is so useless due to emunities I and most other drgs I know dont set it.

Well played, OP. People think you're serious.

It would be cool if dragoons got a silence at some point, but honestly when I'm on dragoon instead of my bard I'm glad I don't have to worry about silences. :p

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Originally Posted by BrandoH

Just run double BRDs, then DRG is desireable.

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My group runs double bards and it makes me sad that I am monk and not drg.

IDK...I mean, it would give us a little more flexibility in fights like ADS/Chimera...but at the same time, just no. I hated being forced into stun rotations on Ifrit HM (because the MT WAR loved to refuse to stun...) and with our rotations being as they are, another thing to worry about just isn't a good thing...

You don't need double bards for coil at all.

So... for all the post that I readed, the dragons need: immunity on the jumps, short animation, damage buff, less positional requirements, silence, teleport, the ability to summon Exodia and a rainbow pony.
Please tell the truth you only want to be OP.

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Originally Posted by Leon_Stormrage

So... for all the post that I readed, the dragons need: immunity on the jumps, short animation, damage buff, less positional requirements, silence, teleport, the ability to summon Exodia and a rainbow pony.
Please tell the truth you only want to be OP.

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Am I the only one who sees the irony here?

eh maybe. I don't think dragoons should be trusted with a stun, switch it to silence for no reason.

It was an interesting decision to require silence during that segment.

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Originally Posted by PArcher

Am I the only one who sees the irony here?

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Yep.
Unless all of your experience revolves around ilvl 70 geared players running Titan, in which case there might be some irony.

(Bard lags behind the top DPS classes by upwards of 20% in later content as median gear levels approach ilvl90)

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Originally Posted by PArcher

Am I the only one who sees the irony here?

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If you say it because I am Bard, I need to let you know that we are not OP. We are desirable because we have utility and good damage but this is going to change and I think that will be good, but the most of the dragoon post asking for things are a little ridiculous... I will be glad if the people stop stacking one class and let an spot for dragoon and monks, is incredible helpful one drgoon in the party! And not for the buff but yes for the great damage that they have, the dragoon on my coil group always parse more than 250

Double BRD is not require for T2, Hex you can run it with no BRD. I ran T2 with 2 PLD work just fine, in Fact it simplify thing. Most of the time Tank swapping happen after HV Silent. (with the exception of ADS, but that not really and issue.

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Originally Posted by Bardo

Yep.
Unless all of your experience revolves around ilvl 70 geared players running Titan, in which case there might be some irony.

(Bard lags behind the top DPS classes by upwards of 20% in later content as median gear levels approach ilvl90)

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If only your role was straight-up DPS like mine is...you'd have an argument then. No, you're needed thanks to your utility; if anything, your DPS probably should fall more so that people will take other DPS on raids rather than stack BRD.

And yes, I know you don't need double BRD in Coil, just like you don't need double PAL...just makes things easier in certain situations.

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Originally Posted by PArcher

If only your role was straight-up DPS like mine is...you'd have an argument then. No, you're needed thanks to your utility; if anything, your DPS probably should fall more so that people will take other DPS on raids rather than stack BRD.

And yes, I know you don't need double BRD in Coil, just like you don't need double PAL...just makes things easier in certain situations.

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I need to disagree, the Bard dps doesn't need to fall more. Is like "the bard dps should fall because this way the mediocre dragoons can have an spot" and this doesn't work. So, decrease the bard damage so we can have an spot to the dragoon that have bad dmg and all wipe in ADS YAY!

Even tho we don't need one, it wouldn't kill for us to have one. In fact, it'd make more sense. Monks have one, but for them its more of a hassle due to their rotations. Plus for them to focus on silencing over greased lightning, their dps loss would be worse than ours, if we were the ones to have a usable at the ready silence instead. 'That' would be the good reason enough for us to be the melee with silence to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Leon_Stormrage

I need to disagree, the Bard dps doesn't need to fall more. Is like "the bard dps should fall because this way the mediocre dragoons can have an spot" and this doesn't work. So, decrease the bard damage so we can have an spot to the dragoon that have bad dmg and all wipe in ADS YAY!

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Lol, its hard to say who is mediocre and who is not when groups don't give even Allagan-equipped DRG a chance.

Until BRD gets a nerf, it doesn't make sense to take a positional into certain fights when you can bring double BRD and make it easier.

And I would love to see you try to get into groups as a DRG...if you even bother to level it for BFB (yeah...no BFB on you? That's just...wow...)

This reminds me of when I played SWOTR. I played a commando and they were if I recall, the only dps that didn't have a silence. Of course, commandos wanted one because silencing an enemy can be very helpful to the group. People that didn't play commandos said, "You don't need one, just have someone else silence. They didn't give commando one for a reason." Well long story short, they ended up giving commandos a silence. Did anything change in group dynamics? Were different classes excluded in raiding content because commandos could now silence? No. Nothing changed except for the fact that groups had another person that could silence. So basically, there's no point in saying drg shouldn't get one because all it would do is make group content have another person of any class be able to help interrupt attacks.

Hmmm ... wrong birds with wrong stones.

Generally speaking, the entire "silence is mandatory" + "only Bards and Paladins can silence" (with a side of Monk) is kind of silly, but is not an inherently major problem, since you sort of always want a PLD+BRD in an 8-man.

Adding a silence to DRG would improve DRG utility, but not in any major or meaningful way, IMO. I'd much prefer a buff to DRG utility via something -- anything -- else, like a group damage buff or enemy damage debuff. Silence, as annoying as it is, is already sufficiently covered for groups.

Basically, make feint work on bosses, and since it doesn't (and the fact that Feint working on bosses is a bad idea / balance problem), make it into a more generic/useful debuff that actually works on bosses. For example, have Feint inflict a 5% damage debuff (for all damage types). This would require maintenance by the DRG but offer a group damage boost.

I mean, that's about the most uncreative and generic offensive utility that I could possibly think of, but it's better than getting a silence.

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Originally Posted by PArcher

If only your role was straight-up DPS like mine is...you'd have an argument then. No, you're needed thanks to your utility; if anything, your DPS probably should fall more so that people will take other DPS on raids rather than stack BRD.

And yes, I know you don't need double BRD in Coil, just like you don't need double PAL...just makes things easier in certain situations.

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If two bards are ideal for coil what are the other two DPS slots given to?

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Originally Posted by PArcher

Lol, its hard to say who is mediocre and who is not when groups don't give even Allagan-equipped DRG a chance.

Until BRD gets a nerf, it doesn't make sense to take a positional into certain fights when you can bring double BRD and make it easier.

And I would love to see you try to get into groups as a DRG...if you even bother to level it for BFB (yeah...no BFB on you? That's just...wow...)

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I don't want to fight, and I am not saying that the dragoons have bad Dps, I said it a few post before: we always run with one dragoon because his damage is so great! The fact that some people don't know how to play as dragoon is true but some other do it great, the difference is that if you aren't so good as bard it is not noticeable because is easier and for this reason we have less damage.
Also I don't have BFB and I am not going to have it till 2.1 because probably SE is going to remove dragoon of the bard cross class and I really didn't enjoy playing as dragoon

Also the way that you want to solve the issue is the worst about all the dragoon post in the forums "we want a spot so remove the bards of the game"
When the real problem are the fight mechanics

Can you follow me on this one?

If bard damage gets nerfed, then dragoon will be less useful as well because the piercing damage debuff will be less meaningful.

I think if they really wanted to give DRGs a bit of utility, they could give them a skill to sacrifice their MP to give it to someone else. It always struck me as odd that DRGs have a somewhat high MP pool yet not a single way to use it.

I think such a skill could open up some new team synergies. On one hand you would have a second class to dabble into MP support to ease up a bit on on the high demand on BRDs and on the other hand it would synergize extremely well with BRDs themselves - let them sing requiem to buff the mages and when the group runs low on MP pop DRGs regen on the BRD so he can sing Ballad (which would also refill the DRGs pool for another use). Just an idea.

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Originally Posted by Leon_Stormrage

I don't want to fight, and I am not saying that the dragoons have bad Dps, I said it a few post before: we always run with one dragoon because his damage is so great! The fact that some people don't know how to play as dragoon is true but some other do it great, the difference is that if you aren't so good as bard it is not noticeable because is easier and for this reason we have less damage.
Also I don't have BFB and I am not going to have it till 2.1 because probably SE is going to remove dragoon of the bard cross class and I really didn't enjoy playing as dragoon

Also the way that you want to solve the issue is the worst about all the dragoon post in the forums "we want a spot so remove the bards of the game"
When the real problem are the fight mechanics

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Funny part is, with bards out of the game people will just use blm and smn. If ff14 is like any other MMO. they won't stop untill Mages are the undisputed BEST all around class.

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Originally Posted by Akirakogami

Funny part is, with bards out of the game people will just use blm and smn. If ff14 is like any other MMO. they won't stop untill Mages are the undisputed BEST all around class.

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Other thing that they don't think is that the content is designed to run it with one bard despite that it can be done with 0. If you need the bard you will have to lost one dps spot only to carry a battery :S

Personally i think dragoons damage are fine and if you know how to "use" a dragoon well your damage will be very nice. Its those people who don't know how to use a dragoon. Personally if your having trouble as a dragoon to find a coil group do not pug one, just find a fc who is looking for a melee dps honestly it shouldn't be that hard, and some groups use two bards but im sure alot of groups dont. I love my dragoon and he is great the way he is now, i also don't feel bards should be nerfed.

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Originally Posted by PArcher

if anything, your DPS probably should fall more so that people will take other DPS on raids rather than stack BRD.

And yes, I know you don't need double BRD in Coil, just like you don't need double PAL...just makes things easier in certain situations.

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The ONLY reason where double Bard makes anything easier is on ADS. That has NOTHING to do with DPS.

Yoshi P. - We’ll be making adjustments to recast times for lancer and dragoon, reducing the time in which movement is locked after jumping, and improving the area where dragoons land after jumping. Overall they will be receiving a 10% DPS boost.

So DRG is now going to be 30%+ ahead of Bard even before any Bard nerfs come into effect.
At endgame, that's over 60 DPS. Are you SERIOUSLY going to tell me that 60+ DPS (and don't forget about your dps Limit break, which Bards don't get) isn't enough to balance out Ballad?
Come on now.

Yoshi P. - We have made adjustments to certain cross class actions that the bards can set.
So it sounds like they're not going to nerf mobility, but we'll probably lose access to Blood 4 Blood, meaning DRG will probably have closer to a 35% dps lead. : /

Bard and DRG don't even compete for dps spots; no one is bringing BRD to coil for DPS, so its not really an issue. It's MNK that is currently the clear choice for melee dps, and MNK is also getting buffed now, so it'll still be ahead of DRG come 2.1. It also has a -INT debuff on the mob to further cement its role as most desired melee. No one really gives 2 fucks about disembowel bonus from what i've experienced.

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Originally Posted by matic

It's MNK that is currently the clear choice for melee dps, and MNK is also getting buffed now, so it'll still be ahead of DRG come 2.1.

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Not necessarily. If they nerf un-traited Blood 4 Blood, then that will be a slight dps nerf for MNK as well.
We'll just have to see what the changes are for Greased Lightning, the positional bonus, and what they end up doing to Bard cross class skills.