Hello! I'm a paladin about ready to undertake Titan HM, but I've been having a hard time finding any guides on the subject specifically for tanks. From the videos I've watched, it doesn't seem like we have it as hard as other roles during the fight, but I hate to go in unprepared. Can anyone offer any advice or strategy to help me prepare? Were their any guides that helped you? Thanks in advance for any help! I appreciate it!
Advice on Tanking Titan?
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11-21-2013, 07:15 AMWellFooledAdvice on Tanking Titan?
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11-21-2013, 07:18 AMmythicrose
There's a nice graph floating around out there. Sadly, I don't have it have it handy right now. In essence...you just stand at the edge of his area each phase, pop cooldowns for mountain burster, and dodge bombs if you're not asleep by that point.
Curious why you wouldn't start with FoF, shield lob, CoS then Halone combo? Provoke and uncomboed halone would hinder your emnity more than assist.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lex_Luger
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11-21-2013, 07:19 AMLex_Luger
During phase 4, the heart phase, it's important to grab snap aggro fast, because you'll have DPS going balls deep, and healers dropping huge heals from the previous phase change. I usually spam tab until the heart is targetable, toss a shield lob, as soon as it gets to me, I provoke+uncomboed halone just in case anyone has over taken my hate lead in that split second, spirits within, and CoS, and then start my regular halone combo. Other than that, in phase 5 if you see landslide, you know a mountain buster is coming. I usually throw a flash out right before buster, and I typically dodge about 1 buster per fight depending on its length and the quality of DPS. You can time Rampart so it lasts through the Heart>Phase 5 AoE from phase shift, Buster, and Stomps, which is a great way to start the 5th and final phase.
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11-21-2013, 07:42 AMsoshifood
How viable would it be for a Paladin to use Stoneskin right before Titan's Mountain Buster? I'm curious about this from the tank's standpoint.
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11-21-2013, 07:44 AMWellFooledThanks for the replies guys! So it really is just a tank and spank for the most part. Is there any more specific advice you can give me on dodging the bombs? You don't seem too worried about them :PQuote:
Originally Posted by mythicrose
And thanks Lex for the tips! I'll defiantly grab aggro as quickly as possible, I wouldn't have thought hate resets during the heart phase, so its good to have a heads up :O -
11-21-2013, 07:49 AMmythicroseIt depends on how confident you are in yourself, healers, etc. You can eat a bomb and mountain burster if you have cooldowns ready and healers on the ball. For the line pattern of bombs (which seems to be the biggest concern for dodging), you can run to the bomb that is going to explode next once you since Titan finish casting landslide for zero damage. One caveat.. you have a chance of Titan cleaving team mates if/when you return to your original position.Quote:
Originally Posted by WellFooled
Edit : Addonex, kudos for the chart. -
11-21-2013, 07:53 AMAddonex
http://i.imgur.com/KP8wXYZ.png
That covers it pretty well.
In all honesty though, biggest thing you can do before the final phase is maximize your aggro. Start the fight with Fight or Flight, because WHM healing aggro is a serious issue at certain gear levels before you reach the final phase (when they've been able to drop aggro twice with Shroud). Once you get past the Heart phase, you're only real job is minimizing the damage you take from bombs and using cooldowns appropriately on mountain buster (which as noted previously, always follows landslide).
Bombs can be dodged either by dancing the bombs accordingly (Titan won't cleave until shortly after the bombs finish exploding, so you can always have him appropriately repositioned if you do this) or you can find the sweet spot to stand in between bombs to be just out of the blast range. The second method is what many tanks try to do that often gets them double bombed and killed. Typically, the ideal position is going to have you standing w/ half/most of your body hanging over the edge. If you're worried about this, pop rampart the first few times you try this, that way if you screw up and eat two bombs, you still have a chance at living and it'll last long enough to be up for the following cleave + mountain buster you want it for anyways.
Once you're set on aggro and positioning, the above picture is a pretty accurate depiction of what the fight feels like for a tank.
Final tips:
Having stoneskin cross-classed here helps. You have ample time in the last phase to use it on yourself or others to help the healers out. Might need to communicate with healers, I personally think it's better to have the PLD SS himself and let the WHM stick to heals since they're more mana efficient anyways.
The last phase involves 5 plumes. If enough players die, the tank will become a target for these. So be ready to dance if this happens.
Addonex -
11-21-2013, 08:03 AMLex_Luger
FoF/BB are a given, so I didn't list them. Perhaps you didn't fully read my post, because I explained exactly why I do what I do. The first attack in the Halone combo has no enmity bonus attached to it. It's just like any other DPS's regular attack, expect you're not wearing DPS gear, so its pretty inferior. Halone has a 5x enmity modifier on it, which means even a 100dmg Halone, will generate 500 enmity, where as your 100 damage fast blade genereates... 100 enmity. This is really only effective because the only time your enmity will be suspect is before you land the first combo. By Shield lobbing, spirits within, circle of scorn, and doing a RoH, in 2 GCD's you have given yourself a sizeable aggro lead while your DPS start pounding away. During the phase3/phase4 shift, your healers are tossing huge medicas right around the time your shield lob is landing, as titans heart takes a moment before it is targetable. This is why you can shield lob, and loose aggro briefly before securing it if you aren't quick to react. Obviously, all of this depends upon the gear level of the tank vs the gear level of the DPS, but its a method thats been 100% tried and true for me for countless titan kills.
There were times where Shield LoB (SW/CoS on GCD cool down) and then starting my halone combo would hold aggro, and there were times where he would flash orange or yellow for a second, before the 2nd and 3rd part of the halone combo land. By doing Shield LoB (SW/CoS on GCD CD) and opening with a RoH instead of Fast blade, I have NEVER lost aggro, even for a split second, during those initial moments of the heart phase. -
11-21-2013, 08:16 AMWellFooled
Ha, thanks for the chart Addonex xD I'm feeling a lot more confident after reading everyone's suggestions. Thank you so much for taking the time. Sounds like if I can grab aggro quickly enough for the heart phase and find the sweet spot between bombs I should be alright. Still nervous mind you, but much less now thanks to all the help!
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11-21-2013, 08:33 AMZoomieShield lob and RoH are both wastes of the GCD imho. Regardless of whether or not you have issues it still holds true. You can land CoS and flash before you can even target titan. By the time you can actually target him you can just Spirits Within and enter your RoH chain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lex_Luger
FoF/BB, Flash, CoS, SW, enmity combo. -
11-21-2013, 08:43 AMMaqaqa
I main WAR but when i brought my PLD on Titan i have been told to Flash righte before Stomp and Mountain Buster. Not to hold hate but to cause Titan to miss.
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11-21-2013, 08:47 AMLex_Luger
Sigh. Why does no one understand? Wastes of GCD? So you suggest running into the center and starting your combo in the center the arena while packpeddling titan to get him into position? I don't know about you, but especially if I'm playing with people I don't know well (in regards to their dodging ability and overall skill) I'll air on the side of caution and give them as much of an area to dodge attacks as possible. I.e. stand as far back as possible and shield lob. Shield LoB + Uncomboed Halone is more snap aggro than the first 2 parts of your halone combo, and like I said, should be the only point during the fight where hate is at all sketchy. I've also tanked a lot of 1 healer titans, so aggro is even a bigger issue with all the healing enmity coming from 1 person, and being able to out aggro the healer during those 2 GCD's where things can possibly can go wrong, is a safer bet.
As I stated earlier. I've done it both it ways. One works for me 100% of the time, one hasn't. Thats all the evidence (and the math to back it up) I can go by. -
11-21-2013, 09:04 AMSigrunn
Yes you can flash Titan before table flip and you'll get a chance to dodge it. But you should still pop a mitigation CD for it. Save your Spirits Within on phase 2 for tumults (spam it on the 3rd stomp).
If you are having trouble maintaining aggro during jumps, use FoF/Provoke/Shield Lob after Medica. -
11-21-2013, 09:55 AMTraek
What are you guys even arguing about? Titan pickup on heart phase? He doesn't have a threat table there.. He goes to the person who had hate before jump.. so ya.. doesn't matter. I pull hate asap on my brd all the time getting out DD. As a tank I just stand there and let him come to me. No hurry except to pull some DD if group is low dps.
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11-21-2013, 10:03 AMLex_LugerTitan doesnt have a threat table, but the heart does. I've seen weaker geared paladins have trouble securing aggro during the first few moments of heart phase if they aren't quick to react, or build snap aggro. This becomes an issues if not dealt with immediately because than plumes can and will target the tank, if he hasn't established top threat by then. Also, the Red/Orange/Yellow aggro indicators seem to lag behind, and the gauges in the party frame do seem to be slightly more responsive. He'll, I've even seen rock golems in turn 1 spin around, 1 shot a dps, and spin back to me, all without my threat indicator ever going off red.Quote:
Originally Posted by Traek
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11-21-2013, 10:09 AMTraek
So you are freaking out over a plume..? I've had plumes happen before, you walk out. Not hard.
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11-21-2013, 10:11 AMLex_LugerJesus christ man, reading comprehension. Who's freaking out? No ones freaking out. Dude asked for titan tips on paladin. I gave titan tips on paladin. I've tanked titan from 50% to death as part of a 5 man, dodging plumes from 50% to death without being hit... not hard, but I've also done titan 100+ times. If someone is asking for tips, chances are they are new to a fight, and if you've never dodged plumes as a DPS before, and especially until you get comfortable with the fight, the last thing a brand new tank needs to worry about is dodging plumes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Traek
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11-21-2013, 10:28 AMTraek
Chances are, if someone is new to Titan, they don't need to omgfreakoutsnapaggroeorweallwipe when heart phase happens. So you are arguing over stupid things. Still.
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11-21-2013, 10:59 AMWowSuchName
I don't even get why SE design 2 tanks for Titan HM duty finder...
I guess SE designed the 2 tanks (MT/ST) to rotate after 1st mountain buster?
Addonex simply described all what tanks need to do... just memorize the rotation after heart phase. -
11-21-2013, 12:15 PMWellFooledI defiantly appreciated the heads up Lex is giving me. Not only did he tell me what the watch out for, but also how to counter it. I don't think anyone is arguing in this thread, just different tanks with different ideas on how to accomplish things and I'm all for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Traek
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11-21-2013, 12:21 PMGremboProper viable.Quote:
Originally Posted by soshifood
Mountain Buster comes right after landslide so you have plenty of time to cast stoneskin during the landslide animation. I normally just stoneskin > flash whenever I see landslide start up.
Save your cooldowns for boulders or if someone triggers a plume underneath you, not like you need the cd's to survive any of the attacks directed at the tank. -
11-21-2013, 05:55 PMPetiteMalFleurThis chart is so awesome. Thank you for the laugh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Addonex