Hello everyone, first time posting here and I thought I would give my opinion on this hot topic of Warrior issues. First I would like to see if I can get a general consensus from warriors out there as I have seen several posts that are trying to make a warrior be a clone of a paladin or asking for OP changes. Below is a list of some key points I would like to address:
1. Paladin's Motto "Oh Crap! Big damage incoming, I better use a cooldown"
Warrior's Motto " Oh Crap! I just got hit by Big Damage, I better use this ability"
2. Issues with current warrior skills:
-Paladin Enmity combo naturally applies a strength reducing debuff, but for warrior to add slash resist they have to use a Non-Tanking combo. This is an example where they should have a similar style, yet be unique. Slash resist should be part of Butcher's Block.
What is the Underlying Issue about Warrior?
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11-19-2013, 04:32 PMMitigationWhat is the Underlying Issue about Warrior?
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11-19-2013, 04:33 PMMitigation
3. Cooldowns: Warriors can be altered by either tweaking current abilities or adding cooldowns. However, when I mean cooldowns I do not mean defensive ones like the Paladin, but rather keep to the above mentioned Warrior Motto of reactive abilities.
4. Wrath should be used to allow a skilled warrior to shine by making good choices on how to spend wrath instead of just forcing them keep stacks for the healing and critical damage buff. Healing % should be included in defiance as 20%~25% -
11-19-2013, 04:34 PMMitigation
5. Improve wrath abilities or make current abilities use up less wrath stacks.
-Steel Cyclone: Increase enmity value and add a healing component based on # of enemies hit, or a nice debuff like flash blind, but instead make it have a warrior flavor. Could be increased damage by 10% for x amount of seconds.
-Unchained: not a very useful buff. Can increase enmity but warrior is not trying to do more damage, but rather have more of a tanking application. Remove the wrath stack requirement and change this to a 60 second cooldown.
-Infuriate: Solid as is, could add a small defensive buff for short duration when you use it. 10% reduce damage for 15 seconds or 20% increased healing for 15 seconds. The numbers can be adjusted but you get the idea.
6. Stronger Cross Class Skills: Warrior should have access to other Paladin skills like Rampart at the least. -
11-19-2013, 05:25 PMDragonsoad
A lot of it has to do with Bloodbath and Storm's Path being very lackluster as a reliable tanking CD as opposed to Sentinel and Hallowed Ground.
This is ignoring that Mercy Stroke is a chance skill that sees no uses (outside of it's damage) on a boss fight with no adds, Unchained is incredibly lackluster for a 180 second CD, Steel Cyclone only does damage and nothing else (which for a tank doesn't make sense).
Thrill of Battle is worse in every way compared to Rampart, Foresight is the worst tanking CD in the game by quite a bit. The damage on Vengeance and Brutal Swing is hugely underwhelming to say the least.
PLD can do speed runs faster due to Riot Blade giving them MP to cast more flashes, Berserk is straight up worse than Fight or Flight in every way.
Storm's Eye duration is at a very awkward 15 seconds meaning we have to clip the Maim trait in order to keep it up.
Holmgang while having some neat uses, has way too long of a CD to use with any regularity.
Honestly though, I love the play style but right now warriors are a mess.
Most of these could be fixed pretty easily, but we just need more CDs (or something alternative) to balance out the eHP difference and healing on damage done needs to be changed to damage received while in defiance. -
11-20-2013, 06:40 AMMarxam
I almost feel that everything could be solved if warrior had 9999 hp.
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11-20-2013, 07:04 AMKitru
You can break the 1k character limit by editing your post. Makes it much easier to read.
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11-20-2013, 07:09 AMEbon_Drake
What is the underlying issue with Warrior?
That's easy,
They were/are spoiled children used to always getting their own way and being important in 1.0 and now they're pouty pants that they're not best/#1 tank so lots of tears/crying. -
11-20-2013, 07:16 AMPaikisDefiance should give more HP than just 25%. If you're going to be a soak tank, you should have more buffer than the mitigation tank.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marxam
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11-20-2013, 07:26 AMShinkyoHow about all the new 2.0 players that never experienced how good WAR used to be and are also complaining about the imbalance with PLD?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebon_Drake
I don't want to be #1 in survavibility, I just want to be able to do the same content and not have people say "Crap, we have a WAR tank in our group...". -
11-20-2013, 07:50 AMZDamnedThis is the most important thing posted here. All we want is to be taken seriously. People keep telling me to get my Paladin Relic +1 instead of my Warrior gear, and that I picked the wrong class. I want to be considered a Tank if I can't be a DPS class, now as it stands, I am a joke to the community, just because of a small eHP difference, and a TOTAL LACK of effective cooldowns.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinkyo
My FC's DPS players always say "Yes! The tank got Gaul'd" when I help out in Titan as my Warrior with some Paladin Tanking... The sad thing about that statement, consistently, is that I'm 2nd or 3rd on the Damage Parser at that point. (Not DPS, but Damage DONE!) Only behind Bards, or a well geared Monk.
We just want to be taken seriously, because even the tremendous utility of Storms Eye for Paladins is something that most people flat out ignore. So, I'm being forced to take my Paladin instead of Warrior to Off tank coil.
I have also been told I should ask for a gear swap to change all my Warrior's gear to Valor. =( -
11-20-2013, 07:53 AMRochetmBloodbath and Storm's Path being a giant joke is the biggest issue. Both of those abilities need MASSIVE boosts to be anywhere near as good as Pld cooldowns.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonsoad
I enjoy war as well but they suck. Anyone that has Pld and War to 50 knows this... the difference between then is giant. How don't know how SE things you look cool as a warrior being carried by healers. -
11-20-2013, 07:58 AMHundred
The underlying issue with WAR is that his skills are underpowered relative to the PLD. That is it. You'll hear static vs dynamic but it's not the starting issue here, that comes in later and is relevent but not the forefront. A lot of the times you'll find as MRD/WAR questioning how effective a skill is even early game. When you have this issue it follows us later throughout the game.
`Foresight feeling irrelevant at level 3? That's not going to change.
`Went through copperbell and bloodbath didn't feel significant unless you hit with overpower? Welcome to the rest of the game.
` Went to Cutters cry with your fancy new Storm Path and found out it was ass? That wont change.
` Rocking that Holmgang in Stone Vigil? Wasting your time.
` Thrill of the battle not to shabby eh? Yeah wait till you see Sentinel which is given in the same level bracket. Not as strong at all, and unfortunately there isn't many ways to abuse your higher health vs PLD since shields factor in mitigation.
` Steel cyclone kinda forgettable unless you overgear the content? Oh well
` Mercy stroke demanding an unreasonable amount of co-ordination from your teammates in Haukke Manor for you to get the heal on some skeleton? That won't change 20 levels later.
` Took you a half hour for Brutal swing to stun and then something else you need to stun pops up 10 seconds later? It'll be like that the whole game.
WAR has underpowered skills. Then you factor in that the healing isn't proportional to what they deal with (which wouldnt be unreasonable if PLD was pressured to the same extent, but they are not). -
11-20-2013, 07:59 AMRochetmFind new dps.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZDamned
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11-20-2013, 07:59 AMEbon_DrakeI liked your post. I know that feel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinkyo
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11-20-2013, 08:12 AMPaikisI should point out, that I have tanked everything in coil as a Warrior. All of it except the Dreadnaughts in turn 4 and Twintania is doable in full Darklight (I had Myth chest/Hoplite helm for some of it, but that's so minor it almost doesn't count) and everything is doable once you have some gear. Yes you will get hit harder than a Paladin, but it is 100% doable, and BC was balanced around Warriors anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZDamned
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11-20-2013, 08:17 AMZDamnedTell that to 98% of the community out there. >.<Quote:
Originally Posted by Paikis
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11-20-2013, 08:27 AMPaikisA bad Paladin is still easy to faceroll your way to victory. A bad Warrior will fold like a cheap shirt, and people will notice. A good Warrior can tank anything in the game, a good Paladin will do it a bit easier.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZDamned
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11-20-2013, 08:29 AMNoctisUmbra
What is the Underlying Issue about Warrior?
Started by Mitigation
Ironic. -
11-20-2013, 08:35 AMKitruYour "bit easier" is actually pretty friggin' massive, given how PLD mitigation is primarily proactive so that it's actually useful against Coil's monumental amount of burst damage and also mitigates *more* damage because it scales with incoming damage rather than being balanced around 4 man content. I've tank on both my WAR and my PLD in Coil. If you're not in a not in a situation where you have to use your CDs, WAR and PLD are going to be pretty well matched; as soon as the damage gets high enough that you *have* to start throwing down CDs to survive, WAR becomes useless because their CD suite is only marginally better than DRG's and MNK's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paikis
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11-20-2013, 10:09 AMJeTaisNoobie
I've had my group tell me I had to buy valor stuff for my paladin and I hated that idea. I can already MT twintania but having 2 pieces of hoplite gear looks really bad on a character sheet since having it replaced with myth items could make life easier for healers. Eventually, my group understood the consequences of my purchasing of pally myth items, considering the upcoming warrior patch in 2.1.
I just hope that all warriors with Pallys as their sub class will meet mates as understanding as mine. -
11-20-2013, 10:10 AMMBTL90I don't know how wars are supposed to do it with their CD's. I MT Twintania, and If me or my healers aren't paying attention, I still can get gibbed by Death Sentence combos. Granted, I have had absolutely terrible luck with drops out of BC, but I'm still wearing 6 pieces of i90 gear, and have 6.4kish hp(which will jump tonight, either with more drops or with me buying my 5th piece of valor).Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitru
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11-20-2013, 10:49 AMKitruThat's how my group has handled it. They don't expect me to spend any myth tomes on PLD since they know that WAR is my main, even if they always need me to bring PLD (our t4 strat could actually use a WAR as MT and PLD as OT, but the other tank can't kite/joust as well as I can). Thankfully, the Allagan stuff can be used on both so every piece I get out of Coil works for both of my classes.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeTaisNoobie