[dev] HQ Algorithm

I would like to know how you figure your HQ % based on Quality of synthed items that are non-touchupable synths...

Here are some of my recent results...

I had 45 Walnut Logs +1 to +3
I wanted to make HQ walnut lumber, I'm R50 Carp with R47 +1 offhand tool.

I completed ALL 45 logs with a minimum of 250 quality each one...

NQ: 41
+1: 3
+2: 1

How can this be? 250+ quality on each one? Some over 500 quality... If I could touch up these items, I bet the HQ rate would be a little higher. Either need the touch up option to the parts/non-finished items, or a way to have a more consistent result.

I am now in process of making Walnut Hammer Grips, trying for HQ, finishing with avg 200+ quality, my HQ result is maybe 5%, so far no +2's or above, I'm not done with my stack of walnut lumber yet, so cant give 100% accurate results on this one.

Anyone else share my frustration?

Please address this issue... thanx...

I'm still wondering if nature and position influences it. (^,^)
I hope you get answers!!!

Like the rest of the game it seems to be completely random based on rank.

Also, HQ'd 2 of 10 synths for shards with less than 100 quality today.

It's not completely random based on rank at all. HQ results are based on quality first and THEN there is a random factor. You aren't going to get a +2 unless your quality is of at least 70 or so or a +3 without around 170+ which rules out "completely random". Additionally the higher this quality gets the higher your chance of a +1. I believe it works the same with +2s and +3s. You notice this more when HQing finished items. I noticed it lots when I was making oak lumber from +3 and +2 logs too however. I was HQing like crazy and this could only be explained by the high quality I was achieving (450+).

Problem with materials and parts isn't the HQ formula but the other thing the OP listed. The lack of a touch up. I don't see why this can't be added for materials and parts. It doesn't even have to be as powerful as the one for finished items. But enough to give you a few more rolls of finishing the item to try for HQ.

I'd hate to see the random factor taken away because you'd have to nerf HQ mats to the point that they're an even bigger pain in the ass to farm if 300 quality was automatic +3. You'd also have to remove bold or everything would be +3ed. Sometimes in games a random factor isn't a bad thing. It's the same in real life. You might make ten pairs of shoes but one pair might be so well put together that they last a few years longer than the rest. You don't know which pair that will be before you make them.

it is very annoying to go out and take the time to get all hq mats for a finished item and finish the synth with 400+ quality and do many touchups and not even get a +1 out of it.

i had suggested a while ago that the hq mats should only add extra durability instead of quatlity. it would then actually take skill to get an item high enough for a high hq. i also agree completely that any item you synth should have the touch up option for additional tries at a hq.

Touch up is for finished products. It's a realistic pattern. No one is putting detail into lumber...but they will put detail into a mask, or a wand, etc. That's common sense of people translated into game terms. The items that are meant to last are what are allowed to be touched up.

I'd like to state that the majority of my crafts do not involve touch up. I am mostly culinarian and alchemist, yet I am not outraged or feel it's unfair that I do not have touch up. It makes sense because not only are the products we are making basically 'consumable' but they are also several in number. It doesn't make sense to be touching up 6 tuna Miqa'bobs...but it would make sense to touch up something that can only stack to 1. If there were like a magical birthday cake that I could make that could only stack to 1, then I definitely think I should have it for touch up. Otherwise, it really doesn't make any sense.

Edit: Also, at a high rank, even with NQ materials you can aim for HQ results, depending on the synth, so it isn't 'necessary' to be making all your lumber +2 or +3, nor would it make much sense to be doing so in an easier fashion. It's from a mass production standpoint that makes those synths quantity over quality. If you happen to get HQ results then that is really lucky and showing your original materials + your skill bringing quality in your 'consumable' materials.

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Originally Posted by Eldaena

Also, at a high rank, even with NQ materials you can aim for HQ results, depending on the synth, so it isn't 'necessary' to be making all your lumber +2 or +3, nor would it make much sense to be doing so in an easier fashion. It's from a mass production standpoint that makes those synths quantity over quality. If you happen to get HQ results then that is really lucky and showing your original materials + your skill bringing quality in your 'consumable' materials.

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just a simple question. doesn't HQ stand for High Quality? it doesn't make much sense to be trying to get a massive quantity for something like an assembly line to get lucky and high quality one. the thing is taking time, effort, skill, and materials are all contributing factors into making a high quality product. that doesn't change if you are making a shirt or cooking a steak.

if i say i want a steak well done and you bring it out rare and i say i ordered it well done and you throw it back on the grill you are, in fact, touching it up. it doesn't matter if you have 50 steaks on the grill at once.

you do not go to the lumber yard and grab the first board you see if you are trying to make finished items to be high quality. you grab the best looking piece in your price range whether it is the low end press board or imported lumber.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

just a simple question. doesn't HQ stand for High Quality? it doesn't make much sense to be trying to get a massive quantity for something like an assembly line to get lucky and high quality one. the thing is taking time, effort, skill, and materials are all contributing factors into making a high quality product. that doesn't change if you are making a shirt or cooking a steak.

if i say i want a steak well done and you bring it out rare and i say i ordered it well done and you throw it back on the grill you are, in fact, touching it up. it doesn't matter if you have 50 steaks on the grill at once.

you do not go to the lumber yard and grab the first board you see if you are trying to make finished items to be high quality. you grab the best looking piece in your price range whether it is the low end press board or imported lumber.

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But you can't go back to a grill to touch up a piece of food in this game. You can choose quality looking wood and other materials, but you cannot guarantee that the process for making lumber will come out perfectly with excellent quality lumber.

But just because lumber or other materials are not of the highest quality, doesn't mean that they can't be turned into something wonderful.

HQ materials and similar 'consumables' can assist in making HQ finished items, but they cannot guarantee it. That same non guarantee is also extended to the process of making the materials themselves, if you try to make them. (Or gathering them for that matter.)

Adding touch up to stack-able, mass production, items, would just make that process easier. Which would make getting materials for making HQ finished items easier. Which in turn would make HQ gear more common. Which in turn would make the majority of HQ items worth less because everyone would be able to either HQ them themselves or find tons of them in the wards for sale already.

They have to staunch it somewhere if they want the HQ market to be worth something at all. Making HQ finished items and materials are some of the goals of crafters...if you make it too easy to do then it loses some of it's appeal.

Last full moon I did about 40 synths with 300-450 quality:

I got 2 +3s
I got 3 +2s
I got 5 +1s

So that is a 25% success rate for HQing materials during full-moon with 300-450 quality. I generally have worse luck though.

Some randomness is good, but I agree that right now it seems just too random.

I have similar stories of getting quality over 400 plus multiple touch ups, and still just being lucky to get a +1 every now and then.

On the other hand, I've gotten HQ's when quality was under 16, or even when using Hasty Hand.

I'm hoping for an adjustment where your final Quality score will have more impact on whether or not you can end up with an HQ item.

Since bold nerf, the highest I have got was 680 quality and I didn't even get an HQ.

This issue needs to be addressed for sure...

Even in XI the HQ was a much better system... If you were 44 ranks above a synth, you had a GREAT chance to HQ... not a TINY chance... I do like this new crafting system much better than XI's, but this part of HQ needs to be addressed.

Agreed. As a fellow alchemist/culinarian, I feel completely useless when trying to contribute to making hq nm gear for my ls. Like the poster above, I agree that hqing in ffxi was much more definite. As a 99.x +3 cook, I was able to comfortably hq 50% of the time, anything 40ish ranks below me.

has anyone else noticed their ability to HQ go down lately?

It could just be my terrible luck or something but when i was level 39 I went through all the quartz i had in an attempt to get HQ gems and was able to succeed about 30% of the time, now at level 44 goldsmith I attempted to do the same thing and instead of getting a better HQ rate I actually was unable to HQ even one gem out of 20 during full moon even though every gem had a quality of over 200

They need to stop pretending that crafters are valuable resources and put the power where it belongs. On the material quality.

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Originally Posted by AuctionGirl

This issue needs to be addressed for sure...

Even in XI the HQ was a much better system... If you were 44 ranks above a synth, you had a GREAT chance to HQ... not a TINY chance... I do like this new crafting system much better than XI's, but this part of HQ needs to be addressed.

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In FFXI it was this:

Tier 0 1% chance of HQ = 0-10 levels above recipe
Tier 1 10% chance of HQ = 11 levels above recipe
Tier 2 25% chance of HQ = 31 levels above recipe
Tier 3 50% chance of HQ = 51 levels above recipe

So it was a clear cut system. Levels above recipe was the biggest factor followed by day you are synthing on, and then followed by Moon Phase. After it is all said and done though, there will always be a random factor involved in crafting. And I wouldn't spend too much time trying to figure it out now anyway. SE has already said some of the algorithms in this game are too complex and need fixing. The SP gain has already been changed a couple times, and we can bet before they settle on the final formula the current system will undergo a change also.

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Originally Posted by AuroraBorealis

has anyone else noticed their ability to HQ go down lately?

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It sure feels that way. ><

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Originally Posted by Vesperia

Since bold nerf, the highest I have got was 680 quality and I didn't even get an HQ.

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o.O What was your average quality at pre nerf? I have not been able to go past ~520 lol.