Jobless Dungeoneers

Has anyone had experience with running lv30+ dungeons with people who are using a class instead of a job? I'm fine with it in Haukke Manor, but I've run Brayflox Longstop and Sunken Temple of Qarn now with archers, gladiators and arcanists. When I questioned one of them about it, they cited the wider selection of cross-class skills (though this person was also auto-attacking for most fights). Is there any validity to this? Sure you can borrow skills from all classes, and you get twice as many compared to being on a job, but you are also missing out noteworthy stat bonuses and job specific skills.

So can anyone justify this behavior or can I just continue assuming that these people are ignorant and/or lazy?

At lv30, you have one job-specific skill. Unless that skill is super awesome, being on a class is fine (or even superior).

It is justified by case. For some classes, the cross class skill utility is better than the straight up stat increase and the first two job skills may not be useful until more jobs skills are unlocked.

I stayed as LNC until 40 because the Job skills only got useful enough at that point and the cross class skills saved me and the party.
Such as being able to cast flash to aggro mobs (Bees) off healer, stone skin healer (CNJ gets it at 34 and having someone cross-class it until then is awesome).
The loss in DPS had little overall impact vs. utility in my experience with DF raids.

But on CNJ, I changed over to White Mage asap because of the stat boost to MND for more healing over defensive cross-class buff skills. Same for MRD -> WAR for Defiance and pure stats.
Please don't assume ppl to be ignorant/lazy because of this.

this is what happens when people assume things =D

30-35: Sure, classes are still fine and are probably better anyways.
36-40: Eh, maybe towards the low range but if you're 40 you should most likely be your job by now.
41-45: Chances of you being better off as your class are slim to none, but there might be a special case for it somewhere.
46-49: You should absolutely be your job by now.
50: Lucky for you, there's no vote kick button yet.

I had one CM run with a Marauder, I was really surprised...
Yeah it does feel weird.

I learned the hard way that using a job in a low level dungeon leaves you with next to nothing skill-wise, as the level-sync annihilates all your progress above a certain level. I can imagine that some people err on the side of caution when they first get their soul crystal, for that reason alone.

I did the Thousand Maws of Toto-Rak (lv.24) as a lv.33 Paladin. That was fun.

I started wondering about that too

lvl 50 conjurer has 10 extra cross ability slots, compares to lvl 50 whm only has 5 extra slots, IMHO in low lvl dungeon, class functions better than job.

Most importantly, perhaps, Classes have far more options for those 10 cross-class slots than Jobs do with their 5; for instance, a Pugilist can theoretically have both the +Damage buff from Lancer AND the +damage buff from Archer, as well as the +Crit Chance-proccing effect; but Monk can't take cross-class skills from Archer, losing out on the two latter ones (which are also available at far earlier levels).

So the question ultimately is A. can you take advantage of the extra cross-class slots, and B. Are you sacrificing really awesome job-specific abilities/equipment in order to do so.

You guys are also forgetting the fact that just equipping the job stone boosts your stats quite a bit.

Most of the people I've asked about it so far in dungeons don't know about the job quest or haven't gotten around to leveling the supporting class. Glad to hear that there are some cases where not using a job is practical. All the classes I've leveled so far seem to be in the group of early job skills being critical. Thanks for the new perspective.

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Originally Posted by Estellios

You guys are also forgetting the fact that just equipping the job stone boosts your stats quite a bit.

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Your stats do increase, but depending on what cross-class abilities you get, it may not be much better.

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Originally Posted by Estellios

You guys are also forgetting the fact that just equipping the job stone boosts your stats quite a bit.

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Precisely this. It's amazing how many people have said "jobs give you nothing." That stat boost is nothing to scoff at.

Granted classes over jobs never bothers me when seeing people under level 35 (or even 40) without a job, but 40+ it's a bit weird. Sometimes people have been grinding fates and haven't gotten around to it, or maybe they tried to get the job and failed, then didn't go back to retry. I know a lot of archers who won't unlock bard because, "Archer being bard is stupid," and "I don't want to be a support class, I want to be ranged DD."

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Originally Posted by baopee

I started wondering about that too

lvl 50 conjurer has 10 extra cross ability slots, compares to lvl 50 whm only has 5 extra slots, IMHO in low lvl dungeon, class functions better than job.

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I swapped back down to CNJ on sub-level 30 dungeons exclusively for Quelling Strikes since you end up with inexperienced tanks more often than not. That and it's not like you're going to have any good job abilities available anyway.

I ended up with a MRD (not WAR) tank in Stone Vigil once. That was pretty painful...

I personally didn't unlock Black Mage until like 40 since the job abilities were very lackluster and I could get a bit more utility out of some cross class skills. Certain classes can get away with not swapping to a job until 35-40, but after that it's just kinda foolish not to.

I think it depends on the class. I think a tank should always go as a job. The cross class skills simply aren't worth losing the stat boost. GLA could probably get away with it in Haukke, but not in Brayflox. You're simply getting hit too hard there at the end to lose the extra VIT. And WAR gets access to some pretty useful cross class skills. Better choices, IMO, than PLD. Arguably the one argument WAR wins over PLD at the moment; until 2.1, anyway.

IMO, it's better to go as the job. The cross class skills are on cool downs, so they're not constant. They're also situational. The stat boosts are ever-present. You're either in a constant state of increased HP, increased MP, increased damage, increased ability to absorb damage, increased healing, etc. I prefer to go as the job. Even when I run low level dungeons to help others I often go as a job. WHM is extremely useful in Ifrit fight compared to CNJ. The increased healing per cast is highly noticeable.

I join WP/AK runs as Glad with full DL Garuda weapon when looking for a challenge, shit gets so boring being OP Relic PLD

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Originally Posted by Mezolitik

I learned the hard way that using a job in a low level dungeon leaves you with next to nothing skill-wise, as the level-sync annihilates all your progress above a certain level. I can imagine that some people err on the side of caution when they first get their soul crystal, for that reason alone.

I did the Thousand Maws of Toto-Rak (lv.24) as a lv.33 Paladin. That was fun.

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I tried running coppperbell with my friend as my lvl 50 whm and was confused why my holy wasnt working on the spriggans at the first boss >.<
I now have a hotbar set up with basic skills...

It really depends. CNJ should swap asap, because as long as they get Swiftcast, they're golden. The extra MND from being a WHM is a lot better than having other CCAs for them. That being said I didn't unlock WHM until like, 38, because I played the game with three friends, and when they weren't on, I'd just craft... this also explains why I still don't have Swiftcast. My priorities are pretty shameful.

The reason it took me so long to get WHM was the 15 ACN requirement. I didn't know how big of a deal WHM was compared to CNJ (hi regen), so instead of leveling ACN I'd just craft or gather.

If it wasn't obvious already, I'd advise against doing what I did.

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Originally Posted by Seezur_Undies

I tried running coppperbell with my friend as my lvl 50 whm and was confused why my holy wasnt working on the spriggans at the first boss >.<
I now have a hotbar set up with basic skills...

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Same here - have one set for single play with mainly offensive skill, one with full lvl 50 healing and support skill for dungeons and one for lower level ones.

BTW - LOVE your sig!