Post-Split, Caduceus keeps killing my pet :(

Am I correct that it's because I am placing her too close to the tank?

No reason to place the pet either way. There's very little movement in the fight.

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Originally Posted by Garnatian

No reason to place the pet either way. There's very little movement in the fight.

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Here's been my experience, which has been limited to pug groups.

Beginning of fight, I make sure not to trigger any slimes and it's a fairly easy affair.

Then the split happens, and I often find myself having to move out of the tank's way while they position the two snakes.

Often, it's one tank at one end, and another tank at the other end, and I'll place eos beside the tank assigned to me.

I place for a few reasons:

1) Been told Eos heals much better when placed

2) Keeps me away from the boss and the chance of getting attacked by the boss. I fear that my pet though is still too close, taking aoe damage, and getting killed for that reason.

You have to place Eos in the little sliver of flank that does not get tail swiped or hood swinged. Or just move her further.

Ignore #2~
u should place ur pet away from u because Acid Spit does damage to anything within the radius on impact~But u should also know that only the impact does damage to pet. It's safe to let it stay in there~
SCH should place the pet in the middle of ur duty zone. Means let the AI auto healing respond area cover most of the activity zone of ur group, so DD get heal from pet when they lure Slimes.

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Originally Posted by Forever_Learning

1) Been told Eos heals much better when placed

2) Keeps me away from the boss and the chance of getting attacked by the boss. I fear that my pet though is still too close, taking aoe damage, and getting killed for that reason.

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1) Only relevant if you're not manually healing with your pet, which you should be 24/7 and when I say 24/7 I mean you should literally be mashing that Embrace key through the entire fight.

2) You don't have to stand any where near the boss.

There is no reason to place your pet outside fights with extreme movement.

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Originally Posted by Garnatian

1) Only relevant if you're not manually healing with your pet, which you should be 24/7 and when I say 24/7 I mean you should literally be mashing that Embrace key through the entire fight.

2) You don't have to stand any where near the boss.

There is no reason to place your pet outside fights with extreme movement.

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This isnt a regular fight, he is asking BC turn 1 final, where healer usually been targeted by acid split. That attack does 1/3-1/4 HP damage to pet on impact. Which have potential to kill pet because BOSS does it often.

Your fairy isn't simply taking hate is she? We had to get a friend of mine to make sure his fairy was completely disabled when anticipating the split so she wouldn't pull immediate hate and the offtank could get a skill or two off.

1) Don't place your fairy vs. Caduceus - there's really no purpose to it.
2) Make sure your raid is properly positioning Caduceus pre-split. We find that it's far more difficult to simply engage and stand where Caduceus spawns. Take advantage of the area available to you.
3) Never stand behind Caduceus for any reason.
4) Don't spawn slimes (as a healer).

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Originally Posted by Estellios

Your fairy isn't simply taking hate is she? We had to get a friend of mine to make sure his fairy was completely disabled when anticipating the split so she wouldn't pull immediate hate and the offtank could get a skill or two off.

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I suspected that was the reason when I first posted. Let me provide a more detailed scenario that will perhaps help.

-assume phase 1 went fine
-assume the split went fine

Now I am healing my assigned tank (a warrior) and place EOS beside the tank. After a few seconds, I notice EOS is dead. I re-summon, place gain, and see EOS is dead again. I repeated this 2 more times (no joke).

It made me suspect that it was boss-related and related to positioning, as this person remarked

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Originally Posted by NeonC

You have to place Eos in the little sliver of flank that does not get tail swiped or hood swinged. Or just move her further.

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I think EOS was getting constantly hit by those.

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Originally Posted by Estellios

Your fairy isn't simply taking hate is she? We had to get a friend of mine to make sure his fairy was completely disabled when anticipating the split so she wouldn't pull immediate hate and the offtank could get a skill or two off.

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That should never be the case unless you have an incompetent Tank. Tank should have readied a combo'd Butcher's Block/Halone ready to take aggro.

Jesus lol

It couldn't possibly be because my group has barely started coil and both people were getting used to the fight. No they have to be incompetent.

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Originally Posted by Estellios

Jesus lol

It couldn't possibly be because my group has barely started coil and both people were getting used to the fight. No they have to be incompetent.

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Urmm, if you know they split it should be your first instinct. "How should I guarantee that I will generate plenty of threat on the boss as soon as he spawns", use your highest threat move. Not rocket science my friend.

Hell first time I did it I had Halone ready to pull.

Caduceus' frontal cleave will do around 3500-3600 damage to the fairy, tail swipe will hit her for like 200.

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Originally Posted by FinagleABagel

1) Don't place your fairy vs. Caduceus - there's really no purpose to it.
2) Make sure your raid is properly positioning Caduceus pre-split. We find that it's far more difficult to simply engage and stand where Caduceus spawns. Take advantage of the area available to you.
3) Never stand behind Caduceus for any reason.
4) Don't spawn slimes (as a healer).

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The only situation where you should not Place your fairy is if you are manually micromanaging Embrace. It's typically recommended to do this so that the tank receives each and every Embrace.

If you do not Place the fairy, it will not use Embrace back-to-back when it is on heeled to you.

If you Place the fairy, it may opt to heal other people besides the tank who are lower in health (in percentage).

I usually just put my fairy about a tile's length away from the tank. She doesn't seem to take much damage, if any, from acid and she does not trigger slime spawns.

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Originally Posted by Waliel

Caduceus' frontal cleave will do around 3500-3600 damage to the fairy, tail swipe will hit her for like 200.

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I do think this is what was killing her over and over.

Now I also need to figure what spell to remove from my bars to hotkey embrace :L

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Originally Posted by Forever_Learning

I do think this is what was killing her over and over.

Now I also need to figure what spell to remove from my bars to hotkey embrace :L

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I give F for Embrace, G for Sic~Easy to press and not occupied~

i manually heal with my fairy, but i still place her at the side of the boss (near the back) so that she doesn't try to heal someone who got hit by poison

it's safer to have her get hit by a tail swipe instead of a hoodswing since the tail swipe does pretty much nothing to her, but hoodswing will almost always one shot her

if your tank has to move (luckily) we are now able to command pets while casting so just move your fairy away from the boss if the tank has to turn it to jump on another platform (i have the pet bar keybound for situations like this)

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Originally Posted by Krisstina

I give F for Embrace, G for Sic~Easy to press and not occupied~

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But F is my Aetherflow and G is for mount. :OOOOOO

I personally switch between two bars with shift+1 or 2; first one has only damage spells, and the other one is only for healing spells. I also have three - four if you count the pet's - hotbars filled with skills that I like to use without switching around, like cooldowns, buffs, fairy cooldowns, Leeches, Swiftcast, etc. Every button is bound behind a key, of course.

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Originally Posted by Waliel

But F is my Aetherflow and G is for mount. :OOOOOO

I personally switch between two bars with shift+1 or 2; first one has only damage spells, and the other one is only for healing spells. I also have three - four if you count the pet's - hotbars filled with skills that I like to use without switching around, like cooldowns, buffs, fairy cooldowns, Leeches, Swiftcast, etc. Every button is bound behind a key, of course.

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How many bars do u have? Because I am using mouse over healing macro, so I dont need F1-F8 party targeting key any more. Hence I have 3 bars: 1 - =, alt+1 - alt+=, F1 - F12...Should be enough for all ur skill. Then assign ctrl+F1 - ctrl+F3 to some pet command.

I place my fairy to proc tail swipe :D

before endgame - auto healed, placed eos everywhere

at endgame - hardly ever place her, manual heal

i dont see the point in placing these days

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Originally Posted by DenzelTaru

before endgame - auto healed, placed eos everywhere

at endgame - hardly ever place her, manual heal

i dont see the point in placing these days

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AK:1st BOSS, place for AOE. 2nd BOSS, place for efficiency. 3rd BOSS, place for efficiency. Trash on 3rd floor, place for AOE.
WP: 1st BOSS, place for AOE.
CM: Cannon phase, place for efficiency. BOSS fight, place for add lure.
Garuda: rock phase, place for efficiency.
BC1: Gate keeper, place for efficiency. Final BOSS, place for efficiency.
BC2: node, place for efficiency(Depend on ur route, if left, place for AOE as well). ADS, place for efficiency.
BC4: place for add lure.

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Originally Posted by Krisstina

AK:1st BOSS, place for AOE. 2nd BOSS, place for efficiency. 3rd BOSS, place for efficiency. Trash on 3rd floor, place for AOE.
WP: 1st BOSS, place for AOE.
CM: Cannon phase, place for efficiency. BOSS fight, place for add lure.
Garuda: rock phase, place for efficiency.
BC1: Gate keeper, place for efficiency. Final BOSS, place for efficiency.
BC2: node, place for efficiency(Depend on ur route, if left, place for AOE as well). ADS, place for efficiency.
BC4: place for add lure.

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I don't think you know what "efficiency" means.

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Originally Posted by Garnatian

I don't think you know what "efficiency" means.

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I haven't read kris post but you don't know much about effieincy ever because fairies react faster on place then heel

i place her on the wall in AK.. next to a pillar on the last boss in AK.. at ifrits right foot in ifrit HM.. the rest of endgame i dont really see a point.. yea she casts aoe, but if thats what keeps your tank alive you need a new role, atm there is no huge deciding reason why i should place eos you can see here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9xGruTtzvQ i don't bother with placing, i do however manually use embrace.. i guess everyones playstyle is different

ps. when using selene the game changes, i do then place her as i cycle through her two main buffs

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Originally Posted by DenzelTaru

i place her on the wall in AK.. next to a pillar on the last boss in AK.. at ifrits right foot in ifrit HM.. the rest of endgame i dont really see a point.. yea she casts aoe, but if thats what keeps your tank alive you need a new role, atm there is no huge deciding reason why i should place eos you can see here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9xGruTtzvQ i don't bother with placing, i do however manually use embrace.. i guess everyones playstyle is different

ps. when using selene the game changes, i do then place her as i cycle through her two main buffs

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Actually, Demon Wall and Cadaceus were the only places that fairy should be placed. Anything else was optional.

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Originally Posted by Krisstina

How many bars do u have? Because I am using mouse over healing macro, so I dont need F1-F8 party targeting key any more. Hence I have 3 bars: 1 - =, alt+1 - alt+=, F1 - F12...Should be enough for all ur skill. Then assign ctrl+F1 - ctrl+F3 to some pet command.

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Technically six when my pet is out. One of them is never showing, and I intent to hide my pet bar come 2.1.

http://i.imgur.com/jDHmwah.jpg

For anyone interested. Sustain, Virus, Lustrate and Energy Drain is shared between damage and healing bars. I click the person I want to heal and use the skill next, and that makes me absolutely hate auto self cast. In WoW, I healed for god knows how many years by using skill -> target and now I have to use target -> skill. I also hate using F# keys for party targeting -- F1 is probably the only one I use.

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Originally Posted by Waliel

In WoW, I healed for god knows how many years by using skill -> target and now I have to use target -> skill. I also hate using F# keys for party targeting -- F1 is probably the only one I use.

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Then MO macro should solve ur problem_(:з」∠)_
u dont need hotkey for every command on pet bar.
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5485/1...aca96afa_o.jpg

Macros, macros and more macros(^_-)-☆
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7454/1...344d492d_o.jpg

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Originally Posted by Whippet

I haven't read kris post but you don't know much about effieincy ever because fairies react faster on place then heel

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Why do people keep saying this?

NO ONE SHOULD LET THEIR PET AUTO-CAST EMBRACE.

You should be manually using Embrace 24/7.

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Originally Posted by Garnatian

Why do people keep saying this?

NO ONE SHOULD LET THEIR PET AUTO-CAST EMBRACE.

You should be manually using Embrace 24/7.

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Placed auto-cast is sufficient for nearly everything. Manualspam Embrace also removes the option for Eos's Whispering Dawn on command (though to be fair, WD isn't really that vital on content that you might want to spam Embrace, and Selene exists).

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Originally Posted by Garnatian

Why do people keep saying this?

NO ONE SHOULD LET THEIR PET AUTO-CAST EMBRACE.

You should be manually using Embrace 24/7.

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No you should not, having her on place and let her use her embrace is the best thing you can do

At least you get more time to nuke/heal other and just have to check your fairy once per minute (selene) or 2( for EOS) depending if shes on obey or stready


Making her use embrace automaticly will not ruin your PT


ALSO placing her closes to the tank will let her mostly heal the tank since the others are to far which will be more efficient to the party

DD doesn't need cure most of the time, just make the WHM regen them and kthxbye

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

Manualspam Embrace also removes the option for Eos's Whispering Dawn on command .

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No, it does not.

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Originally Posted by Whippet

No you should not, having her on place and let her use her embrace is the best thing you can do

At least you get more time to nuke/heal other and just have to check your fairy once per minute (selene) or 2( for EOS) depending if shes on obey or stready


Making her use embrace automaticly will not ruin your PT


ALSO placing her closes to the tank will let her mostly heal the tank since the others are to far which will be more efficient to the party

DD doesn't need cure most of the time, just make the WHM regen them and kthxbye

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No, it's not. Less healing, pure and simple.

This isn't a case of not being able to do those things, it's a case of you not being good enough to do those things on top of manually using Embrace.

This is what we call laziness.

You know what else allows her to heal the Tank? That's right, manual healing.

I cannot imagine being even a remotely good healer by leaving my fairy to auto-heal whoever she pleases, her AI simply isn't that good. Maybe it was okay back when we couldn't control her while casting, but now there's no excuse. It gives you far more flexibility on who should be healed, as well as allowing you to precast heals.

On a boss like Caduceus, yes, I want her to be healing the tank even when they're at full health as it allows me to heal them that much sooner after they take damage. If I waited for her to decide when to start healing, the tank is likely to suffer another hit before she's done, which is something you don't want when fighting a boss that's capable of dealing 50-70% of the tank's health in damage in less than a second.

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Originally Posted by Garnatian

This is what we call laziness.

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Manual control was nowhere near the same efficiency as AI control. u should noticed the tiny delay before the skill button can respond to ur press after recast. Hence ur manual embrace actually has a recast for about 3.5-4sec, not 3. AI control has no such issue at all, it doesnt even need to wait for the button light up. But usually u dont need to worry about this except some extreme cases. So do what ever u like. But this has nothing to do with placing ur pet or not as u can still manual control after placed it if it try to be lazy.

For what I mean efficiency, I wast talking about the control efficiency only. As I mentioned above, there's 2 fight u should place ur pet(or I will prefer a must). At demon wall, if u have noticed, the middle AOE gives heavy but the side AOE gives slow. And slow increased cast and recast time significantly. u should always place ur pet in the middle to avoid getting slow or u just asking trouble for like wasting ur time and MP to patch up the healing lost instead of help DPS it down. In the BC fight, u should place ur pet to let the AI auto respond area cover most of the activity area. Unless u have an decent group which can kick its ass like cakewalk, ur not so freely to turn ur attention to heal other ppl and need to relay on AI healing. Beside that, place it in the middle of the zone to guarantee as much of ppl get its buff as u can.

Its optional to place ur pet in usual, but saying it's 24/7 is exaggerating.

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Originally Posted by Espon

I cannot imagine being even a remotely good healer by leaving my fairy to auto-heal whoever she pleases, her AI simply isn't that good.

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I did actually tested it in AK. I watched it and myself never cast a single healing on tank except BOSS fight. Tank HP never dropped below 70% mostly. In some cases tank did get to low HP(less than 1/3), but it healed up eventually and never let tank die.

Proven that by placing it, AI does become more reliable.

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Originally Posted by Krisstina

Manual control was nowhere near the same efficiency as AI control. u should noticed the tiny delay before the skill button can respond to ur press after recast. Hence ur manual embrace actually has a recast for about 3.5-4sec, not 3. AI control has no such issue at all, it doesnt even need to wait for the button light up. But usually u dont need to worry about this except some extreme cases. So do what ever u like. But this has nothing to do with placing ur pet or not as u can still manual control after placed it if it try to be lazy.

For what I mean efficiency, I wast talking about the control efficiency only. As I mentioned above, there's 2 fight u should place ur pet(or I will prefer a must). At demon wall, if u have noticed, the middle AOE gives heavy but the side AOE gives slow. And slow increased cast and recast time significantly. u should always place ur pet in the middle to avoid getting slow or u just asking trouble for like wasting ur time and MP to patch up the healing lost instead of help DPS it down. In the BC fight, u should place ur pet to let the AI auto respond area cover most of the activity area. Unless u have an decent group which can kick its ass like cakewalk, ur not so freely to turn ur attention to heal other ppl and need to relay on AI healing. Beside that, place it in the middle of the zone to guarantee as much of ppl get its buff as u can.

Its optional to place ur pet in usual, but saying it's 24/7 is exaggerating.

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Pointless post as that talk of "delay" is complete rubbish.

Only fights you should be placing your Fairy are fights where there is an extreme amount of movement, otherwise you'll see no appreciable difference.

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Originally Posted by Garnatian

Pointless post as that talk of "delay" is complete rubbish.

Only fights you should be placing your Fairy are fights where there is an extreme amount of movement, otherwise you'll see no appreciable difference.

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When continuously healing is needed, this so called rubbish talk delay gonna lower ur pets healing ability by about 15%.

Put the fairy somewhere not too close to tank, but still can take buffs from fairy. Also, the main reason to Place your fairy is because if you move even a bit, the fairy will follow you and that means losing some milliseconds or even a second of healing. I place my fairy every fight, so I can be flexible to move everywhere I want while fairy still keeps healing ppl.

And yes, cast embrace manually, even when your tank's HP is full, in caduceus fight (and some boss fight), pre-casting healing means you can heal your tank's HP as soon as they HP is reduced, just careful not to overheal.

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Originally Posted by Krisstina

I did actually tested it in AK. I watched it and myself never cast a single healing on tank except BOSS fight. Tank HP never dropped below 70% mostly. In some cases tank did get to low HP(less than 1/3), but it healed up eventually and never let tank die.

Proven that by placing it, AI does become more reliable.

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We're not talking about AK, the OP is asking about Caduceus. I don't want my fairy to start casting at later against a boss that can melee + hood swing combo for an insane amount of damage with a few stacks.

And I never said anything about not placing the fairy.