For the people that want a challenge ( I believe you'll get it soon enough)

I have been reading on and off on how some people want a challenge in this game, and I can totally relate to how you feel. Yoshi-P has told us that Levels 1-50 is meant to be this huge tutorial, and the 50 is when you actually start getting some challenge in.

The 1-50 Tutorial is mainly for the casuals so they can ween themselves into this game without feeling the need of stress and can complete the storyline without having to do 3 years of CoP like in FFXI to complete it ( can totally understand that -.-).

It seems like from what I have seen the patches are very challenged based for example:

2.1 has:

1) Crystal Tower ( easier than coil, but probably not as easy as you may think :P)
2) Extreme Primal modes (obviously harder than HM and it maybe CT equal or a tad higher for all we know)
3) 2 Hard Mode Dungeons ( who knows what will be in there!)
4) Pharos Sirius ( Another Level 50 Dungeon)
5) PvP ( It can be challenging depending on the match)
6) Hard Mode of some Memorable Foe.

2.2 has (as far as we know):

1) Turn 6+ Coil of (The hardest content you can do in the game currently)
( and I am sure more is to follow)

2.3 has:

1) Crystal Tower (Floors higher than 2.1),<---- probably just as hard as Coil turns 1/2/4/5

My point here is that the 1-50 game is made for casuals no denying that, but is endgame really casual friendly? When I look at what we have and 2.1 it doesn't seem likely. Also, the point that FFXIV ARR Each patch seems to come with what seems to be Hardcore content, I see that in the future patches, that you will see more semi-hardcore-hardcore content as well.

Expansion is coming in a year (hopefully if all goes well), and that expansion will be for the 50+ players ( in which the tutorial is 1-50 so you don't have to worry so much about being dragged down by that) in which you will even probably encounter harder trash mobs as well as well harder content. Obviously what I said isn't set in stone, I am just thinking ahead and with all the content in the patches we know about, it just "Seems" like we will get harder content in the future.

http://i.imgur.com/9iBRvnl.jpg

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Originally Posted by KingZeus

http://i.imgur.com/9iBRvnl.jpg

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I congradulate you! I couldn't do something like this, Fishing personally makes me wanna sleep ( but I want that Tortoise!)

I don't mind challenging content at end-game, but I sure do miss the element of journey/adventure that the Final Fantasy series is so well known for.

Personally, I don't complain about a lack of challenging content because I know the main focus will be end-game moving forward.
Just once in a while though, I'd like to see/do something that gives me a thrill simply by "doing" it, not because I reached "the end."

To try to give an idea of feeling I'm looking for in content: It's that feeling you'd get on Christmas morning as a kid just before you even see any presents under the tree.

I hadn't had that feeling since I started playing FFXI for the first time, and the last time I felt it was Open Beta for FFXIV 1.0.
I "was" expecting to feel it again when ARR rolled around but... something is missing.

It's not challenge I really care about. It's fun grinds that will last awhile.

Extreme primals - Are they going to make doing them over and over again worthwhile or just one and done?
Crystal tower - Will it end up like Castrum?
Dungeons - WP speed runs?
Fates - More laggy zergfests?

you forgot pvp

for some of pvper its a content that we are waiting for

for the other? they choose to grind like hell and in the end that gear is just for fashion show

I honestly hope that EM Primals are all harder than Twintania just to shut up the people who rushed end game and then complained about no challenge. The hardest of the three should be statistically impossible with full ilvl90 gear.

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Originally Posted by DeeJayImut

you forgot pvp

for some of pvper its a content that we are waiting for

for the other? they choose to grind like hell and in the end that gear is just for fashion show

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PVP is going to be filled with bots that you can't see, therefore can't report.
And if they hit you once, they will deal 999,999 damage.

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Originally Posted by Melithea

I honestly hope that EM Primals are all harder than Twintania just to shut up the people who rushed end game and then complained about no challenge. The hardest of the three should be statistically impossible with full ilvl90 gear.

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Yeah, that's a good idea. They've made "impossible" bosses before like AV and Pandamonium Warden. The community really loves it. Also, the press liked it when people fought a boss for 18 hours straight and were forced to quit because members of the raid were becoming physically ill. Great game design there.

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Originally Posted by DivineAyumi

PVP is going to be filled with bots that you can't see, therefore can't report.
And if they hit you once, they will deal 999,999 damage.

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http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/1271/ll23.jpg

proof?

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Originally Posted by Blarp

Snarky sarcastic things.

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I'm obviously being a little tongue-in-cheek, but really if that's what it takes to shut up the super hardcore elitists who take themselves way too seriously, give them a real wall to beat their heads against until the next patch.

Honestly I'd rather hear people complaining about this than a bunch of "WORLD FIRST WORSHIP ME CASUAL PEASANTS!" followed by a litany of "Wahhhhh I'm bored T_T"

If the end game caters only to elitist raiders, I'll quit this game though I love it. And probably will quit gaming for good this time. I am only a normal human being, haven't got lighting reflexes nor a particularly fast PC/connection and am no more a teen either. I also can play only in the weekends, and not always. So, I am starting to think that modern gaming is not for me. What after Extreme Mode? Ultra Extreme Mode? Super Ultra Extreme Mode?

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Originally Posted by Goodberry

So, I am starting to think that modern gaming is not for me. What after Extreme Mode? Ultra Extreme Mode? Super Ultra Extreme Mode?

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Wait till content gets old and nerfed, till then plenty of stuff for you to do still. ITS THE CIRCLEEEE OF LIFEEEE!!

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Originally Posted by Starlord

I have been reading on and off on how some people want a challenge in this game, and I can totally relate to how you feel. Yoshi-P has told us that Levels 1-50 is meant to be this huge tutorial, and the 50 is when you actually start getting some challenge in.

The 1-50 Tutorial is mainly for the casuals so they can ween themselves into this game without feeling the need of stress and can complete the storyline without having to do 3 years of CoP like in FFXI to complete it ( can totally understand that -.-).

It seems like from what I have seen the patches will be very challenged based for example:

2.1 Should have:

1) Crystal Tower ( easier than coil, but probably not as easy as you may think :P)
2) Extreme Primal modes (obviously harder than HM and it maybe CT equal or a tad higher for all we know)
3) 2 Hard Mode Dungeons ( who knows what will be in there!)
4) Pharos Sirius ( Another Level 50 Dungeon)
5) PvP ( It can be challenging depending on the match)
6) Hard Mode of some Memorable Foe.

2.2 should have (as far as we know):

1) Turn 6+ Coil of (The hardest content you can do in the game currently)
( and I am sure more is to follow)

2.3 should have:

1) Crystal Tower (Floors higher than 2.1),<---- probably just as hard as Coil turns 1/2/4/5

My point here is that the 1-50 game is made for casuals no denying that, but is endgame really casual friendly? When I look at what we have and 2.1 it doesn't seem likely. Also, the point that FFXIV ARR Each patch seems to come with what seems to be Hardcore content, I see that in the future patches, that you will hopefully see more semi-hardcore-hardcore content as well.

Expansion is coming in a year (hopefully if all goes well), and that expansion will be for the 50+ players ( in which the tutorial is 1-50 so you don't have to worry so much about being dragged down by that) in which you will even probably encounter harder trash mobs as well as well harder content. Obviously what I said isn't set in stone, I am just thinking ahead and with all the content in the patches we know about, it just "Seems" like we will get harder content in the future.

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Corrected.


Also, I love the idea that they launched their game with only a tutorial. It used to be that tutorials were demo versions, not paying content, but I guess that's old school thinking.

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Originally Posted by Goodberry

If the end game caters only to elitist raiders, I'll quit this game though I love it. And probably will quit gaming for good this time. I am only a normal human being, haven't got lighting reflexes nor a particularly fast PC/connection and am no more a teen either. I also can play only in the weekends, and not always. So, I am starting to think that modern gaming is not for me. What after Extreme Mode? Ultra Extreme Mode? Super Ultra Extreme Mode?

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Then mario and pokemon must be full of elitist since they are extremely grindy and require lighting reflexes.

Why did you quote my message? What you said has no relevance to what I said.

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Originally Posted by Goodberry

If the end game caters only to elitist raiders, I'll quit this game though I love it. And probably will quit gaming for good this time. I am only a normal human being, haven't got lighting reflexes nor a particularly fast PC/connection and am no more a teen either. I also can play only in the weekends, and not always. So, I am starting to think that modern gaming is not for me. What after Extreme Mode? Ultra Extreme Mode? Super Ultra Extreme Mode?

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xxxtreme mode!

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Originally Posted by Starlord

...
but is endgame really casual friendly? When I look at what we have and 2.1 it doesn't seem likely. Also, the point that FFXIV ARR Each patch seems to come with what seems to be Hardcore content, I see that in the future patches, that you will see more semi-hardcore-hardcore content as well.
...
Obviously what I said isn't set in stone ... it just "Seems" like we will get harder content in the future.

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Remember, Yoshi-P has said it over and over again that while endgame will be hard and challenging when introduced, they will be nerf'ed and made easier for non-hardcore players after a few months.

So are casuals screwed once they reach max on all of their 50s? Not likely.

jc

End game is all good but where's the stuff in the middle?

Seriously? Yoshi-P saw 1-49 a TUTORIAL? WTF .... someone needs some training in making MMOs if the journey isn't important.

Meh.

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Originally Posted by Bloodwillow

End game is all good but where's the stuff in the middle?

Seriously? Yoshi-P saw 1-49 a TUTORIAL? WTF .... someone needs some training in making MMOs if the journey isn't important.

Meh.

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Well in a manner of perspective, 1-49 is a "training period" in any MMO, because once you hit 50 ( or max level) You are kinda expected to know what you are doing by then. ( or else some people will be on your case about your role, you should have learned when you were leveling up).

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Originally Posted by Billie21

Corrected.


Also, I love the idea that they launched their game with only a tutorial. It used to be that tutorials were demo versions, not paying content, but I guess that's old school thinking.

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By "Tutorial" you mean more content than any mmo's release since 2004?

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Originally Posted by Sterob

Then mario and pokemon must be full of elitist since they are extremely grindy and require lighting reflexes.

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Not sure about mario but pokemon does have some very elitist players. In fact to be competitive you need to divulge thousands of hours into the game to raise perfect pokemon. Who have the right nature, perfect IV, and have been trained to have the right EV's. There's even quite a few rules you need to follow.

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Originally Posted by Sterob

Then mario and pokemon must be full of elitist since they are extremely grindy and require lighting reflexes.

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But you don't have to be good to see Mario save the princess or your trainer becoming the champion of the Pokemon league. New Marios aren't nearly as hard to see the end as the old 2D ones.

Yet you have to be a hardcore raider to know what the hell is going on in that place with Bahamut's name, because of all the lockouts, no duty finder, ~*mechanics*~, etc. Then people say this game is casual... yeah, right. Everyone playing it for the story is completely screwed.

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Originally Posted by Reslin

By "Tutorial" you mean more content than any mmo's release since 2004?

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No, by "tutorial" I mean the words used by Yoshi P. I just found it funny.

This week has become the first week since Beta that I really just have run out of things I am interested to do. Not too bad considering the amount of time the content has lasted me.

The problem I have run into is the only content that pushes me to play well has a lock out on it and I can't help others in it. This week was the second time I beat Twintania and after she was downed I was left asking myself what to do in game now?

I enjoy leveling battle classes and so I have already leveled them all. I hate crafting and so I could force myself to do it but why would I do that if I do not like it. I leveled Miner but I found myself falling asleep over and over leaving me to believe gathering just isn't my thing in this game.

I often ask my FC if they need help with anything and volunteer for that but find I am not needed much of the time. I wish I could help people in need of a coil group because it would be fun and truly helpful, but I can't even enter the area.

The things I can do or help with are no longer a challenge. There is nothing in the open world to make me feel a sense of danger or adventure, leaving me parked at a crystal semi AFK until I see somebody asking for help. There are no instances left that make me try outside of coil. My main and secondary job out gear the things with no lock out to the point I can do dumb stuff that I shouldn't be able to but it does not matter because my gear makes it ok. Joining shouts to help people with relics or dungeons is just repetitive but I still do it to do something, anything. Even if they have no clue what is going on, it doesn’t make the content hard it is just makes it slower. Because I can’t help on harder content that I would really make a difference in for people I don’t get that warm feeling of I am glad I helped. I can carry groups in most non-lock out content enough to trivializing the content for them which makes it feel empty. I am not saying this to brag or complain. I am saying this because while I am not the kind of person to say there is nothing to do. The place I would really be helpful I cannot help and the rest of the game is just silly easy to the point I don’t have to think. Thinking being what makes things fun for me.

I Hope in patches to come we will start seeing content where helping people actually means something other than you just filled a slot so they could do a run. I want to be able to help people who actually need help to get through the content like coil.
I hope we are past the tutorial phase of the game and now challenge and danger are the new goal. I enjoy the game and the people I meet but at the moment everything is just too temporary for the speed I am seeing content being added and I cant help were help is actually needed.

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Originally Posted by Ri_ri

Then people say this game is casual... yeah, right. Everyone playing it for the story is completely screwed.

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This game is super casual. Fast leveling/crafting, fairly easy to make money, and run easy raids to get the best gear with weekly lockouts so no hardcore players can get that far ahead. End game like Bahamuts coil will continue to get nerf so when the casuals get to it, they can probably duo it. It's not Hello Kitty World in terms of casual for sure though if that's what you casuals are expecting. Casuals are still not satisfied till this game becomes like a cell phone game in terms of casualness.

http://0-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/b...7920046165.png

Wait until this guy shows up.

THE LEGEND NEVER DIES

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Originally Posted by Osias_Qol

This week has become the first week since Beta that I really just have run out of things I am interested to do. Not too bad considering the amount of time the content has lasted me.

The problem I have run into is the only content that pushes me to play well has a lock out on it and I can't help others in it. This week was the second time I beat Twintania and after she was downed I was left asking myself what to do in game now?

I enjoy leveling battle classes and so I have already leveled them all. I hate crafting and so I could force myself to do it but why would I do that if I do not like it. I leveled Miner but I found myself falling asleep over and over leaving me to believe gathering just isn't my thing in this game.

I often ask my FC if they need help with anything and volunteer for that but find I am not needed much of the time. I wish I could help people in need of a coil group because it would be fun and truly helpful, but I can't even enter the area.

The things I can do or help with are no longer a challenge. There is nothing in the open world to make me feel a sense of danger or adventure, leaving me parked at a crystal semi AFK until I see somebody asking for help. There are no instances left that make me try outside of coil. My main and secondary job out gear the things with no lock out to the point I can do dumb stuff that I shouldn't be able to but it does not matter because my gear makes it ok. Joining shouts to help people with relics or dungeons is just repetitive but I still do it to do something, anything. Even if they have no clue what is going on, it doesn’t make the content hard it is just makes it slower. Because I can’t help on harder content that I would really make a difference in for people I don’t get that warm feeling of I am glad I helped. I can carry groups in most non-lock out content enough to trivializing the content for them which makes it feel empty. I am not saying this to brag or complain. I am saying this because while I am not the kind of person to say there is nothing to do. The place I would really be helpful I cannot help and the rest of the game is just silly easy to the point I don’t have to think. Thinking being what makes things fun for me.

I Hope in patches to come we will start seeing content where helping people actually means something other than you just filled a slot so they could do a run. I want to be able to help people who actually need help to get through the content like coil.
I hope we are past the tutorial phase of the game and now challenge and danger are the new goal. I enjoy the game and the people I meet but at the moment everything is just too temporary for the speed I am seeing content being added and I cant help were help is actually needed.

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Best post in the thread so far. I feel similarly.

I haven't beaten coil yet, because I haven't reached a gear threshold high enough to challenge T4, but I can't solve that issue because I'm locked to 300 ToM a week, and I'm locked out of the turns that I can do reliably.

I can really feel the gaping hole that CT is leaving.

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Originally Posted by Doo

This game is super casual. Fast leveling/crafting, fairly easy to make money, and run easy raids to get the best gear with weekly lockouts so no hardcore players can get that far ahead. End game like Bahamuts coil will continue to get nerf so when the casuals get to it, they can probably duo it. It's not Hello Kitty World in terms of casual for sure though if that's what you casuals are expecting. Casuals are still not satisfied till this game becomes like a cell phone game in terms of casualness.

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Sorry, I don't buy into the idea that having enough time to play, a flexible schedule and a static group is good, skilled and hardcore.
Exclusive content never made a game good and certainly won't this either.