Whm buff please!

Hello. So I got into a convo with a friend who like myself has whm and sch lvled, and we both came to the conclusion that Sch has quite a bit more than whm.

Outside of 1 HoT spell, whm seems to get outclassed by Sch at nearly every turn. While whm can cure for more than a sch of equal gear, it's not by a large margin at all, and this isnt even including Eos aswell, which if you factor in, ends up out curing whm O.o .

We then moved on to MP management, which of course sch beats whm yet again. For my whm, I get about 1.2k MP back every 2 mins from shroud, and that MP is also given back over time, where as my sch gets about 850 back from flow, instantly, with 3 stacks of drain for about 250 a pop, if you chose to use it for MP, and flow is every 60 sec aswell.

On to damage reduction, which was a no brainer, sch wins yet again, with soil , adl.. however it's spelled ( the 1 that gives the stoneskin equal/double of what it heals ), eye for an eye and virus which are shared between the 2, but are more effective on sch. But all whm has is stoneskin, which is pretty much never casted mid fight due to MP cost/cast time.

I'm not trying to call for a nerf or anything, as I said I've got both lvled and enjoy both, I'm just askin for a bit more balance between the 2. Perhaps increase whm MP pool by 25%, or increase the MP shroud gives back, double it ?, increase the % at which we get freecure?

Well, what do you guys think?

Medica 2 and regen.

As someone with both WHM and SCH leveled, I honestly find myself on WHM more often. Regen is nice and Holy rocks in WP.

You're only focusing on Scholar's strengths; high mana regen, fairies, and damage prevention is just kind of their thing. White Mages have plenty of advantages over Scholars, which evens it out. I would love to have things like Medica 2, Regen, and Holy.

Well, I'm talking about Whm playing the role it's suppose to, healing, so Holy and other offensive magics dont really factor in. Schs get Succor, while it doesn't heal as much as med1, you do get that barrier effect, which certainly puts it on par. As for Med2, Sch gets an AoE regen threw Eos, while it might not heal for as much, they arnt far behind.


It's still very unbalanced atm.

Bards do need some buffs too. They got no DD Limit break.

I would take a WHM over a 2nd SCH any day....they are fine. Each has their own strengths and weaknesses, if both classes learn to utilize their own potential then it makes it so much easier for the other healer.

nope i think.... >.<
more buff on WHM means we're going to steal agro more from tank
enough with regen + medica II... already produce a lot of agro.. was reminded about it >.<
different job have its own advantage
i do find it easier to heal as SCH in dungeon... but i find it easier to heal as WHM in primal

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Originally Posted by Incatasi

Well, I'm talking about Whm playing the role it's suppose to, healing, so Holy and other offensive magics dont really factor in. Schs get Succor, while it doesn't heal as much as med1, you do get that barrier effect, which certainly puts it on par. As for Med2, Sch gets an AoE regen threw Eos, while it might not heal for as much, they arnt far behind.


It's still very unbalanced atm.

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Medicara is leaps and bounds better than Succor. If it was on par, why not just bring 2 SCH to raid?

You can only compare Medicara to Succor + Whispering Dawn and you can't spam Whispering Dawn and Succor chews through mana like nothing else.

Someone did the math on Reddit and it turned out a WHM heals 650 Potency every GCD, but a SCH would heal 850 with Fairy.

They may get a fairy but you said it yourself, "outside of that one HoT" - Why are you NOT including this? I see this everytime! People compare WHM and SCH, say SCH is superior in every way and then fail to acknowledge Regen is an existing ability (which FYI heals about 500 HP a tick for me. That's quite a bit!)

WHM has two regen abilities, single target and AoE which also stack with another WHM btw. Stoneskin to mitigate damage, Another AoE heal, Cure and Cure II which is a heavy duty heal plus they have benediction as an emergency heal all on a target. If something bad happens a WHM is just better placed to fix everything. Base AoE heals might come close but if a WHM uses Divine Seal and Medica II the SCH can't even approach that level of regen on the whole party.

SCH has the advantage of making it easier to keep up mana but a good healer won't run out of mana easily anyway. They have better damage mitigation skills but their healing ability doesn't touch WHM. The Fairy is all fine and good unless you consider the fact that it's not very reliable. The Fairy effectiveness depends on it being in a fight where it won't get hit by everything and get stacked with debuffs all the time.

I generally consider a WHM more effective at area healing, and SCH more effective at single target heals. Ideally in a full party, I prefer to have one of each. In a 4-man party, it's usually on dungeons where holy rocks. Yeah, I know WHM is a healer, but helping make stuff die faster means it's spending less time hitting the tank... especially when you factor in Holy's stun.

WHM has higher Single Target Healing and better AoE Healing.

There's no need, really. Everyone accepts that WHM+SCH is the best combination of healers you can have, any adjustments might throw that out of balance and leave parties favouring one or the other x2.

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WHM has higher Single Target Healing

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So a white mage can mono heal for 2k+ on a regular basis without usin any heal buff ? good to know, never saw that

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Originally Posted by Garnatian

WHM has higher Single Target Healing and better AoE Healing.

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You may want to educate yourself,

WHM doesn't need a buff in terms of abilities but it could use some help in terms of ENM generation.

You'll find the best results in larger group play with a mix of both white mages and scholars, though two of one and none of the other will never make or break a group. Each has some areas in which it excels. When you have one of each those strong points are made stronger while those weak points are largely erased.

I bounce between the two depending on how motivated I feel on a given day. When I want to be really engaged and active I'll log onto a Scholar and micromanage my fairy while stance dancing to add supporting DPS. If it's been a long day and I don't want to have to "work" at it, then I'll flip to white mage & enjoy a more streamlined play style.

They both accomplish the same things -- they simply do it in very different ways.

Why are we talking about this?

Wasn't it established by like week 1 that SCH's were superior at single target heals and WHM's were superior at raid heals? There's a reason why the two synergize so well together....

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Originally Posted by CalvatE

You may want to educate yourself,

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Unfortunately Adloquium has a tenancy of wasting Shield if spammed. So in no way is it a flat 600 Potency. It will fluctuate between 300 and 600, meaning a SCHs single target will sway between 550 and 850, while Cure II + Regen Ticks will heal for a guaranteed 775. I won't include Lustrate as Divine Seal has the potential to out-heal it.

So yeah, SCHs have the potential to out single-target a WHM if they don't clip the shield.

What? No. WHM doesn't need a buff. What is this...I don't even...

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Originally Posted by Garnatian

Unfortunately Adloquium has a tenancy of wasting Shield if spammed. So in no way is it a flat 600 Potency. It will fluctuate between 300 and 600, meaning a SCHs single target will sway between 550 and 850, while Cure II + Regen Ticks will heal for a guaranteed 775. I won't include Lustrate as Divine Seal has the potential to out-heal it.

So yeah, SCHs have the potential to out single-target a WHM if they don't clip the shield.

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Guaranteed? Remember Overhealing is pretty much the same thing as "Clipping the shield". But anyway, I think both classes are balanced for different things I'd hate to see them balance them to be exactly the same in both areas of single target and raid healing.

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Originally Posted by LiadansWhisper

What? No. WHM doesn't need a buff. What is this...I don't even...

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LOL. I said the same thing. And.....close. xD

White Mage doesn't need a buff! O.O If we were buffed, tanks would NEVER hold hate! :D D:

The only thing that WHM needs is for Sacred Shroud to scale based off Piety. And for Cure 3 to be tweaked.

Otherwise, I would say it's perfect as-is.

You need to not think in terms of competition, one being better than the other. We don't have a WAR/PLD situation where the general populous are requesting WHMonry or SCHonry. The two are very balanced and very equal. Just have two very distinct play styles. When playing in concert with eachother, it is amazing.

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Originally Posted by CalvatE

You may want to educate yourself,

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Adloquium Mana Cost - 299
Cure 2 Mana Cost - 266

You'd have to compare the differences in Piety, as well as Aetherflow vs Shroud for a proper mana assessment. All these amateur tier napkin math without an applicable scenario is laughable.

I play both dependent on the encounter/composition so it's much of a muchness for me. Each has their own benefits, but I wouldn't say that one is clearly better than the other 100% of the time.

I think whm and sch compliment each other rather well in full parties. They are not the same role and do not have the same abilities for that reason. They are not suppose to be equal.

WHM:
- hands down outclasses sch in area heals, by far
- more "oh crap" cds (benediction, shroud)
- they have freecure and stuff to help mitigate their mana issues
- higher piety
- best aoe dps in the game

As a sch, i would never go into a raid without a whm, the whm i team up with feels the same about sch. He's better at aoe healing and saving my screwups, i'm better at single target healing and letting my pet patch up straglers and helping reduce his work on aoes. Seems perfect to me?

I think the synergy between whm and sch is one thing se did amazingly well. I honestly can't find anything wrong with it.

If you are running OOM as a WHM, then you, someone you heal with, or players in your party are doing stuff wrong. Remember to use Shroud once you are 1k mana down, not the moment you need it. Our heals are pretty powerful. I am not sure we need a buff. If played correctly, we are pretty good at what we do.

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Originally Posted by Zaft

The only thing that WHM needs is for Sacred Shroud to scale based off Piety. And for Cure 3 to be tweaked.

Otherwise, I would say it's perfect as-is.

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I concur, regen being enmity-less would be a nice QoL change too, but honestly the classes are pretty balanced currently.

As Delvish said, the situation isn't comparable to WAR/PLD for sure. lol

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...olar_which_is/

Try to heal Coil with only 2 Scholars, you'll see just how much you want a WHM.

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Originally Posted by DSN

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...olar_which_is/

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Neither healer is best in all situations, and you'll likely want both for your high end raids. Stacking SCH is less viable than stacking WHMs. SCH is more mana efficient, does more damage, and smooths out incoming damage. WHMs have more raw power, recovery abilities, and tools.

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^ This.
WHM does not need a buff. I main WHM and there are plenty of content where I can easily outheal a SCH; as well as there are content where a SCH have an easier time than me.

I believe both are perfectly balanced and does not need a nerf/buff of any kind.
If you think a SCH is way better than a WHM then you are just playing your job wrong, very wrong.