PLD tips

Hi all, relatively new to 50 (primarily just helping others in my FC out with lower lvl dungeons and stuff atm, and I'm at, story-wise, the Plan Archon (the assault on the base)), and I heard, from higher lvl ppl in my FC, that the way I've been tanking in the lower lvl dungeons (using the rage of halone combo on a single target, while flashing intermittently, to keep hate from the other targets) will "make" them rage-quit on me during the run. Have I been doing it wrong this whole time, or are they just being a bit of an elitist?
If I have been doing it wrong, I can easily change, but if they're being more elitist/speedrunner-style, then I can know I'm not a newb when it comes to these things...

EDIT: whoops... found out it was Operation Archon, not Plan Archon...my mistake

FC will rage-quit on you if you doing bad?

What kind of FC is that lol, you need to quit them and find new one, a nicer one

And your description still not give me a picture what you did wrong, try to be more details

if your fc is rage quitting on you....time to find a new fc.

they should be helping you improve your tanking skills, not yelling at you for being a bad tank.

Wow, I am very sorry to hear you have a FC like that. I'm with everybody else here... If you're honestly trying, and having trouble, you should receive some aid/tips. My FC helped me initially when I was having trouble. Here's what I learned/was taught:
Usually when I am tanking, I begin with a Rampart/Fight or Flight > Shield Lob > Flash > Flash > Halone Combo > Flash with a Spirits Within inserted whenever off CD. From there, I Halone combo, while tossing out an occasional Flash and cycling targets to verify enmity build-up and not lose it. 90% of the time this has worked for me (after I was taught), and I've never had anybody call me a bad tank or anything of the sort.

I hope this helped. And best of luck to ya out there. =)

There's really not that much more to paladin tanking than doing what you said - Halone Combo on the primary targets, Flash for the secondaries. As you get more experienced, you start spreading your halones out amongst multiple targets when you know how much threat you have (eg, tanking 2 targets you might throw the Fast Blade and the rage of halone on the primary target, but tab to the second mid-combo to hit it with the Savage blade). It's all about monitoring your threat and knowing which targets need more.

AOE tanking is a lot like "spinning plates". You have multiple threat bars to monitor and you have to ensure you're at the top of each mob's bar set. What rotation you do to keep threat varies hugely depending on the party. Sometimes you get a party with super geared single-target dps who go nuts on a main target, and you barely have time for more than one flash before you're forced to spam pure halone combos on the main enemy or risk losing threat. Sometimes you get into AOE happy parties and you need to throw in four times as many Flashes as normal and all your Halone/Savages get spread evenly across an entire pack. It's not that hard to learn, it's just something that varies.

End of the day, if every mob is aggroed on you and you're not completely dying, you're doing fine. Every tank loses the occasional mob's threat (that's why we have provoke).

I wonder if your FC is not talking about your skill use, but your -pacing-. The tank is responsible for the speed and smoothness of the run. I 100% agree with everyone above that any FC that says they'll ragequit on you isnt worth staying in, but maybe they mean the pace of your tanking. A lot of players get very itchy and impatient if a tank stands there for a few seconds each pull, marks everything, checks people are ready, then stops between packs and such. Sure, it's safe, but there's a middle ground to be had where ideally you should be running every single dungeon at the maximum acceptable pace for the capabilities of the group.

It doesnt mean you need to speed run every instance and aoe 5 packs at a time each instance. It just means you should be running to pull the next pack when the final mob in your current pack still has a few hp left. You should be marking targets as your Shield lobs fly out rather than pausing to mark them first. You should be going as fast as possible if the group allows it and it's safe to. Obviously on new instances where you're learning pulls then take your time, but once a dungeon is "learned" then people expect a certain pace and fluidity to the run, especially people who arent exactly close friends and understanding.

It may be that your pace is fine, but I find the most common complaint about tanks (outside of bad tanks who literally can't hold more than one mob on them at once) is that they go too slowly. It doesnt mean speed run everything, it just means keep a good pace and try not to be the one that's holding up people. And that comes with confidance and experience.

They are probably referring to the fact that you are not cycling through your targets and using different sections of your RoH combo to maintain enmity instead of using Flash for your ancillary targets.

Using Flash for the 2/3/4 targets is fine, but it also means that you do not have your pulse on the battle, meaning you are not able to keep a keen eye on each other target - maybe the archer hit a target with a DoT when you weren't expecting it, or the WHM had an extra big crit heal and you are about to lose aggro on the 2 other targets. Basically, if comes to down efficiency and providing a good cushion on each of your targets, not just a huge cushion on one.

But if you aren't losing enmity, you're fine : D

A good read!

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Compendium-2.0

Thank you all for the advice. /bow

I apologize, I didn't make it totally clear from square one... it was all FC chatter, so it's not like we did this during a run or anything, and it was only 1 person who said this, not my entire FC. After reading this, I do believe they were talking about pacing, like some ppl said, and even though I've tanked every mission until now, I'm still not 100% on being "must speed-run everything", and knowing every trick we should be doing. At least now I know where I can improve and get faster in my runs.

EDIT: I should also mention that the only person who has complained about my tanking job thus far was one guy, who came off as a really big douche, when I did my first ever run in the Sunken Temple of Qarn, when we fought against the Stegotaur, and no one explained it to me, even though I was helping some ppl in my FC.

It's hard to say anything about this without actually seeing how you tank. That's the hard part about discussing tanking. Rotations and skill usage is just the very basics of tanking. Positioning, pacing, pulling method, marking, etc., all plays a part in how you ultimately present yourself as a tank.

One thing is certain, though. He's not being elitist, he's being a jerk. Elitist is giving you suggestions that you may think is impossible but which he can achieve himself; being a jerk is bashing you on your play without offering any constructive criticism.

It's not really about speed running.
It's more along the lines of how you use your combo. Let me give some "basic"
Pointers that I have picked up along the way. Maybe you can adapt this into your play style.

(After pulling, ie, shield lob, into flash)

1st off, I made macros that can mark targets as 1 2 and 3. (These are 3 different macros)
2nd off, I mark target 1, then I do fast blade -> into savage blade
3rd, I target a different mob (either by tabbing, or manually clicking the monster list), mark it as 2, then I spirits within.
4th, I target a different mob again, and mark that as 3 and rage of halone that mob.

What these steps are for, is to set the pace of the fight, for my dps to understand my fight intent, as well as put agro on everything so the healers can heal me through-out the fight.
After this rotation, I flash, and continue he steps without marking.

Honestly as a tank people are pretty critical of your performance so I've found 2 effective ways to tank as pld 1st is stress free an you won't think this works but man it does just FB > RB > Flash, if dps is really good then FB > Flash > RB > Flash. 2nd is attacking every target I'll use 1,2,3 for mobs. So I'll Flash > FB(1) > CoS > SB(1) > RoH(1) > Flash > FB(1) > SB(2) > RoH(3) > Flash > FB(3) > SB (1) > RoH (2). Basically here I try to keep the Strength down debuff up on all mobs as much as possible. hope this helps so people don't quit on you

The way I do it is a lot of tab targeting. Run in flash 1-2x, halone combo on main target and after that I will begin my combo again but use savage blade on the other mobs and halone the primary target, works much better then spamming flash between skills. The only think you have to get use to is tab targeting to check your enemity between the other mobs on you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Porie

I'm sexy

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I can see that Allagan armor collar sticking up... It WON'T drop for us. Color me jealous.

You don't have to stay on the primary target until it's dead, usually at half he you can start using your combo on the next targeted mob, get use to this method you'll never have aggro issues. I'm pretty awesome at tanking lol but would love to help many tanks especially when I want to speed run on my other classes other than tank :-D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Porie

You don't have to stay on the primary target until it's dead, usually at half he you can start using your combo on the next targeted mob, get use to this method you'll never have aggro issues. I'm pretty awesome at tanking lol but would love to help many tanks especially when I want to speed run on my other classes other than tank :-D

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One trick I sometimes employ is to gauge how much "buffer hate" you have vs the 2nd person on the hate list.
If the 2nd person is a dps, and their hate as a % of your hate is less than the remaining % hp on the mob... you pretty dont have to hit that mob anymore.

So with numbers... we're fighting a mob, it has 10k hp. Since damage threat is at a 1-1 ratio, the mob has the potential to gain about 10k total hate on the dps who are damaging it... minus your damage, which we say is negligible.
Now say you have 3 dps, but one is much better geared, so the dps distribution is 40%-30%-30%. The 40% guy is going to be in the #2 spot.
The mob is now at half health, so the dps now have a total of 5k hate on the mob. The 40% guy has 2k hate on the mob. Assuming the overall dps rate is constant, the 40% guy can gain another 2k hate before the mob dies.
Now... at 50%, look at the hate bars. The 40% dps has 2k hate. He will double his hate by the time the mob dies.
If at 50%, YOU have more than twice his hate, meaning you have say 4.2k hate, and there is no DRASTIC change in his overall dps output... he will not pull off you...
You have 4.2k, he has 2k, he can get up to 4k by the time the mob dies... his 4k is less than your 4.2k... you dont have to touch that mob anymore.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zoomie

I can see that Allagan armor collar sticking up... It WON'T drop for us. Color me jealous.

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Haha I just noticed.... I was like what the hell I never wrote that. Ya our group got lucky and got it for both tanks first 2 weeks of coil together, it does look sexy :-P