Class system Discussion

-EDIT- My clarified point: Should Classes be re-worked, or Revamped to have use, or just be removed all together for the sake of better long term development. -Edit-

Am I the only one who feels that the classes are holding the game back a little?

Marauder, Gladiator, Conjurer, Thaumaturge, Archer, Pugilist, Lancer, Arcanist.

I just feel like these were concepts that were clung onto by the development team, but not truly made useful anymore. I know in some narrow circumstances, they are usable in the late game, but I don't feel like it's adding anything to the overall experience.

I want a discussion about this. It's my opinion, and I am curious is any others out here share it.

My idea about what could be done to replace it, is to have the in game guilds basically become melded into the story as the GC's militia men. But as warriors of the Light, Perhaps we should have just been bound to the special arts of the jobs.

Again though, this discussion I want is more about the class system holding the design back, my idea is totally worthless, even in my eyes.

I'm not quite sure what you're suggesting...

Yes... what are you asking? You didn't really make a point that needs to be discussed.

SE won't replace the Armoury System - that question was asked of players on this very forum back when Yoshi-P first took over and players voted overwhelmingly to keep it (hence why Jobs simply upgrade from a class). Unfortunately players don't actually see exactly what classes truly are - they're not so much a DnD style class but more a set of abilities based around a specific weapon (hence why they're really called 'Disciplines'). All the Job is is just a specialization that builds on from that.

EDIT: and following on from that, ironically classes as originally designed in 1.0 were pretty much what you are advocating ZDamned - classes didn't level up with exp, they leveled up with 'skill points' - instead players had a basic 'physical level' that was raised with exp, and their class instead 'ranked up'. This system was never really popular and physical levels were scrapped when Jobs were implemented, with classes instead levelling up via exp, like what we have now.

We need Class-exclusive (AF) armor and weapons. The armor should crafted like DoH/DoL AF, and the weapons should be rewards for completing lvl 50 class quest like DoL/DoH (currently, class quests end at lvl 30).

Class AF should be more Conventional looking than Job AF. It should styled along the lines of:
http://www.finalfantasy-fxn.net/imag...r-Marauder.jpghttp://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/lds/b...20130621_6.jpghttp://24.media.tumblr.com/52447b820...vlj4o5_500.jpghttp://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/im...gilist_art.jpghttp://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/im...diator_art.jpg

**Fun fact: Those lvl 70 crafted weapons used to be Class Exclusive in 1.0**

Also, changing to a Job should fundamentally change certain skills in order to better focus the roles. (like SCH and SMN currently do with ACN)

Yeah, I'll Edit my post to clarity a little more, but what I am saying is that I feel the base Classes in the game are more of a hindrance on the design for new content. I don't see anybody running around as a Conjurer, or a Pugilist. Ever. So why keep the base classes around if they are basically only being used as a catalyst to equip job Crystals? Why not just allow the players to always be Onion Knights, or Free Lancers, and the Job Crystals give you access to anything specific.

In 1.x I knew of a few times (usually going THM instead of BLM) that you'd go with a class. When would that ever make sense in XIV ARR since you not only lose 5 skills, but huge chunks of HP / defense. I don't recall it being such a huge difference in 1.x playing as my class or job other than a lack of a few skills. I could just be getting old and forgetful though.

I felt that the Physical Level was a great idea, and concept, however your "rank" being tied to yoru weapons was holding that Physical level back from ever doing anything. En essence though, you are correct, that is almost what I am suggesting. I think weapon based classes are holding the game back, however, the Physical level before didn't actually accomplish anything due to the other flaws that were holding it back as well.

maybe the class systeme need to be reworked, but it's that simply possible? i means it will need a huge revamp of the game.

Its a huge revamp that's needed when 8 roles become worthless once you unlock the 9 jobs.

Classes need their own specific abilities from 30-50, but then we are just basically turning them into jobs aren't we?

The only reason you would see classes in version 1 is someone sitting afk looking pretty in their class specific gear, or archer burn parties camping out at King Mog fight

I think basically what you are trying to say "Why have classes if jobs are the only real efficient way to play the classes."

Short story: We are essentially stuck with it since that's all Yoshi had to work with. I would imagine it would have literally been a large under taking to remove/replace the current armory system to something more fitting ARR. I like the concept. The problem is that classes are almost useless once you unlock the job. By the time you get your job, the game becomes less solo oriented and more focused on party play which is where the job specializations are meant to be played. Even outside that, jobs are still better than playing a ass because if the job abilities.

Yeah. This is exactly what I'm saying! No one using a class anymore since there is little to no benefit from them. Then the Relic Weapons are JOB Specific, as are the AF2 armors. So most of the i90 gear in the game are also forcing the jobs over the classes.

As for re-tooling the game for this to be removed, or re-vamped, I think we would all benefit from it, but perhaps, Yoshi is more concerned with content for the instant future? (Not a bad thing BTW)

All I know is get an allagan axe and become a dps maurader, they can spike massive damage in 15 sec and same goes for thaumaturge, get that allagan staff use all of the damage boost skills since you can steal from all trees and hit way harder in terms of dps as compared to every other class. But really classes are meant for solo play where as jobs are for actual group efforts.