SMN: What is the proper rotation for Raging Strikes, Rouse, and Spur?

At the beginning of a fight, should i use all three (raging strikes, rouse, spur) and then when each one becomes available OR

should I use Raging strikes, wait for it to end, then use rouse, wait for it to end, and then spur?

Wondering what rotation is most effective.

thanks

Rouse and Spur can potentially be used multiple times per fight, so you should lead with them early.

You assume that you won't be able to use Raging Strikes more than once, so once it is up, you waste no time on anything except putting down DoTs and apply direct damage.

Some people try to weave Rouse and Spur into the GCD after Ruin 2 that you do after putting up all your DoTs and Fester during the Bio GCD. But, this IMO is a waste of mana.

Personally, I Rouse and Spur at the start of the fight, if I'm going to lead with Garuda on Obey and not need to put her on Steady for a precision Contagion. Then I go into Raging Strikes and lay down the DoTs, Fester during Bio GCD, Ruin 1 x 3, Ruin 2, Fester, etc. Basically try to keep max DPS going during RS.

But, Rouse/Spur during RS is a waste of damage. So do it before, or do it after, but not during.

Thanks for the response.

You made me remember a reason for my concern: whether adding rouse or spur would make me even more powerful, or was it cutting into my raging strikes time.

I hadn't thought to myself about it only being up once, but on a 3-minute CD, I can see it only being used once if the boss fight is short.

Most boss fights aren't longer than 5 minutes eh? :L

Rouse and Spur seem to stack multiplicatively so it's the best to use them together.

I would try to always time your Raging Strikes with a Contagion. I pop Raging Strikes, Bio II, Miasma, Thunder, Bio, run towards enemy while using Fester, Energy Drain, Miasma II, Swiftcast, Shadow Flare, Fester, Contagion. That all fits into a single Raging Strikes. I think for total DPS you can squeeze out of a Raging Strikes, that's up there plus a Ruin II or two. If anyone can improve that rotation, I'm always looking to increase DPS.

You can get more burst out of it by saving Aetherflow up to use six stacks of it within a Raging Strikes.

I try to use Spur and Rouse together with Enkindle. I also pop them any time I can when Enkindle is on CD. Every other time, you can pop them together.

thanks - didn't realize spur and rouse were best used together and outside of raging strikes - ok. So you wait for 30 seconds till both are available?

Headl3anger - that's some wicked DPS!!!! Thanks. Six stacks of aether to burst with ragining sounds awesome too.

My one question: why thunder prior to bio? Is it because you are hitting bio while running to the boss?

All casting is complete after Thunder. Everything after that is mobile insta-casting. If you have to move during those cast times, don't forget to throw some insta-casts until you can cast again.

I also tend to use Thunder before Bio in my normal start-up rotation because the durations are the same and it makes re-applying them a bit smoother. When Thunder is gonna run out, I can Thunder, Bio directly after it and it tops them both up at the same time. Cuts down on the multiple timers all ticking at different times.

EDIT: So.... I might be crazy. The internet says the duration of Thunder is 12 and Bio is 18? They always have the same duration when I cast Thunder, Bio. >.> Not in front of my game right now so can't check it out. xD

So energy drain is a fairly high dps loss even with RS up. Theres no point in doing that.

You can pretty easily fit in 2 Festers inside an RS if you use swiftcast or miasma II or ruin II's.

There is no reason to delay contagion, as soon as all 5 dots are up you should hit it.

After RS is over you are free to rouse > spur then enkindle.

Or you can be lazy like me and rouse spur before RS on the pull, then enkindle about 10 seconds later when you have a free oGCD.

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Originally Posted by pandabearcat

So energy drain is a fairly high dps loss even with RS up. Theres no point in doing that.

You can pretty easily fit in 2 Festers inside an RS if you use swiftcast or miasma II or ruin II's.

There is no reason to delay contagion, as soon as all 5 dots are up you should hit it.

After RS is over you are free to rouse > spur then enkindle.

Or you can be lazy like me and rouse spur before RS on the pull, then enkindle about 10 seconds later when you have a free oGCD.

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This seems to be directed towards what I said, so I'll reply.

Energy Drain is included to increase burst DPS while using Raging Strikes. It also has many useful applications to increase its merit such as MP maintainability in long fights.

There are two Festers in my rotation.

Contagion is delayed to the end because more DPS can be added before Raging Strikes expires. If you are out of things to cast before Raging Strikes is over, it is higher DPS to use a slightly boosted Ruin or Ruin II rather than wasting time to pop Contagion. The DoT timers will have enough time for Contagion after Raging Strikes.

Enkindle's DPS should be based on the pet's snapshot of your stats. If I recall from other threads, summoning a pet or using Spur will take a snapshot of our non-food-buffed stats and apply it to our pets. This means that the two seconds you are wasting on Enkindle inside of Raging Strikes is a waste of DPS when it can be done at any other time. Not sure how Raging Strikes + Spur would affect the pet's stats when using Enkindle, but it doesn't seem like it would be worth wasting the time in Raging Strikes.

What?

Contagion takes nothing from you and can be used while you're doing anything. The only reason I can think of to delay contagion is so that you get a tiny bit extra dps from your pet during Spur/Rouse so it doesn't have to do the contagion animation (which btw, I'm not sure if it even actually delays wind blade since that has a CD).

Using energy drain during RS is a dps loss any way you look at it, starting around 20 seconds after opener when you could've gotten a third Fester.

RS is nice but its not the greatest thing ever. Its not worth sacrificing anything to put more stuff into it.

How does delaying contagion allow you to get more DPS in during raging strikes? It's a pet skill that is completely independent of your own character's rotation...

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Originally Posted by Seobit

How does delaying contagion allow you to get more DPS in during raging strikes? It's a pet skill that is completely independent of your own character's rotation...

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This is from a game-pad standpoint without contagion mapped directly to the main bar. It takes a moment to switch to pet bar and pop contagion. I hadn't considered other setups until now, thus, I retract my previous statement regarding Contagion. It would not slow one down if used immediately with a different game-play setup. Though, it can be used any time before the shortest timed DoT expires and still maintain the DPS from Raging Strikes.

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Originally Posted by Headl3anger

Though, it can be used any time before the shortest timed DoT expires and still maintain the DPS from Raging Strikes.

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Yes, but the faster you use it, the faster you can use it again.

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Originally Posted by Headl3anger

This is from a game-pad standpoint without contagion mapped directly to the main bar.

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Oh okay! Yes, I suppose its difficult for game pad users. You're right in that you can use it at any point before bio (typically) expires, but also remember that the earlier you use it the more likely you'll have it sync up better.

Essentially, you can never use contagion more than once a minute. Because of lag, and garuda being a jerk, its typically a few seconds later. The more you delay, by the time RS rolls around again, you'll have 3 "delays" and there is a good chance if you delayed contagion by a couple seconds each time that it won't be up for RS'd DoTs. Of course you can also delay RS, but that also makes it annoying because of delaying.

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Originally Posted by pandabearcat

What?

Contagion takes nothing from you and can be used while you're doing anything. The only reason I can think of to delay contagion is so that you get a tiny bit extra dps from your pet during Spur/Rouse so it doesn't have to do the contagion animation (which btw, I'm not sure if it even actually delays wind blade since that has a CD).

Using energy drain during RS is a dps loss any way you look at it, starting around 20 seconds after opener when you could've gotten a third Fester.

RS is nice but its not the greatest thing ever. Its not worth sacrificing anything to put more stuff into it.

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Yes, but what if we could add just a bit more DPS?! :D It's a tool we have at our disposal and I wish to push it to its limits of usefulness.

A third Fester would be ideal and I would gladly replace Energy Drain with it! Though it takes more preparation than the rotation I suggested... I'll have to have Bio II, Miasma, and Bio all ticking before I pop Raging Strikes, then, just before Bio runs out, pop Raging Strikes, start with Fester, then continue the rotation I mentioned before without the Energy Drain! It's brilliant! Thank you for the suggestion! :D

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Originally Posted by Kevee

Yes, but the faster you use it, the faster you can use it again.

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Aha! More useful information. There are many things I don't properly consider on my own. I shall work on decreasing my delay there! (>.<)/

Your missing another Buff Hawk's Eye, its not much but it something else. Then, Quelling Strikes. Don't forget your Cross Class ability. SwiftCast, is a must too, you can throw your AOE super fast and still get in to your rotation and really do damage while not gain aggro with Quelling strikes. but remember, you burn a lot of power in this heavy boost rotation.

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Originally Posted by RegentP

Your missing another Buff Hawk's Eye, its not much but it something else. Then, Quelling Strikes. Don't forget your Cross Class ability. SwiftCast, is a must too, you can throw your AOE super fast and still get in to your rotation and really do damage while not gain aggro with Quelling strikes. but remember, you burn a lot of power in this heavy boost rotation.

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Hawk's eye literally does nothing for SMN. It boosts Dex and _physical_ accuracy.

You also don't want to be using Swiftcast inside of an RS rotation. Before, or after, but not in the middle, as you're still going to trigger a GCD if you swiftcast out a Shadow Flare or Tri-Disaster.

I use Rouse and Spur as often as they are up. It may slow your rotation slightly, but the increased dps should make up for that small delay in rotation. Besides, your dots continue to go so you will miss 1-2 ruins when putting up buffs? No big loss.

Hey everybody. Just curious while we're on the subject of rotations.... I noticed nobody mentioned "hawk's eye" or "quelling strikes"...i don't like leveling archer post RS just to get these cross-class abilities. I notice *sometimes* tank loses agro to me bet. DoT's during the ruin spam. Will i need HE or QS at end-game? will somebody notice?

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Originally Posted by T0rin

You also don't want to be using Swiftcast inside of an RS rotation. Before, or after, but not in the middle, as you're still going to trigger a GCD.

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? But the point of GCDs is to give you open oGCDs. Also regardless of the fact that shadowflare does not care about RS, you still want it up asap to avoid missing 1 tick.

[(Rouse/Spur) if you don't need to save for enkindle] > RS > Bio II > Miasma > [Bio | Fester] > Thunder > [Miasma II | Contagion | Swiftcast] > [Shadowflare | Enkindle (if you don't need to save)] > [Ruin II | Fester] > [Ruin II | Aetherflow (if you only had 2 flows saved)]

Is the rotation to get the most out of your opener, but bear in mind it eats through mana (more than the impending Aetherflow will cover). You almost MUST Ruin II to get that 2nd fester out before RS ends, unless you have enough spell speed. You must ruin II the 2nd ruin in order to get it in before RS fades as well.

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Originally Posted by pandabearcat

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Just curious how much Miasma II hits for you. I am pretty sure you can get a normal Ruin in and 2nd fester quite easily if you are not casting Miasma II, and I'm not sure it does enough damage on a single target (less than a Ruin for me) to clutter the rotation. Then again, I also pre-cast or lead off with Shadowflare, since it's not affected by RS, and I try not to use any action that's not going to be boosted inside of the buff. So that saves your Swiftcast, possibly you Enkindle depending on how you are using it. Which would lead to more of a:

**Shadowflare > RS > Bio II > Miasma > [Bio | Fester] > [Thunder| Contagion] > [Ruin until Fester is up again | Fester] at which time you should have 1 sec left on RS, which if you mash the button I guess you could fill with a Ruin II. **

I admit I am not using Rouse/Spur or Enkindle during RS, but if you Rouse/Spur before your Shadowflare, you could get your Enkindle in anywhere you can fit it. But to maximize RS, you probably shouldn't use any skill that's not buffed by it during it unless you have no other choice, and I am not sure of a situation that would apply.

Miasma II does 70 potency base, 120 with contagion, so its better than ruin, but not by much.

I don't see anything wrong with precasting sflare, I just don't like to do it I suppose, esp because the majority of the time bosses and such are moved before starting (or soon after starting).

Well also enkindle is off GCD, so you can use it during a Ruin II filler as well.

I like to precast buffs instead of sflare, since it is more mobile and I can do them as I run in too.

Just personal preference here, and it doesn't matter too much as long as you have your priorities right, extend RS DoTs, and get 2 festers in.