Converting from a WHM to SCH

Hi All, just want to get some advice converting or smoothing out my healing skill as a SCH from a WHM main.
Having healed Titan on both class, I felt really weak during post heart tumult on SCH ( WHM is on top in AoE healing, yes, but wasn't expected the difference to will make myself and succor/WD feel useless) , and wasn't any better on topping off tank for MB beside the instant lus(was told can't rely on lus) . Also when I started T1, I had trouble to keep up a WAR when split has 5+ stack on WHM. But the SCH with me (similar gear) had no issue at all. If i was in that SCH's place, I would probably just spam embrace/adlo+ lus when low, and psy when the WAR near top. But I cant wrap my head around the idea that's enough to keep the tank up.

So am I missing something as SCH? I know people keep saying that SCH is proactive healing, but with damage incoming like 4+ stack on T1 split, you have to spam anyway? how is that different than a WHM's cure bomb

TIA for any advice.

Don't be afraid to overheal with a Scholar. Having Succor or Adloquium already up when someone is at full health effectively extends their max HP. Even though Succor might heal for about 300-400, that's another 300-400 prevented. For stomps I can usually have succor already up then get off a couple while Titan pounding the ground, so that's about 900-1200 damage prevented per person. I'll also drop down a Sacred Soil to reduce damage taken further.

Make sure you're manually controlling your fairy for Mountain Buster. You should have no problem topping them up with Physick, Embrace, and maybe a Lustrate. As soon as Landslide goes out, start healing the tank and finish with Adloquium then precast a Physick and Embrace. With this set up, the tank usually just shrugs it off as if MB was just a regular hit.

For Caduceus, you should always be casting spells (and on any fight for that matter). What people mean by proactive is that some of the damage is prevented before it even lands. Caduceus does some really spiky damage which is what ends up killing a tank. By reducing the spike damage, it makes it less likely the tank'll suddenly fall over dead from 60% health because of a bad melee hit + hood swing combo.

I have both SCH and WHM so understand some of the thoughts you are having.

Espon is correct with the constant use of Adloquium as that stacked with Stoneskin can prevent a lot of damage.

The thing I love about SCH is that the job doesnt seem to get as much emnity as WHM. In Coil Turn 2 we have the SCH use Succor a lot as it keeps the back liners healed so the WHM can focus on the Tanks.

As SCH, if possible try to get your DoT rotation out every 20 seconds as the damage really helps the fight to progress faster.

Eye for an eye and Virus is super helpful in Turn 1 Last Boss too.

Thx for the replies. Maybe i shouldn't try to do an apple to apple compare here. But I think the way I play WHM really puts a bad taste on my sch. Probably gotta start to pay attention to boss incoming skill more rather than tank's hp bar to crunch more out from my sch, and need to figure out how to better balance adlo and psy spam.

You really can't do the apple to apple as you say because they use two different mechanics to do the job. At best you're comparing and apple to an orange. One is reactionary and the other pro-active, one is bullk healing, the other mixes mitigation with smaller heals. Figure out which one you wana do and do it well, easy as that.

SCHs aren't really that proactive at all.

I've downed Titan with some amazing scholars. They make Titan mechanics look like nothing. They know how to time virus and keep the whole party up over half health through 8+ stomps.

In coil my group has both a SMN and SCH. They are both amazing additions. The SCH recently leveled a WHM and will ask what I'd prefer her to run. I will always say SCH. The damage mitigating skills of the SMN are also really helpful in rotating virus and E4E cooldowns.

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Originally Posted by PetiteMalFleur

I've downed Titan with some amazing scholars. They make Titan mechanics look like nothing. They know how to time virus and keep the whole party up over half health through 8+ stomps.

In coil my group has both a SMN and SCH. They are both amazing additions. The SCH recently leveled a WHM and will ask what I'd prefer her to run. I will always say SCH. The damage mitigating skills of the SMN are also really helpful in rotating virus and E4E cooldowns.

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Virus is irrelevant. The WHM misses out on the Magic mitgation from Virus, which is more than made up for by Proshell.

A WHM trumps SCH if it is accompanied by a BRD.

Sch spam is not just 1 heal
It's Adlo, Phys, Adlo, Phys
When tank is full hp use 1 Adlo on him

Fairy can heal the party
When tank taking heavy dmg use Rouse (pet buff) for strong pet heals
Place fairy in a good spot, don't turn her AI off, let her heal the pt while ya focus tank

Virus boss for oh shit mom. maybe throw sacred soil if a lot of aoe
Never use Sacred Soil, but know the few situations when it should/can be used

Use up Aether stacks just before Aetherflow goes off cd
Use em on Lustrate (sometimes energy drain, almost never on sacred soil)

Not sure who told you not to Lustrate, but Lustrate is something you can use almost freely.
The way you gotta use Lustrate, is: keep holding onto it as long as you can only use it early if needed, once your Aetherflow has only 10-20 seconds of cd left use Lustrate whenever for whatever
This way 3 new stacks will be ready soon

As mentioned earlier, SCH is designed to be a proactive healer. Many tools in the SCH toolkit scream "MITIGATION!" such as shields from heals and Sacred Soil. We have tools like Virus will help reduce oncoming damage immediately while Eye for an Eye requires a bit of time to "setup" but the damage reduction is nothing to scoff at either.

For mass healing scenarios, saving Rouse for Eos and popping Whispering Dawn can help keep people going as well as give a nice small boost to your fairy's potency. It's not an immediate heal, but if you're confident the team will dodge the remaining oncoming damage, it'll get them topped off effectively.

Since you have both jobs leveled, I would recommend starting any new fight as WHM to get used to the mechanics since WHM is all about reactive healing. Once your comfortable with how the boss operates, you can make the move to SCH and have a more comfortable understanding of what to expect and know when to use which tools to maximize their benefits to the fight. In some cases, you just need to spam cures, but you can help reduce the frequency this happens by knowing a fight before hand.

One thing I've always found a little odd, and maybe I'm just paranoid or I'm actually terrible at this game, but when I visit the forums I rarely see many people talking about the Scholar class' offensive spells and abilities. It's always just about how to heal. Which confused the crap out of me, because I spend almost as much time throwing dots on everything as I do actively healing.

Thanks for the info! :) I want to start leveling Scholar myself and this has helped me understand what I need to start looking at, but I have a question, someone mentioned to keep the AI of the faerie on, but I have seen some other posts where it says to micromanage the faerie, which will be best or what is the "perfect" combination for this to maximize my heals on the party?

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Originally Posted by Eredhyl

Thanks for the info! :) I want to start leveling Scholar myself and this has helped me understand what I need to start looking at, but I have a question, someone mentioned to keep the AI of the faerie on, but I have seen some other posts where it says to micromanage the faerie, which will be best or what is the "perfect" combination for this to maximize my heals on the party?

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I normally just place Selene and let her blow her cooldowns whenever she feels like it because the 20% speed is helpful at anytime... Eos on the other hand i place and put on steady so she only casts embrace so when your party really needs the AOE heals you can tell her to cast them... otherwise she wastes them at completely pointless times.

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Originally Posted by Derza

I normally just place Selene and let her blow her cooldowns whenever she feels like it because the 20% speed is helpful at anytime... Eos on the other hand i place and put on steady so she only casts embrace so when your party really needs the AOE heals you can tell her to cast them... otherwise she wastes them at completely pointless times.

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Thanks, I will try that. Just one more question, Which is the best place the faerie? Is it near the tank, but like on the side of the boss?

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Originally Posted by Eredhyl

Thanks, I will try that. Just one more question, Which is the best place the faerie? Is it near the tank, but like on the side of the boss?

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depends on the boss... for the most part i put mine behind the boss and to one side... like back left or right of boss.

Scholar dps is very similar to summoner dps. The biggest difference is that you do not use fester to augment the damage after laying down the dots. A full dot rotation (Bio, bio2, miasma, shadowflare) takes around 7-8 seconds and can usually be done if you leave your fairy to heal. Just remember to have your fairy near the tank and adloquium beforehand. Use Ruin2 to blind if you need as well. If it is a speedrun, you can also rouse Eos and "eye for an eye"/sacred soil to buy you a few seconds of healing while you dps.

Placement of the fairy is very important and will vary depending on the fight. You will generally want to place the fairy in a location where it can heal the tank, won't get hit by aoe, and is in range of other party members as well (back of boss usually, sometimes to the side). There are some variations depending on the boss' attack pattern, but it is important to remember that the boss might target your fairy for their own attacks. Because of this, you will generally not want the fairy to catch the tank in a potential aoe if that happens (e.g. Titan's landslide).

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Originally Posted by Garnatian

Virus is irrelevant. The WHM misses out on the Magic mitgation from Virus, which is more than made up for by Proshell.

A WHM trumps SCH if it is accompanied by a BRD.

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Virus is absolutely relevant. With Virus (which, when cross-classed, does not effect Tumult since it's magic damage), Sacred Soil, and Fey Covenant up you can get tumult ticks down to about 420-470 dmg per which is an absolutely massive reduction in healing burden on later tumults. Then on the next round you can use EfaE, Fey Illumination, and Sacred Soil, which won't reduce tumult damage quite as much, but makes up for it with the buffed heals on both you and the WHM (if you're duo healing). Next round, you go back to the first set of cooldowns since Titan's rotation is just over a minute long.

Also, the increased magic defense from Proshell does not provide anywhere near the same amount of mitigation as Supervirus. I've had runs where I only put Fey Covenant up (20% magic defense, vs Proshell's 10%) and then on the next round only put Virus up and the difference is quite large, around 60 points per tumult.

Anyway, OP, make sure you do not neglect Eos's buffs or leave them on autocast. Keybind Obey, Steady, and Place, as well as her abilities. Always use Obey and Steady when summoning her or changing zones, and Place her within range of the tank during fights. She's much better at spamming heals when manually placed for whatever reason. If you're going to use Fey Illumination, make sure you place her somewhat close to both you and the WHM since the range is a bit small (15y). Being a good SCH healer has a lot to do with managing you and your fairy's cooldowns properly. You have a ton of them and they're quite powerful. I can solo heal well past 9 tumults without much of an issue as long as people aren't making me waste mana on healing lots of avoidable damage from plumes/bombs. Hell I find solo healing Titan easier on my SCH than my WHM because I don't need to concern myself with MP or threat generation whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by Garnatian

Virus is irrelevant. The WHM misses out on the Magic mitgation from Virus, which is more than made up for by Proshell.

A WHM trumps SCH if it is accompanied by a BRD.

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Ideally you're going to have both a white mage and a scholar, so I'm not sure what you're trying to get at with this.

i can spot whm mains playing as sch from a mile away. they tend to stand too far away from the action and often spam physic and wait to long to start healing the tank

Know when Tumult is coming so you can prepare:

Virus / Sacred Soil / Succor (For shield on all) / Rouse (+40% fairy healing) / Fey Illumination (+20% all healing inc fairy again) / Whispering Dawn. (7 ticks for everyone inc pets, 350+ a tick with 10% dmg reduction, succor shields and heals and virus lowing the dmg by 15%)

Prepare all that and tumult is nothing but a tickle. ^^

Learn how to control Eos. 'Obey' mode > Rouse > Fey Illumination and watch her blow everything with +40% and +20% healing attached. Yes she goes out of obey mode after this but you have like 55 seconds to put her back in, its not as hard as people make it sound.

Another basic tip I forgot to add.
Make sure to keybind your fairy skills.

As for if you should or shouldn't leave fairy AI on, in most cases you can just leave it on really.
There are some cases where manual control truly is better, but overall the difference is not huge.

Thanks all for chipping in the tips. I ran some primal today with my sch, and really as someone mentioned i probably have to get over this mentallity change from waiting for shit to happen. I am okay with manually play around with fairy, but ya.... somehow thorwing an adlo at a tank thats almost full seems very odd to me. Maybe cuz i try to associate that with cure2 :x guess i will just have to force myself to do it couple times to see the effective side of it.

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Originally Posted by Hitaru

Thanks all for chipping in the tips. I ran some primal today with my sch, and really as someone mentioned i probably have to get over this mentallity change from waiting for shit to happen. I am okay with manually play around with fairy, but ya.... somehow thorwing an adlo at a tank thats almost full seems very odd to me. Maybe cuz i try to associate that with cure2 :x guess i will just have to force myself to do it couple times to see the effective side of it.

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But Adloquim is not the same thing as Cure II. And if it crits it's an awesome shield. I've not seen a WHM make shields. It only seems weird because you can't see the fact that you're preventing damage, but trust.....it's being prevented.

That is where a lot of people prefer WHM to SCH, because they fall into the big number syndrome. Arcanist in general is all about the small numbers. DoTs, HoT (Really just Wispering Wind, but technically Embrace is a 600-700 HoT on a 3sec tick...), and mitigation making big red numbers smaller.

That is also why people love WHM+SCH. Big green numbers, little red numbers. They look nice and give you warm fuzzies.

I'm sure that most of this has been covered but the Scholar is more complex than solely replacing health.

1) You are buffing the whm heals.
2) You are reducing titan's damage both with slow, eye for an eye, virus and sacred soil, hell even your nukes blind. These effects aren't visible as such or measured on a parser.
3) Scholar consists of 2 healers and you can heal for the entire fight, even if you're running around, as long as you place your pet and have her heal enabled on your hotbar. You may heal with adloqium for as low as 700 sometimes and yes you have to double that for damage absorb but don't forget your pet is healing not far off what you do whilst buffing heals, magic resistance or total team damage output.

....continued....
4) Because you're 2 healers, you can dps and heal and you can heal 2 players at the same time without having to waste loads of MP on an AOE heal.
6) Although you don't heal like WHM, you protect the health the party has. The WHM should be providing most of the party health but succor and adloquium caps the health in.
7) You split aggro between your pet and yourself, so heal with extreme prejudice.

If you consider healing to be based on team survival rather than solely HP replacement, it's easy to see that Scholar is actually quite a powerful role. These are some of the advantages to the team of having a scholar and this is why a Scholar White Mage is the best healing mix in the game, you have a health replacement career and a damage reduction/health replacement/and damage absorption career.
Sweet eh?

I have switched from WHM to SCH as main.
Keep in mind healing a tank isn't just about YOU, it is also about the tanks gear. If the snakes hit 5+ stacks you're party is taking WAY to long to down it. Could be because of your method on t1 we always take the main snake to 5-10% then completely switch DDs and burn the second. Our warrior experience with healing says you should have about equal gear to your healer to your tank.

I put eos on the platform behind or beside the warrior tank. Rouse when available. I throw eye for an eye on the Warrior tank right at the split, virus, and aldo. Usually its cool down before 3-4 stacks hit. I psy to fill his HP then adlo then top him off. The only time I feel myself pressing lus is if his hp drops dangerously low and this happens at about 4-5 stacks. His healing buff should help keep him stay at max hp and help your healing. You should be Psy spamming basically. If I have the time I use sacred soil. Mitigation is YOUR ultimate tool.