Japanese game has Euro servers in Canada? Seriously? Even for Central EU players it's not a good placement. It's acceptable for most NA players but not for Europe players.
Most online game has their EU servers in France or Germany, it's a common servers placement. So why you are so special? Or it's special politics to raise overal latency? And you planing to add PvP?..
Whatever I didn't do (public/private UDPproxy from several countries), it don't help me to lower latency. On another hand, mostly all other games works fine and don't raise higher than 50-60ms (usual 30-35). Even now i have some problems with reacting on NPC actions in-time. What would be when PvP comes?
Latency more than 130ms
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11-10-2013, 02:56 AMAxgardLatency more than 130ms
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11-10-2013, 05:19 AMntall1
I'm sure SE's plans for pvp are just as generic as everything else in the game. With the lag, and latency issues every has I bet this game's pvp will be just as <sarcasm>exciting</sarcasm> as pvp is in GW2.
But if you are waiting for servers to open in new locations.. I would not hold your breath. This should have been done months ago, and with all the players dropping this game atm I seriously doubt SE wants to spend more money opening up new server locations. But I guess we will never know because SE does not communicate with the player base. After all this forum is for players to contact and get help from other players... Not SE reps.
I used to love getting MMO's at launch because its fun to discover a whole new world. But after the last 10 years of MMO releases I think its just best to wait about a year before trying them. They all release with so many problems that none of the are worth a sub price in the first 12 months.
CT will not improve this game, nor will housing or PvP. To improve the game the devs need to fix the glaring issues first. The main one of those glaring issues is server locations. -
11-10-2013, 05:21 AMSirAmikVase
They wont get us EU servers because all the square enix white knights on this forum keep telling them that we aren't having problems with lag when we clearly are. Just try getting out of the red circles in coil during prime time raiding hours, it's impossible.
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11-10-2013, 06:48 PMCrimsonforce
must suck to have 130ms :( wish i had it tho 350-450ms from australia to NA servers. reason i play on NA servers is i have alot of friends in NA that choose that server. i just learnt to premove for everything.
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11-10-2013, 11:21 PMSove92
130ms is horrible in MMORPG? Oh c'mon, problems only start once it reaches 300's. On the other hand, there are people who say 47ms is unplayable, too. Blinking your eyes takes 300-400ms.
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11-10-2013, 11:38 PMDriltanNormal people choose EU servers to play with good latencies or/and good conditions, 130ms is horrible yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sove92
In 2013, players expect good servers to play in good conditons.
Square Enix did put their said EU servers in Canada, it doesn't help, but those servers seem to not handle big amount of players. So in Europe we have 130-150ms base latencies + server lags on week end and on the week at players' activity spikes.
The "EU" tag on servers is a troll. No need to try to defend SE about this. -
11-11-2013, 02:40 AMAxgard130ms in this game is horrible. For example - if i summon mount while running i get "interrupted" message after cast bar is already full. Or when i'm loading into new location i get about 1 second delay before i can freely move my character at any directions and it after new zone is shows up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sove92
And 130 ms i've got when pinging server IP, so there may be some additional latency between client-server connection.
PS: And I usually blink of an eyes less than 250ms. ;) -
11-11-2013, 06:28 AMRisae300 build in + 140-200 latency is kinda huge for an MMO where you have to be "out of the fire".Quote:
Originally Posted by Sove92
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11-11-2013, 09:58 AMKallistiThis^Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimsonforce
130ms is perfectly playable, NZ/Aus players have to live with 300ms + on most games. Seriously, big whoop, 130ms :rolleyes: -
11-11-2013, 11:12 AMKrisomOh man, must suck trying to premove everything and become dead weight to your team by the loss of damage, dispositions and much more. - Please, the whole "It sucks more to be me so you should handle it because I am PredictionMasterX and crippled by performance so there's nothing stopping you." argument simply doesn't work.Quote:
must suck to have 130ms wish i had it tho 350-450ms from australia to NA servers. reason i play on NA servers is i have alot of friends in NA that choose that server. i just learnt to premove for everything.
Sure people exaggerate a bit when they say 130ms is unplayable but they're absolutely right about it impacting performance when the majority are probably used to 50ms~.
You know what else is an exaggeration?
130ms isn't perfectly playable by all means. Another one who thinks because they got a worse connection that other people should tolerate it. It's listed as an EU Server and at first I expected it to be an EU Server and if I knew before hand that the game's server were physically positioned in Canada I would have probably not had tried the game out.Quote:
130ms is perfectly playable
You two on the other hand? Chose to roll on a NA server, we chose to roll on a EU server not a server that's thousands of miles away and across the sea. -
11-11-2013, 11:49 AMAxgard
http://i.imgur.com/gK49Ehl.png
One someway becomes two
http://i.imgur.com/jInd3jQ.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/kc0oNEc.png
Server lag 800ms @2:31am? Seriously?
And always packet loss starts when i pass through Canadian servers or on 1-2 hop's before (usually New York's servers). -
11-11-2013, 01:45 PMBrysonplenty o lag!
i get a lot of lag as well.
does this sow any signs as to why I lag so much?
2 32 ms 30 ms 29 ms cpe-75-80-208-1.hawaii.res.rr.com [75.80.208.1]
3 13 ms 13 ms 15 ms 24.25.231.225
4 16 ms 16 ms 14 ms tge0-5-0-7.milnhixd01r.hawaii.rr.com [72.129.46.
192]
5 64 ms 68 ms 67 ms agg31.lsancarc01r.socal.rr.com [72.129.45.0]
6 66 ms 68 ms 63 ms bu-ether16.lsancarc0yw-bcr00.tbone.rr.com [66.10
9.6.102]
7 67 ms 66 ms 62 ms 107.14.19.86
8 78 ms 79 ms 81 ms ix-5-3-0-0.tcore2.LVW-LosAngeles.as6453.net [64.
86.252.165]
9 164 ms * 159 ms if-22-2.tcore2.PDI-PaloAlto.as6453.net [66.198.1
44.73]
10 157 ms 160 ms 154 ms if-11-3.tcore2.CT8-Chicago.as6453.net [66.198.14
4.58]
11 159 ms 157 ms 184 ms if-3-2.tcore1.W6C-Montreal.as6453.net [66.198.96
.45]
12 159 ms 162 ms 155 ms 66.198.96.58
13 248 ms 241 ms 398 ms te7-4.dr9.mtl.iweb.com [184.107.1.110]
14 218 ms 222 ms 236 ms 72.55.128.44
15 274 ms 278 ms 282 ms 184.107.107.176
I transferred from the lagfest over on overcrowed behemoth to goblin, and it's not quite as bad, but during peak I still see several second delays on my cast time.
I've done pingtest which had me under 30, had someone from my isp (time warner cable) and they said nothing seems to be the problem.
I don't get this issue on other game, so any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks -
11-11-2013, 01:56 PMAxgard
For now i using UDP proxy directly to Canada. Latency lowered a bit, but still to high.
And is not a useful way, coz i must pay for proxy too. =) -
11-11-2013, 02:11 PMRaistyou first run into trouble getting to that www.eidos.com webserver (that's not your gameserver by the way, it's the IP for about a dozen websites--the Canada IP your game uses starts with 199) when coming across California to Illinois, then over the border into Canada on the TATA segments (as6453). Notice how the latency doubles AFTER you hit L.A.--and you had one packet get dropped. That San Jose area has been suffering from congestion problems for a long time now. That just stacks with the latency in Canada to further compound what might otherwise be tolerable. I can run 50-100ms from SC (even the last hops into SE's servers), and it's still manageable even with the packet losses I sometimes get in the DC/VA area.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryson
Edit:
well, crap... TWC changed the routing again. They've moved me back towards Charlotte and Cogent again. When I was going to Raleigh and using TATA the last couple weeks, I was getting nice numbers through DC/VA (50-80ms almost all the way), but was getting around 40% packet loss between Herndon/Ashburn. This route may wind up being much cleaner though, even if the times are a bit higher along the way. Will have to run the pathpings on it over the next couple weeks to see how it holds up and let them know:
Code:Tracing route to 199.91.189.74 over a maximum of 30 hops
<initial hops removed for security>
4 25 ms 26 ms 22 ms 24.93.64.130
5 30 ms 30 ms 30 ms bu-ether44.atlngamq46w-bcr00.tbone.rr.com [107.14.19.46]
6 28 ms 29 ms 27 ms 107.14.19.11
7 81 ms 78 ms 78 ms te0-0-0-10.ccr21.atl02.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.12.109]
8 81 ms 78 ms 81 ms be2050.ccr21.atl01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.0.165]
9 90 ms 94 ms 89 ms be2168.ccr21.dca01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.31.94]
10 95 ms 93 ms 96 ms be2150.mpd21.jfk02.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.31.130]
11 111 ms 113 ms 112 ms be2108.ccr21.ymq02.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.3.134]
12 52 ms 50 ms 49 ms 38.122.42.34
13 64 ms 64 ms 63 ms 10.2.2.1
14 65 ms 65 ms 65 ms 192.34.76.2
15 65 ms 65 ms 66 ms 199.91.189.234
16 63 ms 64 ms 64 ms 199.91.189.74
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11-11-2013, 02:29 PMGrimmWulf
LOL quit your crying, try playing over here in Australia, then you will see what real delay is like.
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11-11-2013, 05:57 PMAxgardLOL, do you realize what we all trying to say same thing about troubles while playing not from CA/NA regions? =)Quote:
Originally Posted by GrimmWulf
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11-11-2013, 06:55 PMZohnoReechoThat's not a game server.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryson
IPs are on http://www.arrstatus.com/. Just put your mouse on the server name. -
11-11-2013, 07:55 PMKallisti130ms is fine. So long as you're not playing vs some guy with 30ms you're winning, and seeing as all the guys playing on EU servers will probably have same ping as you then there is no issue at all. There is tons of time to avoid telegraphed attacks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Krisom
If you can't play with a piddly 130ms ping then the problem is behind the keyboard aka you. -
11-11-2013, 08:15 PMKraggyKorHow true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kallisti
I've raided in WOW and LOTRO on NA servers with 'ping' times of at least 150 and at times 250 without any noticeable problems. People in NA and EU have been playing FFXI for nearly 10 years with whatever 'ping' times we get to Japan without ANY PROBLEM due to it.
I can play this game just fine with 130, the only problem I have is like that suffered even by JP players with 30 'ping' and that is the 300ms position update stupidity. -
11-11-2013, 08:56 PMAxgardYou are wrong in basics. If you talking about PVP then pings must be aggregated. Yours both 130-150ms becomes 300ms between you hit the button to when your opponent see your character animation and can start react. Plus server lag which triple the latency. In result we have about time lag in ~1 second, minimum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kallisti
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11-11-2013, 09:16 PMKerethril
The commitment of aussies to this thread is astounding. Unfortunately the premise of "I have it worse than you so you have no right o complain" is false and can't serve as an argument. You're playing the dog in the manger.
A petty jab and rather misfired. Do you perhaps understand what 'perfectly playable' entails and why the word 'perfectly' was emphasised? Did the poster you quoted complain about not being able to play the game? No, he instead pointed out that his experience is sub-par, which it obviously is beacuse the difference in responsiveness between 130ms and 30ms is typically massive. Especially since it's not really about constant 130ms, but about a value that fluctuates and gives an average of 130. If you never had a chance to play in low latency world, that's a shame, but not a legitimate reason to dismiss the complaints of players who expect higher standards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kallisti
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11-11-2013, 09:29 PMIselore
The 130+ms latency is almost manageable but far from a perfect raiding experience... what's ruining the game for me personally is the 130+ms coupled with the intermittent spike latency and 300ms server side positioning delay.
I'm glad the game is tuned in a way that the mechanics are challenging but when myself and other members of my raid are suffering from lag/dcs and eating AoE's then magically corpse teleporting to the other side of the room because the server just updated their position, it makes me wonder why I bother.
...really not looking forward to PvP with the game the way it is now. -
11-11-2013, 10:07 PMYochanan
I say we all bombard the ask the producer thread and twitter and bomb the hell out of the live twitter feed with pre translated from English to Japanese questions about the lag then maybe we might get some form of acknowledgement even if it is more bullshit about zooming the camera out as if that's ever going to fix the cheap shitty coding se outsourced.......
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11-12-2013, 03:04 AMBryson
I play on Goblin, this is what I get. is there anything I can do, to offset the delay?
1 31.918 ms 15.240 ms 14.225 ms cpe-75-80-208-1.hawaii.res.rr.com (75.80.208.1)
2 8.979 ms 10.065 ms 15.179 ms 24.25.231.225 (24.25.231.225)
3 14.218 ms 13.597 ms 16.094 ms tge0-5-0-7.milnhixd-ccr01.hawaii.rr.com (72.129.46.192)
4 61.223 ms 63.114 ms 63.750 ms agg31.lsancarc01r.socal.rr.com (72.129.45.0)
5 63.142 ms 63.285 ms 67.792 ms bu-ether26.lsancarc0yw-bcr00.tbone.rr.com (66.109.6.212)
6 62.381 ms 59.755 ms 62.907 ms ae-0-0.pr0.lax00.tbone.rr.com (66.109.6.135)
7 75.022 ms 76.375 ms 81.471 ms ix-5-2-1-0.tcore2.LVW-LosAngeles.as6453.net (64.86.252.157)
8 171.498 ms 169.506 ms 174.971 ms if-22-2.tcore2.PDI-PaloAlto.as6453.net (66.198.144.73)
9 166.653 ms 169.979 ms 170.194 ms if-11-3.tcore2.CT8-Chicago.as6453.net (66.198.144.58)
10 172.053 ms 173.600 ms 172.126 ms if-3-2.tcore1.W6C-Montreal.as6453.net (66.198.96.45)
11 176.699 ms 169.904 ms 168.615 ms 66.198.96.50 (66.198.96.50)
12 186.211 ms 206.455 ms 184.535 ms 192.34.76.2 (192.34.76.2)
13 169.017 ms 172.955 ms 174.433 ms 199.91.189.234 (199.91.189.234)
14 189.362 ms 185.332 ms 185.377 ms 199.91.189.26 (199.91.189.26) -
11-12-2013, 03:09 AMZohnoReechoThe problem is the 8th node. There was a thread about people lagging after los angeles node.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryson
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11-12-2013, 04:25 AMKallisti
130ms is fine. If you're getting spikes then ask your ISP to check your routing and fix it.
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11-12-2013, 05:31 AMAxgardOnce again, 130 ms is ping to datacenter directly. Game server usually triple it in my case. And ISP can't do anything with routing outside his domain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kallisti
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11-12-2013, 06:38 AMKallistiThey can change how they are routing traffic to the server. You need to talk to them, as it has to be your end/the way you are being routed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Axgard
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11-12-2013, 07:40 AMntall1This is not a practical solution because most ISP's will just ignore you, or you will never really get to speak to anyone who has the power to make these changes. The issues is fully SE's fault for choosing to have all NA/EU servers in the same location. This is a huge noob mistake. Players paying for a service should not have to work so hard to get the service to work properly. Part of ensuring quality service to all customers would have been to open up servers in multiple locations to not only lower ping based on location, but to also deal with these routing issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kallisti
I feel bad for TATA, and Cogneto because their lines would not be so crowded if SE's game traffic didnt all flow thru their lines at the same time due to a crappy server administration department. I am sure the release of FF14 has also caused packet loss for other non related services using these same lines. -
11-12-2013, 07:46 AMKallistiThen escalate your issue, and if that fails change your ISP. Something is going wrong with the routing if you are getting spikes greater than the actual distance ping to server.Quote:
Originally Posted by ntall1
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11-12-2013, 07:58 AMntall1You think no one has tried that at this point? This issue has been around for over two months. There have been countless conversations with ISP from not only myself, but others.. What you claim to be a solution will 99% of the time not be a solution.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kallisti
We all know that the issues lies inside the routing to the server. Not everyone's ISP will accommodate these kind of requests. Not everyone lives in locations or has the budget to just change ISP's on a whim. My town has 3 ISP's. Two of them are held together with tooth picks and bubble gum, and the only decent one is extremely expensive. Switching also usually involves breaking contracts, and paying installation costs. Your solutions are not practical simply to play one online game with little to no content. -
11-12-2013, 08:36 AMKallistiYou can't expect the game to make a whole new server farm because a handful of people won't change their ISP.Quote:
Originally Posted by ntall1
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11-12-2013, 09:29 AMRaist
I've had repeated success dealing with my ISP over the years (recently rebranded from Road Runner to Time Warner). They addressed this very issue for me twice with FFXI, and they are working currently on it again for FFXIV. Not because I contacted SE and they then went to TWC--we've been contacting TWC directly. I say "we" because I haven't been alone in this effort. I and others have emailed details directly to the NOC, and others have opened multiple threads on their forums about packet loss for not only XIV but other games as well and there has been a lot of discussion the last few months over the issue in general, sometimes fingering their routing partners specifically by name as well as their failing FQDN's and/or IP's where loss was detected.
The trick has always been getting away from the generic help desk and actually getting through to Tier3 support--or at least a supervisor at Tier2, who will hopefully gather your details and forward it to T3. Those Tier1 guys can't do much beyond their scripted approach, even the supervisors are constrained sometimes. If for whatever reason you can't get it escalated there, many have forums you can go to and push for escalation there. It worked for the O2 guys last month, and it's working with TWC for me so far--they've been tweaking my route periodically since we started reporting to the NOC via emails and their forums. Think this last change back to Charlotte and Cogentco was my 5th routing change since opening the issue with them.
Just saying... can't just assume everyone will fail to get support. Perhaps the first couple who report it will be ignored---but if it happens en masse, they will be more compelled to take action. So, to advise people not to even bother is very counter productive---should instead be encouraging everyone to report it, and not only to their ISP's. Also forward the details to SE through their support portal as well.
Remember, this forum is NOT a support line to SE--need to use the portal to make sure they get your report. -
11-12-2013, 12:44 PMntall1Odd... I actually expected there to be server farms in multiple locations from the very start. You are right.. They should not have to add more because they should already be there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kallisti
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11-12-2013, 01:41 PMRaistBazinga!Quote:
Originally Posted by ntall1
yeah... they should have learned from the whole JP vs the world issues they had with XI way back when. I understand what they were hoping for by splitting it up like this, but they really should have looked more closely at their demographics and come up with a better strategy from the start.
But... when have they ever done anything that makes sense.... -
11-12-2013, 05:32 PMAxgardOk, let i show you how it works. Your ISP has some territory on which he share his service. Your ISP has their own ISP where he buys his pool of addresses and inet channel for his own purposes (sale it to you).This second ISP manage how traffic comes out from your region/city. Then some (count depends on where you live,but not what ISP you choose) servers redirect your traffic to target IP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kallisti
In my case my traffic firstly pass all european servers and then some NA servers on which i have problem. So there is no reliable solutions what may solve my problem with any ISP in my city. -
11-12-2013, 05:59 PMJLTaserHey Raist,Quote:
Originally Posted by Raist
I just wanted you to know that I've just recently had my routing issue with TWC (affecting multiple users in my area) escalated to NOC as well and am awaiting updates and results. Thanks for all the advice. Like you mentioned, they're more inclined to act if they see that it's not just you, but a few others along with you. The ISP support forums are a great way to start with (aside from your personal ticket). In my case, after I had created the support ticket, I found a thread in their forums that outlined the same issue. Adding my troubles to that thread helped to get TWC to escalate the problem to NOC (I believe I was the 4th or 5th individual to claim the same issue). -
11-12-2013, 10:34 PMMordrim
The lag is still going on? LOL Glad i stopped playing weeks ago and saved many friends the hassle of buying this game. "It's not their job to create servers for their users, change your ISP." LOOOL yeaaaaahhhhhh no, see my ISP is great and FF14 needs costumers while i don't need FF14.. So who should be fixing what?
Good luck to the guys staying through it, even though you are probably wasting the most valuable thing: Time. -
11-12-2013, 11:06 PMBobbinT
want to create latency lag challenge easily? Tether your internet from your smartphone with your provider already have internet capabilities active. See if you can still play with so much lag. I'm taking easily 350+ ms and fluctuate heavily. lol
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11-12-2013, 11:56 PMOzpa
Australians with 300ms+ please hold your horses with saying 120ms is nothing. Yes, 120>300. I wouldn't even play this game with 200ms+ but that's mainly because I come from old fps games (Q3/UT/CS1.6) where 40-60ms is what you need to compete without having to predict enemy movement (we're talking very close to LAN pings). That's what most people from the same continent should be playing at. There are 2 more things besides this 120ms that are poop:
1) 0.3s server-player position update delay - 1st time I see this crap in a game. Remember all the times you barely moved out of the red danger area and still got hit?
2) The non-action combat system in the game - combat system in this game in a nutshell -> get out of the red danger area before it disappears. Even if you move behind the monster or are way out of reach of it's swing arc when it does the animation you will still get hit. Coming from TERA this combat system is annoying and archaic but the boss mechanics in this game are still fun enough to continue playing for now. ESO and Wildstar should be the 2 next big MMOs that have true action combat.