The Tank DPS Thread

There is a pretty ongoing debate regarding tank DPS, so I wanted to create a thread with actual player parses. This thread is purely for science and data, so let's keep the trolling minimal. Try to post screen shots of your DPS.

Gear/Stats: http://imgur.com/PbYqoSi
(Regular Bravura.)

6 tests: 3 in defiance and w/o defiance. 1 long duration (Until TP ran out), short (One minute duration) and initial burst (When initial berserk ends). Tests were all performed on a lv 1 dummy in Summerford. Each test used a different dummy than the last.

Album: http://imgur.com/a/yPll4

Defiance Long Duration: 133 dps (Pretty consistently 135)
Defiance 1 Min Duration: 156 dps
Defiance Berserk Duration: 178 dps

No Defiance Long Duration: 168 dps
No Defiance 1 Min Duration: 175 dps
No Defiance Berserk Duration: 230 dps

The Basic Rot.:
Initial Burst: HS, (Internal Release), Maim, (Berserk), SE, Fracture, HS, SS, BB, HS, SS, BB, (Pacification, Fracture is ticking) (If in defiance, I will have popped Unchained/Infuriate at end of pacify)
Consistent: HS, Maim, SE, HS, SS, BB, HS, SS, BB
For duration Brutal Swing off CD for extra damage.

Update: http://imgur.com/cqNyku5

Defiance Long Duration: 139 Dps
Change: Better usage of Inner Beast and CD management

http://i.imgur.com/pSgbl67.jpg - Berserk Duration

http://i.imgur.com/2mbx0yB.jpg - 3min No Defiance

Bravura, NO +1
418 str

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/2263039/

Tagging this for later. I did some tests before seeing this thread and if I remember correctly, my long duration DPS was 248-250. If we're talking just the Berserk duration I should be able to break 400. Depends on the crits hahaha.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stormx

http://i.imgur.com/pSgbl67.jpg - Berserk Duration

http://i.imgur.com/2mbx0yB.jpg - 3min No Defiance

Bravura, NO +1
418 str

---

Full relic or are you using DPS gear + stat allocation?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Leiron

Full relic or are you using DPS gear + stat allocation?

---

1 Piece myth, rest was full darklight, including DPS accessories. Normal Bravura at the time of that particular test, 30 vit, iirc

YES! I love this thread, I have been leveling my marauder with DPS gear and the damage is insane. I do not have a parser since i play on ps3. It is good to see that they are viable melee dps. Now to eliminate enmity from their abilities and my dreams will be complete bwahahaha..maybe not now but soon...soon.

If I could, I would play MRD w/ Allagan Axe and full Allagan gear. You would have access to Blood for Blood, Raging Strikes, and most importantly - Quelling Strikes. It would be amazing.

I have managed to hit 210 DPS with No Defiance, +30 Strength, Bravura, Dragoon/Monk accessories, and AF2/Allagan gear on. (Only Hoplite is Boots for now)
I tested again with Defiance. and spamming IB as soon as it's available tends to show only a 30 DPS Decrease.

I found Fracture to decrese my Damage Output over time, so I just focused on Storms Eye ---> Butchers Block.
I made sure I had Maim and Storms Eye up 100% of the time, instead of using 2 BB Combos, this also allows IB to always hit for the most damage.
If your looking to absolutely maximize your damage, then keep Defiance off, however, It's still more beneficial to have the HP Boost and IB Heals going on in Dungeons. (AK/WP)

Last AK I ran, I severly out damaged a Relic +1 Bard in AK... Dunno if it's all player skill, but even in Titan group helping, I was consistantly 3rd on the Damage. (Under a geared out bard, and a Geared out Monk)


Finally, I tested Marauder DPSing with Garuda Axe in Praetorium, and it's terribly lacking in damage. Blood for Blood and Raging Strikes are not nearly what they're cracked up to be, especially if you have access to AF2. I'm in Helm/Chest/Gloves AF2, and I'm thinking about +1 to my Axe instead of Boots or Pants next time around.


My final notes: Marauder is worthless. The Cool downs are too long to give you better DPS then Warrior has access to gear wise. Just play Dragoon or Monk if you have no AF2/Relic. You WILL just do better if you are competent.

I'll post Screen Shots laster today, after I re-run testing with both set-ups until I'm out of TP.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZDamned

1My final notes: Marauder is worthless. The Cool downs are too long to give you better DPS then Warrior has access to gear wise. Just play Dragoon or Monk if you have no AF2/Relic. You WILL just do better if you are competent.

I'll post Screen Shots laster today, after I re-run testing with both set-ups until I'm out of TP.

---

That is very wrong. With allagan axe and equivalent gear a MRD will significantly beat a WAR with the CDs it has.

If you want to be realistic with a tank-mode scenario (ie, Defiance on and having to hold agro over other players), then your first 3 weaponskills should be HS, SS, BB -- not the HS, Maim, SE the OP has here. Wouldn't want to risk others taking agro at the start. Of course if you were purely in a DPS role for the group, then you would stay with HS, Maim, SE as first combo.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stormx

That is very wrong. With allagan axe and equivalent gear a MRD will significantly beat a WAR with the CDs it has.

---

The problem ZDamned is pointing out is that MRD DPS is nearly unattainable. Myth gear is much easier to collect than full Allagan.

Heavy Allagan Stats with the Battleaxe. (Best case scenario for Marauder)

Strength: - 143
Vitality: - 161
Parry: - 105
Accuracy: - 107
Determination: - 53
Skill Speed: - 0

AF2 Stats with Bravura +1

Strength: - 143
Vitality: - 161
Parry: - 125
Accuracy: - 66
Determination: - 39
Skill Speed: - 41

Warrior is also boosted more strength from the crystal, AND has the ability to mix and Match gear, Swapping the boots out from AF2 for Allagan.

AF2+Allagan Boots (Bravura +1)

Strength: - 143
Vitality: - 161
Parry: - 119
Accuracy: - 45
Determination: - 50
Skill Speed: - 41

AF2+Allagan Boots (Allagan Battleaxe)

Strength: - 143
Vitality: - 161
Parry: - 82
Accuracy: - 82
Determination: - 68
Skill Speed: - 15

It's safe to say Blood for Blood and Raging Strikes are not going to make up for those consistent stats. Marauder just doesn't have access to the gear.

(Edit adding the Warrior stats with Allagan battleaxe.)

As you are correct, MRD has more variety in gear, the fact MRD with garuda axe parses within 15% of WAR with AF2 and Bravura. I'm going to say MRD with Allagan axe will more than close the dps gap.

Raging strikes and blood for blood is a much higher dps difference than you are giving it credit for.

DPS MRD w/Titan Axe

http://i.imgur.com/0zfHTzV.jpg

I'll do some more testing today, Marauder and Warrior exact same gear, but I don't think that Marauder can make up from the gear issue that I pointed out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZDamned

Heavy Allagan Stats with the Battleaxe. (Best case scenario for Marauder)

---

The largest contributor to a DPS difference is going to be the +10 strength from the job crystal. The difference with Allagan vs. AF+1 mix is pretty negligible. You're not losing much on the +ACC -- you will need circa +140 for T5 anyway, and there are options for every slot without +ACC in them. So yeah, the only place you're really losing out on stat points is the additional parry over mix-and-match. Everything else has valuable points in valuable places.

//EDIT: Also, you're HUGELY overestimating the value of secondary stats, which are an order of magnitude weaker than primary stats.

Can we get some parses from the Paladin side here? I've been hearing from a lot of people that the difference is only 5%, but I think the disparity is a lot bigger than that.

Its bigger than 5%, I'll put up parses later tonight of equiv gear WAR vs PLD for both shield and sword oath/defiance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stormx

Its bigger than 5%, I'll put up parses later tonight of equiv gear WAR vs PLD for both shield and sword oath/defiance.

---

Interested to see your results. Since PLD can only zerg for ~ 200 seconds I like doing comparisons in that range between War and Pld.

My results so far have been with both classes in Relic with full DPS Darklight (402 STR)

PLD Shield Oath 130 DPS VS WAR Defiance 190 DPS. (200 Seconds) So I would say it's closer to 50% difference.

In longer durations (it took me 10 minutes to bottom out on TP with War) the difference is closer to 150%, as without TP the PLD loses a lot of ground.

Forgot about the maint tonight, I'll put up parses early tomorrow. Sorry bout that

So, after testing until both ran out of TP. I had Marauder clocking in at 184 DPS, and then I equipped the Warrior crystal, so identical gear. After running out of TP again, I had 180 DPS. Blood for Blood and Raging Strikes are not good for DPS sustainable, just for quick bursts, such as the Titan Heart. 10 Strength makes for a lot of damage when you consider theese results.

I would like to see the base strength you have during each test, as well as which weapon before I could consider those results, as they seem way off. Also, the warrior job crystal provides 20 strength, not 10.

Edit: I am wrong, it does in fact give 10. I am baffled, I swore for sure that it gave 20. Did they change that recently, can anyone confirm? So strange I wouldve bet my first born on it being 20.

The results are in! Nothing surprising though.

Every parse was done with the same exact gear. Full Darklight + Fending accessories or, full Darklight + maim/strike accessories.

PLD, +1 Curtana, 30 vit allocation, shield oath, full on tank mode:
http://i.imgur.com/BgzrEti.jpg

PLD, +1 Curtana, 30 str allocation, sword oath, full on deeps mode:
http://i.imgur.com/Vy5r8sn.jpg

War, NO +1 Bravura, 30 vit allocation, defiance, full on tank mode:
http://i.imgur.com/HFwq6W5.jpg

War, NO +1 Bravura, 30 str allocation, NO defiance, full on deeps mode:
http://i.imgur.com/pObWP2L.jpg

Heres the fun part.

MRD, GARUDA AXE (ROLFZ BOW DOWN TO YOUR OVERLORD), 30 str allocation, full on deeps mode:
http://i.imgur.com/mW6jWb3.jpg

Final analysis: +1 Means A LOT, drastic dps difference. Consider that when looking at the above results. A +1 Curtana vs a NO +1 Bravura hardly makes it a fair test, but it is all I had to work with. In my previous testing, I have seen anywhere between 30 to 50% DPS differences between the two classes with the same gear. War does MOAR dmg in any given scenario. DPS gear, sword oath vs defiance, aoe, any situation the results will be the same, WAR will win, there isn't much of an argument.

With that said, MRD is more than viable of performing up to level of main spec DPS classes. If any WARS out there have gotten lucky off of Twin yet, hit me up. I would love to get parses from you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stormx

Final analysis: +1 Means A LOT, drastic dps difference.

---

Actually, that +2 weapon damage and +3 strength means 3-4% DPS increase (depending on how much STR you start with). It's not nearly as large as you think.

If you assume a 3% difference, WAR has a comparative 19.2% advantage in your test. Now, go back to my first post on these forums (math was already done from beta forums), and I predicted an 18% advantage for WAR in tank mode. I also predicted the negligible difference between non-tank DPS; your test would show a roughly 2% advantage for WAR after accounting for weapon difference, which is certainly negligible. It's far from perfect (I can point out a half-dozen things which have since been shown to function differently than I had assumed), but in the end, you ended up about where I expected 3 months ago.

And yes, I whiffed a good amount on my enmity estimates because the tank stance modifier was lowered from 2x in phase 3 to 1.5x in release. What looked like a 2:1 lead lost a lot of steam. Oops.

//EDIT: The design reason that WAR has higher tank DPS is two-fold. First, part of that DPS is beholden to a non-DPS rotation. Enmity demands will suggest SE->BB->BB rotation, which reduces the advantage due to losing SE bonus. You also will have trouble fitting Fracture into a tanking rotation, and you aren't going to drop Inner Beast, your burst mitigation ability, on cooldown. These all cut into your practical tanking DPS. Additionally, PLD also benefits from Storm's Eye, which means what when both are on the same target, the advantage all but completely evaporates. This will be especially important when we get a second job for MRD which is a DPS job.

Fracture uptime isn't difficult during tanking rotation, as well as in my test, inner beast wasn't dropped on CD. It was used at the end of berserk. And hate early on is manageable by SE > BB > BB, but a minute or so into the fight, hate stabilizes and requires less over BB which in turn is more SE uptime. Also, my main point for contributing to this thread was to show PLD DPS is considerably lower than WAR and that the DPS job for MRD, potentially, is MRD. (With correct gear)

Edit: And unless for some reason Storms Eye accounts for 18% dmg difference, I don't see how the difference evaporates. I would need more elaboration on that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stormx

Fracture uptime isn't difficult during tanking rotation... And hate early on is manageable by SE > BB > BB, but a minute or so into the fight, hate stabilizes and requires less over BB which in turn is more SE uptime.

---

After a 30s offset, sure. However, if you aren't starting your rotation with 2 BB combos, you're risking getting hate ripped from you by a BLM or DRG. Asking them to slow down would be unwise; your own DPS gain isn't nearly going to account for what they lose. After getting an enmity lead, you can move to SE. Consider, though, that this is a 20s period where you've got no buffs up. Your long-term DPS advantage over PLD is around 20%, and your buffs are 33%. In that lead-in, period you're actually losing the DPS battle with PLD -- you have to take some time to catch up. It's a long and complex relationship between the two in terms of DPS.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stormx

Edit: And unless for some reason Storms Eye accounts for 18% dmg difference, I don't see how the difference evaporates. I would need more elaboration on that.

---

18% is noticeable. 6% is not. This is especially true with what I noted above; it will take some time for a WAR to catch up if Storm's Eye is available to both. The 6-7% advantage is contingent upon a 20% buff that is offset by 20s. Let's assume 7% just as an example. That puts you behind by 2.167 DPS-seconds before getting Maim up. That takes 31 additional seconds to catch up, meaning you're 51 seconds into the fight before WAR catches up to PLD in damage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stormx

Also, my main point for contributing to this thread was to show PLD DPS is considerably lower than WAR and that the DPS job for MRD, potentially, is MRD. (With correct gear)

---

MRD DPS is just decent. It's not quite up to snuff with dedicated DPS jobs, but not too far behind. This isn't news. We'll eventually get a DPS job for MRD because the class is designed for it. Compare MRD to LNC and you can see that MRD is 90% of the way there already. If it weren't for the enmity bonuses, it would be the WAR who would seem the alternative use. Foresight sucks and is cross-class (every melee DPS has a token cross-class defensive cooldown), Bloodbath scales the wrong way and is cross-class, Mercy Stroke is a total DPS ability masquerading as tank (a-la Life Surge) and is also cross-class, and Thrill of Battle returns HP on a long cooldown. WAR's design is made on the level 35 weaponskill. It's a one-trick pony of a job, hijacking damage abilities for mitigation via Inner Beast. If you took off the enmity and asked me what the class was for, I'd say it's an HP-limited DPS, like a Dark Knight. The only thing keeping me from proclaiming that MRD will become DRK is the lack of other good options for GLA.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stormx

The results are in! Nothing surprising though.

---

Pretty much what I was expecting. Could you also do one of STR PLD in Shield Oath vs STR WAR in Defiance? Class HP values would also be interesting.