Remove bonus stat points

I'm in the process of unlocking my 5th job and the point allotment system really seems pointless. You just always put it in your main stat and that's it. It's the same as not having it at all really.

Not really. While most people will min-max, it does give you another option on tailoring your character, like giving you Paladin some piety for more mana, or your Black Mage some vitality for more HP.

And you really have to mess with the bonuses when you level Arcanist.

Why do you want to take the tiny bit of stat customization away that they gave us? Its not enough that I have to wear the same armor, and use the same weapon as every other BLM out there.

We are all cookie cutter and I hate it, but glass cannons ruined building a custom char so here we are with a laughable system and you want them to scrap the scraps they gave us in the first place?

No thank you, I have to say I respectfully disagree. I may need to reallocate those bonus points later to sure up a stat.

All people I know will cancel sub if stat point customization is not removed. Also, you could always zoom out camera instead of allocating the points. Worked for me.

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Originally Posted by Ametrine

Not really. While most people will min-max, it does give you another option on tailoring your character, like giving you Paladin some piety for more mana, or your Black Mage some vitality for more HP.

And you really have to mess with the bonuses when you level Arcanist.

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I doubt any paladin is putting points for more mana. The black mage vitality is a big maybe if they are under gearing content, but even then I don't think most are doing that. Arcanist isn't that complicated either. You do all int if summoner, all mind as scholor or do half and half if you play both. If they let us put points into the secondary stats like crit and accuracy, then maybe it would have more of a point.

What they need to do is give you more with caps so you have to choose to put them somewhere else. I would say they need to give you 3 times as many with no more than 30% in any given main stat and up to 40% in a sub stat.

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Originally Posted by BlackShroudMercs

Why do you want to take the tiny bit of stat customization away that they gave us? Its not enough that I have to wear the same armor, and use the same weapon as every other BLM out there.

We are all cookie cutter and I hate it, but glass cannons ruined building a custom char so here we are with a laughable system and you want them to scrap the scraps they gave us in the first place?

No thank you, I have to say I respectfully disagree. I may need to reallocate those bonus points later to sure up a stat.

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All classes from 90% of mmo are all cookie cutter. Only Rift, Dark Age of Camelot, Star Wars Galaxies and a few others would let you have a unique character.

The system has no point at all. And I can't imagine it having without a reworking of the equipment tiering system or allowing to build you own classes with the cross-classes abilities sytem. As long as its a matter of only having the most iLvl on your character, and that classes will have only one way to play, point allocation won't matter much.

And frankly, I don't see the tiering system vanishing in a realistic way or the class system to become personalized.

So basically, they should remove it until they decide te rework some of the game fundamentals at least comparable with what they did with ARR. Maybe with an expansion.

Two classes I have seen use it, and to me that is enough to keep it around. Warrior and arcanist. Warrior because everyone has a different taste when it comes to strength or vitality, people still debate back and forth in the tank forums. Arcanist because of the dual jobs, which if SE gives to all classes makes it worth it to tailor to what job you plan on using. Not to mention that clicking a few times really isn't a big hassle to me and most players.

Side note: As a paladin I plan on changing some stat points to hit the next block percent tier, so that is another use.

PS: Pikken is trolling in case anyone couldn't tell. And don't lie I know some out there fell for it.

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Originally Posted by Seidaku

What they need to do is give you more with caps so you have to choose to put them somewhere else. I would say they need to give you 3 times as many with no more than 30% in any given main stat and up to 40% in a sub stat.

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This would be more interesting. Dark Age of Camelot did this when you made a character for the first time. You could put 10 points into str, but after that it would take 2 bonus points for the next str increase. Ffxiv would need to get rid of the amount of points needed to get to the next tier of parry etc for this to work though. So instead of just having to reach a tier to go from 20% parry to 21%, they should let us do 20.1% 20.2% and so on.

As an undergeared healer in Turn 5 of Binding Coil I had to respec all my bonus points from MND into VIT in order to survive fireball damage. As I got a new drop here and there, I was able to go back and tweak my point allotment every other week or so to slowly put some points back into MND as my new i90 gear naturally increased my VIT. Once I had enough i90 gear I was able to fully spec back into MND. We also had our OT spec out of VIT and into STR for extra DPS. In fact, our OT has switched back and forth between STR and VIT several times now.

It seems you may only be looking at this from a linear CLASS = JOB perspective. Ask people who play both SMN and SCH how they feel about both job sharing ACN's stat point allotment, and you'll start to see where this will be much more important as more jobs are added in the future.

Now this isn't to say the system is perfect or even terribly innovative, but it fills its intended purpose just fine for now.

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Originally Posted by verily

As an undergeared healer in Turn 5 of Binding Coil I had to respec all my bonus points from MND into VIT in order to survive fireball damage. As I got a new drop here and there, I was able to go back and tweak my point allotment every other week or so to slowly put some points back into MND as my new i90 gear naturally increased my VIT. Once I had enough i90 gear I was able to fully spec back into MND. We also had our OT spec out of VIT and into STR for extra DPS. In fact, our OT has switched back and forth between STR and VIT several times now.

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This is mostly because Crystal Tower was removed and there isn't any ilvl 80 gear. Once it's out in 2.1, this won't matter.

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Originally Posted by Myric

All classes from 90% of mmo are all cookie cutter. Only Rift, Dark Age of Camelot, Star Wars Galaxies and a few others would let you have a unique character.

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So we should promote it in this game too? Let's not make it worse, fight to get more stats customizable, or more points in general so your choices will matter more but don't just say "kill it".

Improve, not remove...

I put all mine into VIT on sch cause the fairy does a bulk of the healing and abilities like lustrate ignore MND.
A healer with 4200+ hp can carry some very bad HM primal DF groups, get shanked twice in a row by WP tonberries and live etc.
Ive watched some JP healers play with 4500+ hp and at first I thought it was kinda dumb to allocate+gear so hard for VIT but its an amazing alternate build with a buffer for when things go super bad or you play in mixed company.

As time goes on and iLevel and stats inflate more, the customizable 30points will be even less of a factor. You do not have to dump the points into your 'primary stat' to function competently at your job.
Racial base stats have a +/- 6 point stat range, you don't see people shouting for only certain race+job combos in this game do you?, chill.

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Originally Posted by Ametrine

Not really. While most people will min-max, it does give you another option on tailoring your character, like giving you Paladin some piety for more mana, or your Black Mage some vitality for more HP.

And you really have to mess with the bonuses when you level Arcanist.

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Bolded part.. Actually you don't.. just dump it all in Int and maybe 2-4 points in vit and you will be fine.

All be it WAR can do VIT or STR or a combo of both and be effective with there self healing abilities.

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Originally Posted by Seidaku

What they need to do is give you more with caps so you have to choose to put them somewhere else. I would say they need to give you 3 times as many with no more than 30% in any given main stat and up to 40% in a sub stat.

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They should do something like this. Or they could do like they did in FFXI with Merit Points and add a cap to each stat.

I'm not a mage job but I find the point system really stupid and a waste. If your a drg/mnk all points to STR, BRD DEX, PLD/WAR VIT. Some WARs use STR, But the VIT is better for their paper thin armor lol.
I would love to add some points into VIT or DEX on my MNK but I can't because it would take away from my DPS.

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Originally Posted by Myric

This is mostly because Crystal Tower was removed and there isn't any ilvl 80 gear. Once it's out in 2.1, this won't matter.

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In beta people said it was pointless and wouldn't matter, and they were wrong. Now you're looking into your crystal ball and assuring me there will be zero reasons to ever change your stat point allotment in 2.1?

Get real.

This isn't a feature that doesn't work. It's simply a feature you've decided you don't like.

Just because you're the one who used it for your main stat doesn't mean everyone can't make good use of it.

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Originally Posted by Sapphires

I put all mine into VIT on sch cause the fairy does a bulk of the healing and abilities like lustrate ignore MND.
A healer with 4200+ hp can carry some very bad HM primal DF groups, get shanked twice in a row by WP tonberries and live etc.
Ive watched some JP healers play with 4500+ hp and at first I thought it was kinda dumb to allocate+gear so hard for VIT but its an amazing alternate build with a buffer for when things go super bad or you play in mixed company.

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Fairy heals scale with MND, you know? Unless you absolutely need more VIT to survive a boss mechanic, there is no reason to put points in anything but MND on SCH. The only ones doing so are the people who think they can be special little snowflakes by putting their points into the wrong stat.

Oh, you want to play SMN, too? Too bad. Switching back and forth between specs is a pain and not really a viable way to play the game. The point allocation system is useless and restricts players.

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Originally Posted by Pikken

All people I know will cancel sub if stat point customization is not removed. Also, you could always zoom out camera instead of allocating the points. Worked for me.

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Why would people cancel their sub over something they see as irrelevant not being removed? What's the big deal? Set your stat points once, and forget about it. It's not even worth the work required to remove it. If such a tiny, miniscule issue makes someone want to quit, then they were already going to quit anyway.

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Originally Posted by Syrellaris

Bolded part.. Actually you don't.. just dump it all in Int and maybe 2-4 points in vit and you will be fine.

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Not recommended if you opt for SCH as your main, which I have.
Cleric Stance, while it swaps your MND and INT stats, does so at the cost of a 20% nerf to your heals, no matter which of the two stats were initially.
So, if you max your INT stat, which rocks for SMN, you'll never perform as well as a SCH as you will SMN (your Fairy's stats will reflect this, too! She's only as strong as you are!).

This is, at the core, why ACN's have extra to consider when allocating their bonus stats. You can pour all into one at the cost of the other, go half and half, or put some stats toward VIT or DEF, which could potentially benefit both.

I'm lead to beleive that as more jobs are added, this will be a consideration for all classes.

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Originally Posted by Frein

The only ones doing so are the people who think they can be special little snowflakes by putting their points into the wrong stat.

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Pretty much this. The only option that stat "customization" gives people, is the option to be wrong.

That said, I'm not against customization in general, it's just that in it's current state there's really only one right way to use your points for most classes. Take BRD for example. Am I going to pick STR? No. INT? No. MND? No. PIE? No. VIT? A select few (very few) situations may call for it, otherwise no. DEX? Yes. So of 6 different options, I have one great one, one maybe, and four no. That's not really customization, is it?

IMO what they should have done is made the points going into your sub stats I.E acc, crit, det, def, speed etc. It would allow people to tweak their character a bit with stats that will always work, even if some choices are better/worse than others, while allowing you to tweak gear sets a bit more for things like accuracy caps and such.

VIT is useful to everyone. In some circumstances a few points of it can make the difference between dying an not. While there is only one way to maximize DPS, that doesn't mean that there isn't any value to allocating any stat points elsewhere.

(also for above poster example on BRD: More PIE means longer song duration, so that's not totally without merit either)

I would like it if it was for sub stats. It's just an illusion of choice and customization as it is now I think.

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Originally Posted by Reiterpallasch

Pretty much this. The only option that stat "customization" gives people, is the option to be wrong.

That said, I'm not against customization in general, it's just that in it's current state there's really only one right way to use your points for most classes. Take BRD for example. Am I going to pick STR? No. INT? No. MND? No. PIE? No. VIT? A select few (very few) situations may call for it, otherwise no. DEX? Yes. So of 6 different options, I have one great one, one maybe, and four no. That's not really customization, is it?

IMO what they should have done is made the points going into your sub stats I.E acc, crit, det, def, speed etc. It would allow people to tweak their character a bit with stats that will always work, even if some choices are better/worse than others, while allowing you to tweak gear sets a bit more for things like accuracy caps and such.

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This a million times.
As the game sits right now it doesn't matter, Your job is going to benefit more from the main stat than anything else. That's the way the game is. If someone wants to argue otherwise then they need to bust out the math numbers to back it up. A MNK/DRG with and without 30 STR put 30 points into DEX and on MNK/DRG and see which has the better DPS. And if someone can prove that mixing stats is better DPS I'll change points today.

The only thing that will fix this is having a cap on stat points like merits in FFXI. That way when we get a level cap we wont have to put the new points into the main stat.

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Originally Posted by Myric

I'm in the process of unlocking my 5th job and the point allotment system really seems pointless. You just always put it in your main stat and that's it. It's the same as not having it at all really.

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Agreed. Just seems like an unecessary distraction.

my WHM can have 5000 HP with this system so I support it to be what it is.

mind your own business, do it the way you think it's the right way for you. no need to take anything away from the others.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

my WHM can have 5000 HP with this system so I support it to be what it is.

mind your own business, do it the way you think it's the right way for you. no need to take anything away from the others.

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It's not that easy to do what you want when most everyone says to do it a certain way. When someone comes WHM and they have 5000HP and they Cure for crap then people will know that you didn't allocate your skill points correctly.

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Originally Posted by Arkista

It's not that easy to do what you want when most everyone says to do it a certain way. When someone comes WHM and they have 5000HP and they Cure for crap then people will know that you didn't allocate your skill points correctly.

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LOL I've never seen anyone ask me why I heal them 100 points less than other healers.

I actually do the same currently for turn 5 coil. Around 4500 hp with all 30 in vit. Its really minimal loss to heal and never had a problem. So my cure heals for 910 instead of 950, big deal.

Turn 5 would fall under that "select few" situations where VIT can actually be beneficial.

It all depends on the situation. Having 5k hp is kinda overkill lol but its nice not having to move and eat Titan stuff. Really good for turn 5.

I like the mix of 20 mind 10 vit

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Originally Posted by Myric

I would like it if it was for sub stats. It's just an illusion of choice and customization as it is now I think.

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really just make it sound like what you really want is more points so you can be even stronger. Honestly this wont make much of a difference..there will still be one stat everyone pumps, most likely it will be VIT.

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Originally Posted by Bladenite81

really just make it sound like what you really want is more points so you can be even stronger. Honestly this wont make much of a difference..there will still be one stat everyone pumps, most likely it will be VIT.

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I don't want the points at all really, I just meant it would make more sense if they were for the sub stats.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

LOL I've never seen anyone ask me why I heal them 100 points less than other healers.

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Seriously?

Hmm...you must not do DFs. Or Coil. Or Chimera. Or Hydra.

the stats have such a minimal effect on anything, that almost every job should use Vitality cuz its the only stat that impacts anything dramatically.

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Originally Posted by XainTheGreat

the stats have such a minimal effect on anything, that almost every job should use Vitality cuz its the only stat that impacts anything dramatically.

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I don't know about that, Would be nice to pump 30 VIT into MNK but won't happen. MNK is STR and I can see the difference every week when I pick up a new ilvl90 piece and its a pretty big boost.

I don't always put points into stats outside of my main one..

but when I do, I put them all into Charisma.

There is no customization in this game.

Given the same content level, and properly leveled subs, everyone has/wants the game gear, has virtually the same bonus stats, and has the same important abilities equipped.

It is very, very flawed.

I realize that glyph and talent merit systems offer little room for individuality but at least they're something. The same is true for lateral gear gear systems. There's usually a best-in-slot template, but there's a little room for customization.

It's pretty absurd that I can see another Paladin's (my main) hp and have a pretty good idea of what gear he's wearing.