Presence of Mind Buff.. ?

I just don't see why this skill is on a 5 minute cool down. It isn't potent enough to warrant a 300 second cool down. It is a handy skill to pop off in a pinch or to shorten other cool downs. (Benediction) Does anyone have any stats for this skill? How much does it decrease cast and recast times? What kind of buffs do you think it needs if any? Shorter recast? Same recast but potency buff?

EDIT: I know what the skill does and its uses. I am just saying for 10 seconds of this fairly useful spell 5 minutes for a cool down isn't warranted.

EDIT2: It ends up being around .4 seconds off each cast. Typically, you get 4 casts in it and you end up saving 1.6 seconds every 5 minutes. So in 10 minutes you get ONE extra cast with this skill. That is pretty close to useless. However, that is not all. Ever notice that it generally takes a second for it to take effect? Yea. We throw that in there and its a whopping .6 seconds every 5 minutes. That brings us to 1 extra cast in about 25 minutes. So in my book it IS useless.

I am now abandoning my position on a simple cooldown recduction. After looking at the numbers, I feel it needs a raw buff to the potency of the extra speed or a much longer duration. Double one of the two and look and see if it becomes OP. (Doubt it) If it somehow does, just shorten it a little.

I actually came on the forums to make this same exact thread just now. I totally agree, Presence of Mind has way too short of a duration to warrant it's 300 cooldown. I hardly ever use it. It's so short, that I've popped it before, just before I had to move out of a couple rings, and the duration was gone by the time I could cast again.

I was thinking that they should make this ability as a toggle ability, it quickens cast times, but it completely halts MP regeneration. Or something along those lines.

Its actually a pretty good cooldown. Your cure I will drop from 2 secs to about 1.5 which when your are trying to keep up two tanks or need to squeeze in a heal to a dps or yourself during high tank damage phases is pretty awesome. stacked with divine seal it can be a great way to recover if you get behind. I wouldn't mind seeing the duration stretched a bit further because of the 5 min cd (maybe 15 secs to match with divine seal) but its super useful both when your are working on hard content and for when you are stance dancing to get in some extra deeps.

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Originally Posted by SeraphS

I actually came on the forums to make this same exact thread just now. I totally agree, Presence of Mind has way too short of a duration to warrant it's 300 cooldown. I hardly ever use it. It's so short, that I've popped it before, just before I had to move out of a couple rings, and the duration was gone by the time I could cast again.

I was thinking that they should make this ability as a toggle ability, it quickens cast times, but it completely halts MP regeneration. Or something along those lines.

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I think it already does halt MP regeneration. Which in 10 seconds you only miss like 3 regens so its only around 180 MP you are missing.

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Originally Posted by Pharazon

Its actually a pretty good cooldown. Your cure I will drop from 2 secs to about 1.5 which when your are trying to keep up two tanks or need to squeeze in a heal to a dps or yourself during high tank damage phases is pretty awesome. stacked with divine seal it can be a great way to recover if you get behind. I wouldn't mind seeing the duration stretched a bit further because of the 5 min cd (maybe 15 secs to match with divine seal) but its super useful both when your are working on hard content and for when you are stance dancing to get in some extra deeps.

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I actually think it should go the other direction. Same duration, but with 3 minute cool down vs. 5 minute. I personally use it more as a cool down haste. When speed running with a tank that doesn't wait for a stoneskin + eye for an eye, I like to just let him get down as low as possible and pop Benediction. Then I follow with Presence of Mind to quicken its recast time. (Actually quite noticeable) I just don't see how having the most potent heal in the game on the same cool down timer as a simple 10 second minor cast/recast speed buff is sensible. Oie lol.

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Originally Posted by Pharazon

Its actually a pretty good cooldown. Your cure I will drop from 2 secs to about 1.5 which when your are trying to keep up two tanks or need to squeeze in a heal to a dps or yourself during high tank damage phases is pretty awesome. stacked with divine seal it can be a great way to recover if you get behind. I wouldn't mind seeing the duration stretched a bit further because of the 5 min cd (maybe 15 secs to match with divine seal) but its super useful both when your are working on hard content and for when you are stance dancing to get in some extra deeps.

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You say it's a good cooldown, then you talk nothing about why the cooldown is sufficient, you just talk about the application of the ability itself. I'm pretty sure the OP knows the uses of the ability, but his question is how does it justify the duration and the limited effect it has.

While I agree it isn't a great skill, by no means does it "need" a buff.

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Originally Posted by Garnatian

While I agree it isn't a great skill, by no means does it "need" a buff.

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Maybe buff is bad word choice. I just think it needs a shorter cool down.

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Originally Posted by SeraphS

You say it's a good cooldown, then you talk nothing about why the cooldown is sufficient, you just talk about the application of the ability itself. I'm pretty sure the OP knows the uses of the ability, but his question is how does it justify the duration and the limited effect it has.

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Actually part of my answer was in response the OP asking about cast time reduction and the other part was not as clear as I intended. I was merely pointing to the fact that based on the usage I described that I felt the cooldown was good. If the cooldown was reduced by a minute or two or the duration was increased by 50% I think it would MORE warrant the 5 minute cd but its not terrible as is, just a bit underwhelming for the 5 mins.

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Originally Posted by Pharazon

Actually part of my answer was in response the OP asking about cast time reduction and the other part was not as clear as I intended. I was merely pointing to the fact that based on the usage I described that I felt the cooldown was good. If the cooldown was reduced by a minute or two or the duration was increased by 50% I think it would MORE warrant the 5 minute cd but its not terrible as is, just a bit underwhelming for the 5 mins.

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My entire point. It is quite underwhelming. It isn't game breaking, but if they want this move to not fall under the same status as "1 Ilm Punch" then they need to do something. As it stands now, when I get my Swiftcast (I know I should have it already) Presence of Mind will be losing its spot. It just isn't worth it for 10 seconds ever 5 minutes. :/

Benediction isn't affected by Presence of Mind since it isn't affected by Spell Speed...

That said it would be nice if the recast time wasn't so high.

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Originally Posted by OrganizationXIll

My entire point. It is quite underwhelming. It isn't game breaking, but if they want this move to not fall under the same status as "1 Ilm Punch" then they need to do something. As it stands now, when I get my Swiftcast (I know I should have it already) Presence of Mind will be losing its spot. It just isn't worth it for 10 seconds ever 5 minutes. :/

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While it may not feel like its worth the 5 minute cooldown I don't think swift cast is going to replace a move that is off the global cooldown and has a 10s duration. Even though its still a 5 minute CD its still super useful at times, like during phase 6 of Turn 4 when dreadnaughts and adds are beating on both your tanks you will be glad for it.

It would be nice if it were a bit stronger especially for the time it takes to cooldown but not using it is a mistake.

I find it pretty useful at times, but not as a 'oh crap!' button like Benediction, but rather 'things are looking sour, time to pick things up' sort of button.

yeah maybe SE will hear the WHM cries, and buff the ability

3mins would be ideal imo. I use it a lot for my holy spams in wp sr.

Presence of Mind and Swiftcast serve two completely different purposes.

Swiftcast does not actually help you recover if you are struggling because you still have to wait for GCD after the heal. It's mainly for insta raise, insta holy, and times where you do not have time to precast something. Swiftcast is more for utility.
Presence of Mind on the other hand, increases your HPS dramatically. If you fall behind, this cooldown very easily brings you back up to a comfortable situation, also allowing you to reapply regen easily after a sticky situation putting you in tip-top shape. PoM is more of a HPS CD/holy spamminator CD.

If you are seriously considering not putting Presence of Mind on your bars (for no real reason as you have room for both swiftcast and PoM), you are either inexperienced or you are really really foolish.
That being said, I believe the CD of PoM should be 3-3.5 minutes. It's kind of silly to look at Benediction, then look at PoM, and see that they both have the same CD. But hey, WHM's actually have it extremely good when it comes to advanced job skills. Atleast we don't have Freeze. :)

IMHO This skill needs one of the following:
Smaller cooldown
Longer duration
MORE faster spell speed. Yes, MORE.

I rarely ever use this ability, in fact the only time I really do use it with a technical purpose is during titan heart phase for stone II spam and to help break the first person out. This is the only "planned" purpose. Usually if a situation suddenly turns for the worst, the last thing on my mind is going to be this ability. A precious moment to decide to use the ability and the point after having used it could be the difference between a wipe anyways. That moment could have been spent just starting a party saving AOE heal, benediction, or whatever.

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Originally Posted by Mycow8me

IMHO This skill needs one of the following:
Smaller cooldown
Longer duration
MORE faster spell speed. Yes, MORE.

I rarely ever use this ability, in fact the only time I really do use it with a technical purpose is during titan heart phase for stone II spam and to help break the first person out. This is the only "planned" purpose. Usually if a situation suddenly turns for the worst, the last thing on my mind is going to be this ability. A precious moment to decide to use the ability and the point after having used it could be the difference between a wipe anyways. That moment could have been spent just starting a party saving AOE heal, benediction, or whatever.

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Use Presence of Mind as a detterant before an incoming influx attacks.

For example when Titan begins stomping all too dramatically at quite a few intervals, pop that and you may just get off 3 or 4 Medica's.


Although, as someone who does use this skill when I can (specifically before I think things will go bad), I think it could do with a longer duration or shorter cooldown.
Not so much the quicker spell speed since we already have enough mana problems, I'd rather not use Presence of Mind and watch 4000 MP go down to 3000 in just 10 seconds with Cure I alone lol.

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Originally Posted by Estellios

Benediction isn't affected by Presence of Mind since it isn't affected by Spell Speed...

That said it would be nice if the recast time wasn't so high.

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Actually it does. Spell Speed determines your cast AND recast times. I believe it makes the 300 second into a ~285 second timer. (Level 50 with my current gear) if we could use it twice that would be fantastic.

My whole point is that if you are a competent healer you wont need to recover until you get into the coils. AKA Presence of Mind is pretty useless for the average healer until endgame due to the outrageous cool down for the minor gain. If they simply reduced the cool down it wouldn't become overpowered, just more frequently used.

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Originally Posted by OrganizationXIll

My whole point is that if you are a competent healer you wont need to recover until you get into the coils.

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Maybe if everyone else was an NPC and acted in only one manner. In the real world, you have tanks and dps with differing levels of gear, ability, reaction time and attention who may need a little extra healing from time to time. Going in to any situation with the mindset of "I'm so good that I don't need my toolbox, just this hammer" means everything looks like a nail.

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Originally Posted by Lecan

Maybe if everyone else was an NPC and acted in only one manner. In the real world, you have tanks and dps with differing levels of gear, ability, reaction time and attention who may need a little extra healing from time to time. Going in to any situation with the mindset of "I'm so good that I don't need my toolbox, just this hammer" means everything looks like a nail.

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If I added "much" after recover, would it help? jk xD But seriously. In most cases, the the entire party isn't horrible. Maybe one person, but the current difficulty of the pre 50 dungeons doesn't really require it. Just a Cure II a couple of times dancing between targets and you are just fine. I have not needed Presence of Mind once and I DF Dungeon-ed my way to 50 because I can't stand FATES and I am close to friendless. If you do need it at some point, you will probably need it again in the next 5 minutes and you wont have it because of the 300 second cool down. :/

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Originally Posted by OrganizationXIll

Actually it does. Spell Speed determines your cast AND recast times. I believe it makes the 300 second into a ~285 second timer. (Level 50 with my current gear) if we could use it twice that would be fantastic.

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No it doesn't. Not only is Benediction considered an Ability and not a spell (even on the tooltip), it is off the GCD which is what spell speed's "recast time" is referring to. Also, if spell speed affected it, Benediction would have a recast time shorter than 5 minutes as it would be affected by gear/stats and reflect this in the ability tooltip.

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Originally Posted by Estellios

No it doesn't. Not only is Benediction considered an Ability and not a spell (even on the tooltip), it is off the GCD which is what spell speed's "recast time" is referring to. Also, if spell speed affected it, Benediction would have a recast time shorter than 5 minutes as it would be affected by gear/stats and reflect this in the ability tooltip.

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It does have a recast time shorter than 5 minutes. However as how Spell Speed its self sucks pretty bad so it isn't that noticeable. I think people have worked out that 10 points of Skill speed takes .1 seconds your recast time. So my original math was off. :P 400 Spell speed takes off 4 seconds. So 3 ticks of PoM in 10 seconds gives you ~12 seconds off.

Also, it is a spell. It says RECAST time of 300 seconds on the tool tip. The cast time part of Spell Speed doesn't affect it due to the insta-cast part of it, but the recast does. I just tested my above math on Divine Seal and it cooled down in 49 seconds for me. Considering I have 399 Spell Speed it fits almost perfectly.

I use it all the time as a dps buff. Demon wall and Titan come to mind. Pop Presence of Mind and start your DPS rotation.

For healing I occasionally use it if a large group gets pulled and the tank is starting to dip and I'm not bringing them up fast enough. I've use it in turn 4 of coil for healing.

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Originally Posted by OrganizationXIll

Stuff

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You're either drunk, mistaken or lying. I've at least yet to see Divine Seal, Swiftcast, Virus etc. cool down faster with increased spell speed.

And pray tell, why would the game be so inconsistent about it anyway? You can see your current cast times and the global cooldown affected by Spell Speed (whether your Presence of Mind is active or not) by hovering over a tooltip, yet at the same time the game is incapable of showing the modified cooldown on everything else? Why would that be so?

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Originally Posted by Raminax

You're either drunk, mistaken or lying. I've at least yet to see Divine Seal, Swiftcast, Virus etc. cool down faster with increased spell speed.

And pray tell, why would the game be so inconsistent about it anyway? You can see your current cast times and the global cooldown affected by Spell Speed (whether your Presence of Mind is active or not) by hovering over a tooltip, yet at the same time the game is incapable of showing the modified cooldown on everything else? Why would that be so?

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Have you tried it? Try it. Then come back. I used it with Divine Seal because that was the shortest cool down we have. Why don't they have a cool down timer for them at all? Why isn't there a GCD timer? Why does the sky appear blue? Why do we age? Why is shirt singular while pants are plural? This is fun. ^_^

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Originally Posted by OrganizationXIll

Have you tried it? Try it. Then come back. I used it with Divine Seal because that was the shortest cool down we have. Why don't they have a cool down timer for them at all? Why isn't there a GCD timer? Why does the sky appear blue? Why do we age? Why is shirt singular while pants are plural? This is fun. ^_^

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I just went and tried this. For the record when you cast a spell and its cooling down the time until it can be used again is displayed in the tooltip over top of the icon. Casting PoM and then Divine seal, Benediction etc. does not result in lower cooldown times. This is due to the fact that they are not spells but are actually "Abilities" as defined in their tooltips.

Yeah, I was trying the same thing before writing the post, hence why I was very skeptical. Not that I wasn't skeptical to begin with, but I'll happily be proven wrong. :p

Oh, the results? No cooldown reductions whatsoever with Presence of Mind active. Divine Seal was still 60 seconds, Swiftcast was still 60 seconds, Surecast was still 30 seconds, all of them cast with Presence of Mind active. Doubt I need further testing. :p

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Originally Posted by OrganizationXIll

My whole point is that if you are a competent healer you wont need to recover until you get into the coils. AKA Presence of Mind is pretty useless for the average healer until endgame due to the outrageous cool down for the minor gain. If they simply reduced the cool down it wouldn't become overpowered, just more frequently used.

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I could live without Regen in "everything but coil", does that make it a stupid spell? No. Hell, by this reasoning, Divine Seal is useless for the average healer too because "you won't need to recover until you get into the coils".
PoM is used to recover, but its also used to deliver more nukes if you have nothing better to do, making it a dual-capability skill.
Also, go run WP speedruns. Presence of Mind is extremely good for holy spam, and WP speedruns are a fantastic place where PoM can show its true benefits outside of coil due to the high damage the tank is absorbing.

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Originally Posted by Pharazon

I just went and tried this. For the record when you cast a spell and its cooling down the time until it can be used again is displayed in the tooltip over top of the icon. Casting PoM and then Divine seal, Benediction etc. does not result in lower cooldown times. This is due to the fact that they are not spells but are actually "Abilities" as defined in their tooltips.

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Originally Posted by Raminax

Yeah, I was trying the same thing before writing the post, hence why I was very skeptical. Not that I wasn't skeptical to begin with, but I'll happily be proven wrong. :p

Oh, the results? No cooldown reductions whatsoever with Presence of Mind active. Divine Seal was still 60 seconds, Swiftcast was still 60 seconds, Surecast was still 30 seconds, all of them cast with Presence of Mind active. Doubt I need further testing. :p

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Originally Posted by Slark

I could live without Regen in "everything but coil", does that make it a stupid spell? No. Hell, by this reasoning, Divine Seal is useless for the average healer too because "you won't need to recover until you get into the coils".
PoM is used to recover, but its also used to deliver more nukes if you have nothing better to do, making it a dual-capability skill.
Also, go run WP speedruns. Presence of Mind is extremely good for holy spam, and WP speedruns are a fantastic place where PoM can show its true benefits outside of coil due to the high damage the tank is absorbing.

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ANYWAY.

My point is that you get 10 seconds of slightly increased spell speed every 5 MINUTES. It needs to be shorter. I do not think the duration needs to be increased, but the length we do get is being severely gated due to the 5 minute recast time. Your "oh shit" button is supposed to be Benediction. This skill should be a "I need to Stoneskin everyone quick" or "these mobs aren't dying quick enough" or "OMG dodge that AoE. Cure I everyone quickly." kind of button. As it stands now, you are using it as an artificial Benediciton. If you do use it, you might not have it later when you need to recover. What is so wrong with a 3 minute recast? It would get more widely used because people will be less afraid to use it. They know they will have it back soon and are more likely to throw it out.

I think it's ridiculous because it turns out it's better to just use swiftcast once a minute.

A level 26 cross-class ability is better than the one you get for your job. Smooth, Square.

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Originally Posted by Denji

I think it's ridiculous because it turns out it's better to just use swiftcast once a minute.

A level 26 cross-class ability is better than the one you get for your job. Smooth, Square.

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I imagine it's because of the dps potential. WHM damage is amazing with this buff up.

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Originally Posted by Denji

I think it's ridiculous because it turns out it's better to just use swiftcast once a minute.

A level 26 cross-class ability is better than the one you get for your job. Smooth, Square.

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I was unaware that you can only use Swiftcast OR PoM, not both. Swiftcast is great for Holy, Raise, Medica 2, Limit Break, and casting on the move. PoM is good for any situation where you A) can stand still, and B) need more throughput.

I'd love a shorter CD on it, but it's one of the best throughput abilities we have for both damage and healing, so I can see why they might not want to. It REALLY sucks to pop it and then move though, as the duration is pretty short.

I agree with OP. I rarely use it because the duration is so short, you will be able to only cast 2-3 spells while active. I don't think I would use it more with a 3 mins cooldown. It's not a buff this skill needs, it's a complete rework to make it worth taking a slot in the 5 White Mage skills.

Completely agree with some of what has been said. I never even bother to use it for three main reasons.

#1: Casting it , itself takes up a slot on the global cooldown.
#2: Once cast, it only lasts 2-3 spells.
#3: On top of this, it doesn't even make THAT much of a difference, leveling up I didn't notice it at all. Now I just barely do notice a difference (like maybe .3 or .4 off spell speed). I find Surecast (cast without interruption) much more useful than Presence of Mind

I simply don't find it useful at all to cast at the moment.

If the duration were increased on this spell , then I would probably add it to my rotation.. either way I don't pretend to be a balance expert... I just know the spell right now .. in my opinion simply stinks. And when it comes down to being between Swiftcast and PoM? It's a no brainer, use swiftcast and run to the bank laughing all the way.

I for one think it is overpowered if used for certain purposes. Swift a holy then Presence a holy spam after that lol. Great for trash and speed runs or the Blob in WP.

Also Swift a raise then Presence to get them healed and Protect/Stoneskin back on them while still maintaining a good set of heals on the tank.

Updated Original Post.