So this idea may sound sort of off at first but please read with an open mind. Both Blue Mage and Beastmaster have had access to whips in more than one game. As both have to deal with monsters (one using them, one using their abilities) I feel they complement each other well. I'm aware that having 2 DPS jobs coming out of a DPS class isn't ideal and I advocate a 1 class 2 role lifestyle but I feel it would be difficult to create a pet based tank (just look at how much everyone hates Titan-egi) or a blue magic tank/healer based on the monsters we have currently. That said I do believe I've struck a balance where both classes play differently enough that it makes up for it. Will edit in Lore soon please bear with me.
KEY:
(A) = ability off GCD, (S) = skill on GCD
Concept: Flayer (FLA) was inspired by the Morpher in FFTA. The "- Soul" abilities are toggle abilities that have a different purpose for the FLA/BLU and the BST. They can start learning Blue Magic at level 8 but are limited to only being able to learn 1 spell from each of the available families. Their attacks focus on getting in more hits in a shorter amount of time. Their combos are: Lash > Flame Lash (attack > attack with DoT), Lash > Constrict > Slaying Tail (attack > paralyzing attack > chance to reset FL DoT) and technically Quick Lash > Expiacion (attack that bestows double attack buff > twofold attack that requires and consumes double attack buff). They have buffs that increase their STR, Critical Hit Rate and the damage of their party members.Quote:
Flayer: They use whips for their weapon and are from Limsa Lominsa. Whips are a melee weapon with a maximum distance of 12y.
Abilities and Attacks:
1: Lash: (S) Delivers an attack with a potency of 100. TP Cost: 70.
2: Killer Instinct: (A) Increases STR by 15% (15s). Recast: 90s.
4: Quick Lash: (S) Delivers an attack with a potency of 90. Add.Effect: Double attack (8s). Recast: 25s. TP Cost: 130.
6: Flame Lash: (S) Delivers an attack with a potency of 100. Combo Action: Lash. Combo Potency: 120. Combo Bonus: Applies 20 potency fire damage over time (18s). TP Cost: 80.
8: Beastkin Soul: (S) FLA/BLU: Allows the setting and use of a Beastkin ability. Combo Action: Seedkin Soul. Combo Bonus: Grants 1 stack of Azure Soul (10s). BST: Allows the calling of a Beastkin pet. Cast time: 1s.
10: Achilles Lash: (A) Delivers an attack with a potency of 100. Add.Effect: Stun (2s). Recast: 45s. TP Cost: 150.
12: Wavekin Soul: (S) FLA/BLU: Allows the setting and use of a Wavekin ability. Combo Action: Beastkin Soul. Combo Bonus: Grants 1 stack of Azure Soul (10s). BST: Allows the calling of an Wavekin pet. Cast time: 1s.
15: Pheromone: (A) Increases the critical hit rate of user and pet by 10% (15s). Recast: 90s.
18: Vilekin Soul: (S) FLA/BLU: Allows the setting and use of a Vilekin ability. Combo Action: Wavekin Soul. Combo Bonus: Grants 1 stack of Azure Soul (10s). BST: Allows the calling of a Vilekin pet. Cast time: 1s.
22: Constrict: (A) Delivers an attack with a potency of 110. Combo Action: Lash. Combo Potency: 180. Combo Bonus: Paralyzes target (10s). TP Cost: 70.
26: Scalekin Soul: (S) FLA/BLU: Allows the setting and use of a Scalekin ability. Combo Action: Vilekin Soul. Combo Bonus: Grants 1 stack of Azure Soul (10s). BST: Allows the calling of a Scalekin pet. Cast time: 1s.
30: Grappling Whip: (A) Rush to your target's side (player or monster). Recast: 180s.
34: Cloudkin Soul: (S) FLA/BLU: Allows the setting and use of a Cloudkin ability. Combo Action: Scalekin Soul. Combo Bonus: Grants 1 stack of Azure Soul (10s). BST: Allows the calling of an Cloudkin pet. Cast time: 1s.
38: Slaying Tail: (S) Delivers an attack with a potency of 120. Combo Action: Constrict. Combo Potency: 190. Combo Bonus: 5% chance to reset targets Flame Lash duration. TP Cost: 90
42: Seedkin Soul: (S) FLA/BLU: Allows the setting and use of a Seedkin ability. Combo Action: Cloudkin Soul. Combo Bonus: Grants 1 stack of Azure Soul (10s). BST: Allows the calling of a Seedkin pet. Cast time: 1s.
46: Expiacion: (S) Delivers a two-hit attack with a potency of 120 each (one or both hits can miss). Quick Lash must be active. Consumes Quick Lash on use. TP Cost: 180.
50: Howl: (A) Braces nearby party members and their pets for their next attack. Each members' next action will be 5% stronger. Recast: 240s
"-kin Soul" Combo's and Azure Soul:
When the BLU or FLA utilizes a "-kin Soul" ability they will initiate a special combo. For each "-kin Soul" combo they string together they will gain 1 stack of Azure Soul. Each stack of Azure Soul gives a 2% bonus to critical hit rate. Azure Soul caps at 5 stacks and its duration cannot be renewed once capped even if stacks are consumed. Until this point each stack will renew its duration. Spoken and Voidsent abilities are quite a bit more powerful and will consume stacks of Azure Soul.
Traits:
8:Learning: FLA/BLU: Allows the chance to learn Blue Magic. Physical weaponskills will restore MP equal to half their cost in TP. BST: When you land a critical hit there's a 5% chance your pet will receive a 10% damage increase (8s).
14: Enhanced Strength: Increases Strength by 2.
16: Enhanced Strength II: Increases Strength by 4.
20: Enhanced Killer Instinct: Killer Instinct now also increases INT by 15%.
24: Enhanced Achilles Lash: Reduces recast time to 30s.
28: Enhanced Strength III: Increases Strength by 6.
32: Enhanced Killer Instinct II: Reduces recast time to 60s.
36: Deadly Pheromone: Reduces Pheromone recast to 60 seconds.
40: Burning Lash: Flame Lash's damage over time duration extended to 20 seconds.
44: Flame Tail: Increases Slaying Tail's chance to reset Flame Lash's damage over time to 15%.
48: Unbridled Learning: FLA/BLU: Increases the chance of learning blue magic. Physical weaponskills will restore MP equal to their cost in TP. BST: When you land a critical hit there's a 10% chance your pet will receive a 10% damage increase (8s).
The In-Game Taxonomy:
This is strictly for reference. Not all monsters listed will have learnable spells or acquirable pets.
Ashkin - fomor, ghost, wight
Beastkin - adamantois, aldgoat, antelope, boar, buffalo, chimera, coeurl, mole, opo-opo, rodent, sheep, wolf
Cloudkin - apkallu, bat, cockatrice, colibri, death gaze, dodo, hippogryph, vulture
Forgekin - biotechnological weapon, death claw, defender, facer, magitek, mirrorknight, statue, vanguard
Scalekin - aevis, croc, dragon, dragonfly, drake, eft, goryncych, hydra, peiste, puk, raptor, serpent, wyrm, wyvern
Seedkin - cactuar, funguar, goobbue, landtrap, mandragora, morbol, ochu, sapling, treant
Soulkin - coblyn, dullahan, elemental, spriggan
Spoken - amalj'aa, humanoids, giant, goblin, ixal, kobold, mamool ja, moogle, qiqirn, sahagin, siren, sylp, tonberry
Vilekin - antling, beetle, chigoe, diremite, firefly, giant hornet, mantis, sandworm, swarm, yarzon
Voidsent - ahriman, ascian, bomb, cyclops, demon, flan, gargoyle, gnat, golem, imp, ogre, ooze, plasmoid, snurble, soulflayer, succubus, taurus, vodoriga, wisp
Wavekin - angler, clam, crab, gigantoad, jellyfish, megalocrab, pugil, slug, uragnite
Concept: The Blue Mage (BLU) is essentially a more focused FLA. They get the ability to learn 2 more spells per monster species as opposed to FLA's one. They also see the addition of Spoken and Voidsent spells. Spoken is special in that it includes the beastmen tribes so I felt it important to include each of them, requiring an additional ability to set one more with such a large number (Spoken Soul II). They can only equip 1 spell per slot for a grand total of 9 Blue Magic spells set at any time. The types of spells they can equip vary from status effects, AoE damage (physical and magical), single target damage (physical and magical), and buffs. They'll find themselves using their weaponskills less often than their magic spells for more higher damage output but with moderate MP costs their MP will dwindle eventually. When their MP gets low they can continue to deal damage with their weaponskills while their MP replenishes. This is in a similar fashion to THM/BLM using the Fire and Blizzard line of spells. The BLU can also use Azure Lore to swap their naturally higher STR and lower INT values to make better use of magical Blue Magic attacks should they prefer them. The damage output should be about the same (I haven't mathed them all out yet) just in different ways, with magic attacks focusing more on DoT and status effects.Quote:
Blue Mage: Similar to Flayers the Blue Mage can use the "- Soul" abilities they can unleash an attack they've learned from a monster. Theycan set abilities that the Flayer doesn't have access to, giving them a wide array of spells to pick and choose from for a given situation but they are limited in how many they can equip at a time.
Abilities:
30: Azure Lore: (A) While active the users INT and STR values will be swapped. Ends upon re-use.
35: Spoken Soul: (S) Allows the setting and use of a Spoken ability. Requires and consumes 2 stacks of Azure Soul.
40: Voidsent Soul: (S) Allows the setting and use of a Voidsent ability. Requires and consumes 3 stacks of Azure Soul.
45: Diffusion: (A) Allows next enhancing Blue Magic spell to affect others in a small radius. Potency will be reduced by 1% per person affected. Recast: 180s.
50: Spoken Soul II: (S) Allows the setting and use of a Spoken II ability. Requires and consumes 4 stacks of Azure Soul.
ARC:
Raging Strikes
Quelling Strikes
Hawk's Eye
PGL
Featherfoot
Internal Release
Second Wind
Blue Magic:
Blue Magic is set in a similar fashion to how "Additional Skills" are set and additional slots are unlocked upon learning the appropriate "Soul" ability. Only one ability per classification may be set in one of these slots at a time. For example: You get Flayer to level 8 and learn Beastkin Soul. You open your skill menu and see a new tab called "Blue Magic" which now has 1 empty square at the bottom and all the Blue Magic listed above but they're greyed out until you learn them. Since Flayer can only use Clamor for Beastkin they will not be allowed to learn Tortoise Stomp or Charged Whisker. The Blue Mage quests will not only allow some of these moves to be learned in their instanced fights but will also entail traveling to areas where the enemies are present.
Beastkin:
Clamor: Demoralize target reducing healing effectiveness (20s). Recast: 60s. MP Cost: 128. Buffalo family.
Tortoise Stomp: Delivers blunt damage with a potency of 110 within an area of effect. Recast: 2.5s. MP Cost: 218. Adamantoise family. (BLU only)
Charged Whisker: Deals lightning damage with a potency of 110 within an area of effect . Add.Effect: Paralyze (10s). Recast: 2.5s. MP Cost: 248 Coeurl family. (BLU only)
Wavekin:
Gnaw: Delivers a piercing attack with a potency of 150. Recast: 2.5s. MP Cost: 183. Angler family.
Bubble Shower: Deals water damage with a potency of 120 within an area of effect. Recast: 2.5s. MP Cost: 213. Megalocrab family. (BLU only)
Irritating Tendtrils: Deals lightning damage with a potency of 140. Add.Effect: stun (2s). Recast: 30s. MP Cost: 103. Jellyfish family. (BLU only)
Vilekin:
Blood Drain: Delivers an attack with a potency of 120 and heals yourself for an equal amount. Recast: 60s. MP Cost: 159. Chigoe family.
Sand Cyclone: Deals earth damage with a potency of 60. Add.Effect. Earth damage over time with a potency of 30 (18s). Cast time: 2s. Recast: 2.5s. MP Cost: 289. Sandworm family. (BLU only)
Deadly Thrust: Delivers a piercing attack with a potency of 160. Recast: 2.5s. MP Cost: 209. Diremite family. (BLU only)
Scalekin:
Body Slam: Delivers blunt damage with a potency of 110 to all enemies in a cone in front of you. Recast: 2.5s. MP Cost: 206. Peiste family.
Smouldering Scales: Bestows a Blazespikes effect on user (30s). Cast time: 1s. Recast: 90s. MP Cost: 276. Drake family. (BLU only)
Bog Bomb: Deals earth damage with a potency of 110 within an area of effect. Recast: 2.5s. MP Cost: 236. Eft family. (BLU only)[/B]
Cloudkin:
Rancid Belch: Deals water damage with a potency of 160 Add.Effect: Slow (20s). Recast: 2.5s. MP Cost: 224. Dodo family.
Poison Breath: Poisons targets in a frontal cone with a potency of 40 (18s). Recast: 30s. MP Cost: 214 Cockatrice family. (BLU only)
Loop: Delivers a slashing attack with a potency of 170. Recast: 2.5s. MP Cost: 244. Colibri family. (BLU only)
Seedkin:
Stolon: Delivers a ranged attack with a potency of 140 (25y). Recast: 2.5s. MP Cost: 312. Sapling family.
Swift Sough: Deals wind damage with a potency of 100. Add.Effect: 12y Knockback and wind damage over time with a potency of 20 (15s). Recast: 30s. MP Cost: 242. Landtrap family. (BLU only)
Acid Mist: Poisons the air, delivering damage with a potency of 30 to targets that enter the mist (30s). Recast: 2.5s MP Cost: 202 Ochu family. (BLU only)
Spoken:
Footwork: Increases speed of attacks by 20% (20s). Recast: 120s. MP Cost: 200. Amalj'aa family. (BLU only)
Swift Gust: Increases evasion by 20% (20s). Recast: 120s. MP Cost: 200. Ixal family. (BLU only)
Titan's Boon: Increases defense by 20% (20s). Recast: 120s. MP Cost: 200. Kobold family. (BLU only)
Voidsent:
Golden Tongue: Increases magic damage dealt by 15% (15s). Recast: 120s. MP Cost 200. Flan family. (BLU only)
Thunderstrike: Deals lightning damage with a potency of 170 to all enemies in a cone in front of you. Recast: 30s. 317. Gnat family. (BLU only)
Mow: Delivers a slashing attack with a potency of 170 to all enemies in a cone in front of you. Recast: 30s. MP Cost: 317. Taurus family. (BLU only)
Spoken II:
Bomb Toss: Deals fire damage with a potency of 220 within an area of effect . Recast: 30s. MP Cost: 350 Goblin family. (BLU only)
Spinning Kick: Delivers blunt damage with a potency of 220 to all enemies in a cone in front of you. Recast: 30s. MP Cost: 350. Mamool Ja family. (BLU only)
Lacerate: Delivers a slashing attack with a potency of 120. Add.Effect: Damage over time with a potency of 40 (12s). Recast: 30s. MP Cost: 350. Sahagin family. (BLU only)
Faze: Stuns enemies within a frontal cone (2s). Recast: 30s. MP Cost: 350. Qiqirn family. (BLU only)
Spell Set Examples/Ideas:
Physical:
1. Tortoise Stomp
2. Gnaw
3. Deadly Thrust
4. Body Slam
5. Loop
6. Stolon
7. Footwork
8. Mow
9. Lacerate
Magical:
1. Charged Whisker
2. Irritating Tendrils
3. Sand Cyclone
4. Bog Bomb
5. Rancid Belch
6. Acid Mist
7. Footwork
8. Golden Tongue
9. Bomb Toss
Mix/Aoe:
1. Charged Whisker
2. Bubble Shower
3. Blood Drain
4. Bog Bomb
5. Poison Breath
6. Acid Mist
7. Swift Gust/Titan's Boon
8. Thunderstrike/Mow
9. Bomb Toss/Spinning Kick/Faze
Solo:
1. Clamor/Charged Whisker
2. Gnaw/Irritating Tendrils
3. Blood Drain
4. Smouldering Scales
5. Rancid Belch
6. Swift Sough
7. Swift Gust/Titan's Boon
8. Golden Tongue/Thunderstrike/Mow
9. Lacerate
The potencies I've listed for Blue Magic are mostly just an example right now and I'm still tweaking them while seeing how they'd play it in various combinations. I based much of their damage and MP costs (which reflect that of a level 50) in relation to DRG/MNK attacks under the assumption that a BLU would have round 2.5k-2.7k MP without modifications. Potencies and buff increases are likely different than what they are when the monsters use them and some spells I've had to alter slightly but it shouldn't be much trouble to implement. One example was changing the Ochu's Acid Mist to be more like Burning Arrow. They could likely just change the palette in this case.
Concept: The Beastmaster (BST) was originally going to be able to tame pets for future use and the pets be able to be used for different roles but if you read through the first page here you'll see that it sounds a lot better on paper than it would actually perform in game. Due to this I had to fall back on an earlier idea where pets are learned through a sub-quest in the BST storyline. They're a relatively safe class to play since the odds of them getting hate are extremely low with the ability to essentially drop to the bottom of the hate list.Quote:
Beastmaster: While the Flayer uses the abilities learned from monsters, the Beastmaster learns to control the monsters themselves.
Abilities:
30: Reward: (A) Heals pet with a potency of 200 Add.Effect: Regen with a potency of 50 (15s). Recast: 45sec
35: Primal Rend: (S) Delivers an attack with a potency of 120. Combo Action: Expiacion. Combo Potency: 260. Combo Bonus: Enmity generated from attack is placed on your pet. TP Cost: 60.
40: Snarl: (A) Transfers own enmity and buffs to your pet. Recast: 90s.
45: Onslaught: (S) Delivers an attack with a potency of 150. Combo Action: Flame Lash. Combo Potency:240. Combo Bonus: 20% chance to increase pets attack speed by 15% for 10s. TP Cost: 50.
50: Familiar: (A) Reduces incoming damage and increases damage dealt by pet by 40% for 30s. Recast: 240s.
MRD:
Skullsunder
Fracture
Foresight
Bloodbath
LNC:
Invigorate
Feint
Keen Flurry
Pets:
Pets are obtained via job quests. The level 30, 40 and 50 quests will each reward their respective ability as well as giving access two 2 pets each via a taming side-quest. Once obtained, the appropriate "- Soul" ability will now summon the corresponding pet instead of cast the Flayer's learned spell. The BST's pets each have their own specialty in battle but are primarily there to shield the BST from taking damage. If necessary their pets can also function as an emergency tank using the BST abilities to transfer enmity to their pet. The use of these abilities are primarily for solo use otherwise.
Their pets:
Level 30 Side-Quest Rewards:
Beastkin: Wolf (single target DPS)
Wavekin: Crab (highest defense)
Level 40 Side-Quest Rewards:
Scalekin: Raptor (Conal DPS)
Vilekin: Firefly (Ranged magical DPS)
Level 50 Side-Quest Rewards:
Seedkin: Funguar (area of effect and DoT DPS)
Cloudkin: Vulture (Ranged physical DPS)
When summoned to battle, their level will be equal to yours. As you level up they will gain the use of more abilities for their species and their coloring will change to match that of the common form for that level.
As an example: A BST level sync'd to around level 10 will call out their Wolf pet and it will look like an ordinary Pack Jackal but when they are level 45 it will look like a Snow Wolf.
While on the surface it looks like they lose 6 Blue Magic Flayer abilities this isn't entirely the case. They forgo the use of monster abilities to call a monster into battle. The pets chosen were due to their variety of abilities and availability for expansion; each has a minimum of 3 attacks (which could be expanded upon), while the rest already have 4. So, in "losing" 6 abilities they gain pets which boost their overall damage output. Their job ability attacks were also included into combo's so they should be kept busy enough with their own attacks and managing their pets that they won't even notice the hard loss of 2 abilities (soft loss of 6).
Their pets also have low cast times so while the pet skill slots will share recast timers the BST will be able to switch out their pets with ease as the situation demands. What this means is if one pet uses their skill in slot 1 (such as a wolves paralyzing attack) and the BST changes to another pet, that new pets skill slot 1 (such as a funguar's AoE poison) will still be on cooldown. A good example of this mechanic would be the Garuda fight. At the start of the fight you'd benefit from fighting with the wolf, firefly or vulture. As the fight goes on and she starts summoning adds you may be better off switching to the funguar or raptor. When you begin to move her around the outside it would likely be best to switch back to the wolf, firefly or vulture depending on your strategy. Another example is speed running dungeons using AoE pets on the way to bosses and single damage pets once there.
Flayer: Beastmaster and Blue Mage Proposal
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11-05-2013, 08:44 AMMartaDemireuxFlayer: Beastmaster and Blue Mage Proposal
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11-05-2013, 09:31 AMGamemako7 pet types. Really now. Your class has almost no abilities and carries a pointless and obnoxious need for hunting up random types of mobs in the field once per level. You've collected:Quote:
Originally Posted by MartaDemireux
- Massive design time need, huge balance issues with 50+ pets
- Redundancy out the wazoo
- Generally HORRIBLY boring character to play due to utter lack of player involvement. You have 5 weaponskills, two of which are debuffs.
- Hassles player to run off and "tame" mobs -- I'm assuming you aren't claiming permadeath to those mobs, which would be a hilarious mess
- Fails to account for the fact that not all mobs have level-appropriate versions
And that's not even touching the pet stockroom issues, with the large number of opponents you'd have to collect and index (at least 7 classes of pets). -
11-05-2013, 09:57 AMMartaDemireux1. There could be as few as 7 pets. I only listed all those monsters to give an idea of the types for those unfamiliar. They could make it so you can only store 1 pet per type.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamemako
2. How so?
3. For BST they have 7 attacks (5 FLA, 2 BST). All of which have their own uses. Since pets have their own abilities too I went lighter on the weaponskills so you can focus on your pet more. Looks less boring to me than a BLM spamming fire and then a blizzard... For BLU every Soul is correlated to their equipped ability so they have 16 potential attacks/buffs/debuffs/heals (12 FLA, 4 BLU).
4. It's a one time taming system. To counter the issue I think you're mentioning: when a monster gets tamed it could register as being killed so it can respawn even though have a copy as a pet.
5. Your pet syncs to your level just like ACN and your companion. When you call it out it is equal to your level. I did make sure there would be at least 1 monster to be able to tame per type.
You could think of it as FFXI's jug pets. Not every type of monster was accounted for with jug pets and you had to craft most of them. Tame allows you to "Charm" like in FFXI if you are in an area and plan on staying there. It also then lets you recall out that monster as a pet in the same manner that you could use a Jug Pet for an instance (like BST needed jug pets to do Abyssea/Dynamis). But the type of pet that can be saved could be reserved just for Coeurls or Marmots for Beast Soul as an example. It could also be likened to the Venomancer of Perfect World. -
11-05-2013, 02:52 PMNaharaWhy so many stat boosts and to so many unrelated things (and why is Enhanced Killer Instinct II a %-based boost instead of a flat one, like the other stat boosts)?Quote:
Originally Posted by MartaDemireux
Right now, stat boosts are only given at level 8, 14, and 24, and only in the base class's (in this case, the Flayer) core stat. Even if one of the associated jobs has different stat requirements, the stats given via the class traits don't change. The arcanist's traits still boost INT, even though the scholar needs MND. And speaking of stats, what stat DOES the Flayer, Beastmaster, and Blue Mage need? Why does it need STR, VIT, DEX, INT, and MND?
All three seem like DD, so we can rule out and remove VIT, since that stat bonus is given only to tank jobs right now. Is the whip a true ranged weapon (meaning DEX) or just a melee weapon that can be used at a longer range than other melee weapons (meaning STR)? Blue Mage seems more like a caster, though, so should it just focus on INT? Why does it need MND unless it's going to be a healer?
This is just my observation, but classes and jobs right now are pretty much single-attribute dependent. There's pretty much just one stat that their bonus attribute points and the stat budgets on all their gear is focused towards. This makes picking and choosing gear and assigning the bonus attribute points simple decision without much room for confusion. Melee DDs focus on STR, tanks on VIT, ranged DDs on DEX, casters on INT, healers on MND, and then Piety just kinda there to be helpful for healers. I would recommend thinking about what you think each class should do and rework the stat bonuses from there. Remember, if a second job to a class doesn't use the same stats as the base class, the soul crystal can provide bonus stats to make up the difference (like with the SCH crystal providing a very large boost to MND). -
11-05-2013, 04:42 PMMartaDemireuxEnhanced Killer Instinct is an enhancement to the Killer Instinct ability. It's intended to be a reverse of Virus. However I'm currently adjusting much of the class and jobs. As I found an actual Taxonomy within the game and a site that is updating monsters and their abilities I've had to re-imagine a few things. Originally BLU was going to be able to off-heal if needed. That was why there was the inclusion of MND in their Killer Instinct. However now that I'm made aware that no monsters know healing moves like White Wind (yet) I've had to change BLU to just DPS. The DEX was in case certain spells would have a modifier for it but again it doesn't appear that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nahara
Not all classes learn their stat abilities at those levels. ACN as an example learns them at 14, 16 and 32 and MRD at 8, 16 and 24. My reasoning for giving 4 of them is because BST isn't going to be the powerful one in its pet combo (the SMN is 75% of its DMG IIRC so I wanted BST's pet this time to be the one doing 75% DMG) so it gets 2 traits towards a stat increase instead of 3. STR is the primary stat for whips. VIT is there to give the BST some extra HP when having to tame their pets in case of a failed attempt and to give them some more survivability if they draw hate before they use Snarl. But I can see how having those 2 VIT traits could be confusing.
Through BLU's spells they can either focus on dealing magic damage or physical damage and that's why their stat traits vary depending on which types of spells they wish to set. My goal was to have them at roughly equal STR and INT. The more spells set with a certain stat would give 2 traits of a stat with the 2nd highest giving 2 traits of the other stat. -
11-05-2013, 07:22 PMGamemakoThat's an absolutely insane number to begin with. What roles will they have? Healer, tank, rDPS, mDPS, buffer, debuffer... and what? You've got to have some serious role overlap, not to mention the absolute mess of balance you've created by having so many roles crammed into one class, then the need to balance at least 7 different pets with ~5 abilities each. Then you have 2 of each type, so it's back to 70 abilities for one class's pets, plus another dozen for its own abilities. You've got serious redundancy, massive development time, huge balance issues, and then you add this:Quote:
Originally Posted by MartaDemireux
This just doesn't work. In a game designed around movement mechanics, a class designed with 75% of its output out of its own hands is a disaster. What a hot mess Titan would be when your Coeurl gets blasted off the cliff and you lose 95% of your DPS while you resummon. SMN, by virtue of being DoT-heavy, doesn't completely choke when pet gets DoT'd and melts or gets thrown off a ledge. Your design has no such safeguards. Imagine being a PS3 players and attempting to wrestle with the likes of Malboro/Morbols or Terataur -- unplayable doesn't begin to describe it.Quote:
Originally Posted by MartaDemireux
As I just explained, that just doesn't work in practice. Worse, GLA is dull enough with 7 weaponskills (RoH+RB+SL+SB+SS), and it is at least a tank which puts its attention toward battle management.Quote:
Originally Posted by MartaDemireux
Then why bother? If it syncs to player level and is resurrected on death, you're asking players to use an ability 7 times in the entire game and call it a day. This is a waste of a slot and a waste of a mechanic.Quote:
Originally Posted by MartaDemireux
Your design does not work in ARR and just doesn't have proper design considerations behind it. You need to define roles to your class, jobs and pets and explain how those roles will be fulfilled. Your Beastmaster passes enmity to your pet, but the Beastmaster is never going to take aggro due to being gimped in damage output in the first place. It doesn't make any sense at all to even include the abilities. Your Blue Mage loses a pet that is a large portion of its damage output, and replaces it with nothing at all -- the potency on abilities is still pathetic. Lash -> Flame Lash is 270 unbuffable potency (assuming your Flame Lash at 9s, since ticks are at 3s intervals -- it has to be 9s or 12s, not 10s), or 135 per GCD. MRD, by contrast, puts up an effective 275.56 potency per GCD after accounting for Maim and Storm's Eye, plus has a superior damage self-buff. You'd be outdamaged by tanks if you attempted melee, so you're absolutely stuck with spellcasting for damage, and I'm not seeing the abilities for that. -
11-06-2013, 01:33 AMTyvek
Make it so 1 type pet can be stored take beastkin for instance, you have admantoise, buffalo, sheep, and wolf. You have to pick which type you wanted to store and when that 1 dies guess what? Go out and find a new 1 to store. This way the ability stays useful and you would be able to choose your arsenal of 7 pets to use but they are all disposable.
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11-06-2013, 02:31 AMKitruWhy does it have to be an ability at all? Just make it part of the job quests. The first 2-3 of your class quests are taming various monsters and the quest reward that you get is a summon spell. You don't *have* to have an ability in game just because it's part of the loadout of a job in other FFs, especially if that ability is really just there to allow you to actually use the job's abilities. Plus, this would have the advantage of being simpler to implement while also getting rid of the insanity of having a squirrel dealing as much damage as a wolf or the annoyance that bringing a goobbue would present unless it was drastically resized.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamemako
Of course, if both Beastmaster and Blue Mage are going to be DPS and so much of what makes a job is based upon the class itself, they're both going to play almost exactly the same. SCH and SMN manage to play differently because they're completely different roles though, when you're DPSing as a SCH, you're pretty much identical to a SMN. If you've got multiple jobs based off of the same class, they really should have different roles because, otherwise, you're going to have 2 jobs with almost identical playstyle and ability lists that even end up doing the exact same thing.
As to the Blue Mage ability list itself, I highly doubt that they'll provide a single class with a second set of additionals that ends up being larger than the entire additional list of every other class in game or even their own ability list (you've got 29 Blue Mage abilities; classes bring 17-20), especially when you only want to allow 3 to be used. A much more likely implementation of Blue Mage (if it ever gets implemented, which I doubt for various other reasons) would be to have there be a total of 5 Blue Mage abilities that you "learn" as part of the job quests: it would keep the list small so that it's easy to balance and implement without getting completely insane. It would also allow them to bring in iconic abilities, like White Wind, that aren't used by any enemies in game. The list would probably be something like Aqua Breath (AoE Water damage cone), White Wind (AoE HoT and cleanse on a long CD, like 180 sec), Earthquake (AoE Earth damage with stun), Flamethrower (ST Fire damage), and Self-Destruct (reduces current hp to 1, massive damage AoE). You could even explain the limited list by saying something like Blue Magic can only be learned from exposure to primal energies so that you get Flamethrower first, by revisiting Ifrit's domain; Earthquake second, by revisiting Titan's domain; Aqua Breath third, by visiting Leviathan's domain in La Noscea; White Wind fourth, by visiting Garuda's domain; and then Self-Destruct last as a kind of secret technique learned by combining the energy of all of those primals. -
11-06-2013, 03:11 AMGamemakoEvery single Titan party ever would immediately kick all such players. Actually, any sensible part would do so. Pets die in dungeons. Hell, wipes happen. With a setup like that, any screwup means the character is permanently gimped for the remainder of the dungeon. I wouldn't want a player like that in my party. Getting tagged by certain-doom Bad Breath or something would mean you'd have to spend time and gil running all over the godsdamned place trying to recapture lost pets.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyvek
Reminds me of Shale in DA:O, who got an entire joke backstory related to the developers needing to downsize the model to fit through doors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitru
Er, I don't think his Blue Mage has the pet anymore. It dumps the pet in favor of magic attacks in the summon slots. They really wouldn't play the same in this case because his Flayer has no useful melee abilities (absolutely pathetic damage output), meaning Blue Mage would have to get nearly all damage and utility from magic slots.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitru
Not to mention the number of pet abilities. This class and job would require about 60 pet abilities and 29 spells, plus the other 18 abilities. That's four times the development work of another class and an absolute balance nightmare.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitru
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11-06-2013, 04:03 AMMartaDemireux
Hmm well first off thanks for the feedback everyone (though some of it came off like "no you're stupid and so is your idea" ...but que sera, sera). I honestly didn't think it'd raise such a stink to have an ability lose most/all usefulness by 50 (just look at Transpose and Haymaker). I can see where the concern arises though. I was originally going to make Learning a trait, making FLA/BLU the general course with BST being the 2nd getting its pets through quests. But, adding in the classic Tame/Charm/Capture concept to BST seemed like a good idea and a viable toggle for Learning/BLU. Now that I see how that could be difficult I'll revert to my original plan.
On pets and Titan: In my experience (only have had a SCH in party not a SMN so can't say for them) the pets aren't able to be knocked off. They just get knocked to the edge.
For the concern of only setting 3 Blue Magics: The "Soul" abilities from FLA would be toggled for BLU to use one of their abilities so BLU gets a total of 9 setable spells at their discretion (whether they prefer to be doing physical damage, magical damage and what buffs they think will be important for them (which also dictates if their traits are STR, INT or PIE)). Additionally, I took the moves directly from the existing monsters and their movelists so animations and stats are likely already set up. I say this because moves such as Bog Bomb I've noticed always doing comparable damage to a level appropriate class (~15-20% off my HP from an eft in the 30s to my character in the 30's and same deal when my 10's is hit by a 10's eft) which would mean they have a set potency and then is dependent on the monster's stats. They'll likely just have to alter their potency a little to match character growth and of course add in cast times but that's not as bad as building from scratch.
Gamemako is right in my thinking with their usage. FLA attacks on their own were designed to be lower so the pet could shine more so when BLU was unlocked they'd be using their Blue Magic primarily to deal higher damage. I was planning on adding strong combo-damage for some spells as well. Such as Lash -> STR based spell would see the spell getting more damage.
As far as pet "classes" I hadn't really planned for any of them to follow a specific pattern other than what they play in the wild as it is. For the most part I chose the pets based on monsters that already have a minimum of 3 skills they use (some species don't have complete data online yet though). But I could give them specifications I suppose.
But now I see I have some tweaking to do. So please check back later. For clarification: I'm going to be changing it so FLA is more of a rookie BLU than a rookie BST adding Learning as a trait and removing the taming system. Will be removing 1 pet for each classification and making it so access to the pets is given through quests and having only 1 pet for each classification. -
11-06-2013, 01:13 PMMartaDemireux
Made substantial changes to the OP.
FLA:
Changed from rookie BST to rookie BLU
Can learn 1 Blue Magic for each monster tpe
Removed tame/learn ability
Raised overal DPS and gave them a mechanic for double attacks to compensate for a weaker pet than envisioned on BST
Changed combos
BLU:
Clarified Blue Magic is still the go-to for DPS
With increased FLA DPS, BLU MP costs can be raised to create a system where they burn through their MP to DPS with Blue Magic to then use TP attacks while MP refreshes similar to how a THM/BLM works.
BST:
Only get 6 pets now each with their own specialty in battle (one for each monster type) that they obtain through quests
Increased overall DPS
Added combos to keep them busy
Still working on some lore but with the recent changes they will be starting in Limsa Lominsa. -
11-06-2013, 03:52 PMKitruThe job abilities would have to *be* the pet summons and there would be all kinds of crap associated with having a class that goes from dealing all of its own damage, roughly equal to the other DPS classes, suddenly shifting a majority of its performance onto a pet. SMN and SCH are explicitly *designed* around having a pet to provide a healthy portion of their total damage: Ruin has a laughable potency of only 80 and that ends up being what a SMN spends most of its GCDs casting, since it's not like they have much reason to reapply their DoTs before they come up. The "loss" of the 6 attacks is completely negligible to the damage dealt, given the fact that they're not the foundation of the class; you're just having them lose a few mediocre utility powers. Plus, you're telling one job that it only gets 11 abilities, which is just handicapping the playstyle.Quote:
Originally Posted by MartaDemireux
The only way you're going to get a class that "trades up" from a non-pet class to a pet class is if the *entire* previous DPS structure is revisited and rebalanced around the pet doing said damage: all of those attacks would need a separate potency for FLA/BLU and BST. The opposite is true in the same way: if you're getting rid of your pet, you better be getting some big buffs to make up for it.
You've still got all of the problems with your Blue Mage suffering from stat schizophrenia. You're claiming that they would be using magical and physical attacks, but they're only going to have the stats for one or the other (likely physical since, you know, it's a DoW class). It doesn't help that you're trying to blend in PIE and MND as well. Mechanically, you should just stick with a single stat. If you *really* want to have alternating Blue Magic and physical damage phases, just use an explicit mechanic that enforces it rather than trying to bend reality to accommodate stat schizophrenia: just have a stance called "Blue Magic" or something that swaps your STR for INT. Of course, you'd need to have some kind of mp regeneration mechanism for the physical side of things since you don't really regen mp that quickly without something external. -
11-06-2013, 05:00 PMMartaDemireuxWell not entirely true on the BST part. In losing the 6 attack abilities they're in turn getting 3-4 more per pet that they can micromanage. I think that evens it out. The reason I have the pets toggling with the Blue Magic is because I don't want the BST to have access to it. I still want the BST to be able to use those abilities to in turn call out their pets when needed. The BST is able to call out a different pet relatively quickly as the situation demands with the way I have it (1 second as opposed to an ACN/SMN/SCH's 6 seconds). For instance you could start the fight using a Funguar for their AoE Poison and then switch it out immediately after to a Raptor for the conal breath attacks. Maybe I should put in the OP their known abilities thus far for clarification. I also wanted to make sure that no skill went unused like was brought to my attention with Tame before.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitru
With BST's job abilities I wanted to make sure they could still hold their own in battle while boosting their pets as needed. With such negative feedback on FLA damage potential I increased weaponskill damage but perhaps I went too high. I tried to base it on a GLA's damage so they'd still be weak in comparison to current DPS classes unless the BST had it's pet or the BLU had their extra magic.
I do really like the stance idea. I wanted to have the traits be that way as sort of a throwback to XI's traits being built by the spells the BLU set. But honestly wasn't thinking much on the gear stats. I did intend for them to be on a melee armor so I can see the issues in gimping themselves. I'll change Azure Lore to a stat swapper.
I haven't added in potencies yet for the Blue Magic but I'm intending (like I put in the OP) for them to be stronger than the weaponskills, including the spells available to FLA. But as I said I think I must have gone a little bit too high on the FLA WS damage potential so I will lower it a bit so that way BST can shine better with their WS's and pet swapping and BLU can shine better with their magic.
I actually was thinking on a way to give an MP refresh to weaponskills but I got distracted. I went over to change up my DRK idea to include a stance mechanic (had been thinking on that since you tore into me about it being too similar to GLA :P) and then saw your BRS being from PGL on the last page and got inspired to alter mine. I'll go back to thinking on a refresh mechanic now though...
Edit: Have edited the traits Learning and Unbridled Learning. In addition to what its old function they now make weaponskills replenish the BLU's MP equal to half the TP cost and equal to the TP cost respectively. Since they had no use for BST I made them also function to give a 5% and 10% chance respectively to increase your pets damage by 10% for 8s when you land a critical hit. -
11-09-2013, 01:13 AMMartaDemireux
Changes to OP:
Added in Blue Magic spell potencies and MP costs. These are tentative and based on the BLU having around 2.5k-2.7k mp. I judged the potency and cost of single target physical spells on MNK/DRG weaponskills, AoE's on BRD weaponskills and single target magic attacks on WHM nukes (for a ratio, increased potency in relation). This way they should be relatively balanced.
As incentive to not spam one or two attacks I've added in a new Blue Magic combo system and Azure Soul mechanic. When they use "-kin Soul" abilities in combos they gain stacks of Azure Soul. Each stack of Azure Soul raises their critical hit rate by 2% and will renew its duration until it reaches its cap at 5 stacks when the duration will be locked and will count down to 0. The job-specific abilities Spoken Soul, Voidsent Soul and Spoken Soul II each consume Azure Soul stacks since they are quite a bit stronger. The other option was to add in longer recast times on all attacks but that seemed like it would be less fun to play than this mechanic. So now while you can indeed spam one attack, you'll benefit more from not doing so.
Also owered the potency on Flayer weaponskills since their primary use is to facilitate BLU MP refresh and to open BST's stronger combo's that enhance their pet. I also added in my general concepts of each job and the class. Lore still on the way, haven't had much time to think up scenarios other than being from LL. -
12-08-2013, 07:21 PMSakamoto-San
Very interesting I hope they add BLU to this game, I will literally live on that job 23/7 and SCH 1/7(maybe) lol. I can see it being done even more than before. It's very possible especially since Yoshi has expressed interest in adding it in. *droooool*
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12-10-2013, 01:55 PMMartaDemireuxOh he has? Do you have a link to where he said it, would love to read it. I'm happy you find my idea interesting; I know it's very out of the box haha. I've enjoyed playing BLU in every installment it's appeared in and would love to see it here. Maybe not exactly in my own way because I loved white wind in the past but I built mine around what is currently available.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sakamoto-San
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02-20-2014, 07:08 PMDuelle
I got bored while waiting for maintenance, so here's a flayer and beastmaster concept I put together.
Flayer
Concept: DPS that relies on continuous attacks to deal damage.
Weapons: Bullwhip. Chain whip.
Abilities
01 Swipe - Delivers an attack with a potency of 120.
02 Snap - Delivers an attack with a potency of 100. Combo => Swipe: 150 potency.
04 Nourish - Regenerate 8% of your max HP over 12 seconds.
06 Crack - Reduces damage dealt to you by target by 10% for 10 seconds. 60 second cooldown.
08 Flog - Delivers an attack with a potency of 80. 160 when delivered from behind target.
10 Brandish - Delivers an attack with a potency of 100 to all enemies within 3 yalms.
12 Takedown - Stuns target for 3 seconds. 40 second cooldown.
15 Boomerang - Delivers an attack with a potency of 130. 15 yalm range.
18 Lacerate - Delivers an attack with a potency of 80. Combo => Flog: Increases damage target receives from your attacks by 10% for 20 seconds.
22 Wide Sweeps - Your single-target attacks deal 50% of their damage but strike two additional targets. 12 second duration. 1 minute cooldown.
26 Sidewinder - Delivers an attack with a potency of 100. Combo => Snap: 250 potency.
30 Lariat - Channeled ability. Completely immobilize target for 6 seconds. Effect ends if you move or perform any actions. 45 second cooldown.
34 Redirect - Reduces damage taken by 10% for 15 seconds. 2 minute cooldown.
38 Nine tails - Delivers an attack with a potency of 100 in a cone before you. Combo => Flog: 150 potency.
42 Barbed Flail - Delivers an attack with a potency of 100. Places a damage over time effect with a potency of 30 for 21 seconds.
46 Recklessness - Increases damage dealt by 20% for 20 seconds. Reduces attack speed by 15% for 5 seconds after effect fades. 90 second cooldown.
50 Punisher - Delivers an attack with a potency of 100. Combo => Lacerate: 180 potency. Doubles the potency of your next Swipe or Flog.
Traits
08 Enhanced Strength (Flayer)
14 Enhanced Nourish - Nourish now regenerates 12% of your max HP over 15 seconds.
16 Enhanced Vitality (Flayer)
20 Momentum - Increases your attack speed by 4%.
24 Enhanced Vitality II (Flayer)
28 Enhanced Takedown - Reduces the cooldown of Takedown to 20 seconds.
32 Deep Lacerations - Lacerate now increases damage target receives from your attacks by 15%.
36 Enhanced Crack - Reduces the cooldown of Crack to 40 seconds.
40 Momentum II - Increases your attack speed by an additional 4%.
44 Constrictor - Lariat deals damage over time (20 potency) for every second it is active on target.
48 Enhanced Redirect - Redirect now reduces damage taken by 15%.
Achievements
Whip it good! I-V - Achieve flayer level 10-50
Notes:
- As always, potencies, durations and cooldowns are negotiable.
- Flayer is a melee DPS that has slightly better options for AoE compared to a PGL or LNC. Granted I have a feeling Wide Sweeps, Brandish and Nine Tails are in need of a boost.
- Lariat is a channeled CC. The player can't do anything while keeping the target in place, as it would break the channel and prematurely end the effect. I was also thinking of having bosses be held in place by Lariat but being able to auto attack and cast spells.
- Nourish, Crack and Redirect are self-preservation tools, as they are nowhere near as potent as what a tank would have available to them. At most it would allow a healer to get to them but may also help in AoE situations (Nourish and Redirect). Crack is inspired by Demoralizing Shout but single target.
- Momentum is key to use of the whip, and while an alternative to the two traits that I have suggested would be to implement Momentum as a system similar to greased lightning, it might have complicated things too much. By this token, Recklessness works the way it does because I feel the damage increase for flayer should have some sort of downside. Conceptwise the flayer would need to slow down to regain control of their whip (I originally wanted to have the flayer damage themselves a bit per attack while Recklessness was up).
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Beastmaster
Concept: Tank that establishes bonds with beasts, sharing damage and boons with their companion.
Mechanics: Equipping the BST crystal adds the "Increased Enmity" effect to Snap, Sidewinder, and Brandish. Flog's baseline potency is increased to 110 and no longer needs to be used behind the target to combo to Lacerate or Nine Tails (you still need to be behind the target for it to have 160 potency).
The core mechanic of BST is "Lifelink", a buff the splits damage the BST takes with their pet that is active whenever the BST and their pet are within 5 yalms of each other. While Lifelink is active, the BST deals 30% less damage but gains an enmity boost. The damage split would be 80-20 between master and pet. AoE moves and damage auras ignore the pet. Lifelink also heals the pet for 20% of the heal received by the master when Lifelink is active. Buffs like Protect and Stoneskin will affect the pet when used on the master and vice versa.
Pets: BST can have up to five pets bonded to them, allowing the BST to summon one beast as a pet using Call Beast. Upon unlocking the job, BST can Tame and bond to one beast (can be beastkin, cloudkin, scalekin, wavekin and vilekin), and more pet slots will unlock as the BST completes job quests. Upon being successfully tamed, pet level becomes normalized to match the master's level. Unlike SMN pets or companion chocobo, BST pets can only auto attack and must be ordered to perform specific moves though Tenacity/Savagery/Cunning.
Suggested pets
Beastkin
Adamantoise
Boar
Coeurl
Mole
Wolf
Cloudkin
Apkallu
Bat
Cockatrice
Dodo
Vulture
Scalekin
Croc
Dragonfly
Drake
Raptor
Serpent
Vilekin
Beetle
Diremite
Giant Hornet
Mantis
Yarzon
Wavekin
Crab
Jellyfish
Orobon
Pugil
Uragnite
Support Classes: GLA (Convalescence, Savage Blade, Provoke), PGL (Featherfoot, Second Wind, Haymaker)
Abilities
30 Tame - Bond target beast to you
30 Release - Sever your bond with currently active pet, releasing them back to the wild
30 Call Beast - Summon beast bound to you
30 Sic (BST) - Orders pet to attack target.
35 Tenacity - Orders pet to perform a defensive move. 30 second cooldown.
40 Savagery - Orders pet to perform an offensive move. 30 second cooldown.
45 Cunning - Orders pet to perform a support move. 30 second cooldown.
50 Call of the Wild - Summon all beasts bonded to you to attack the target. The additional pets deal 25% of their normal damage and can only auto-attack. Damage taken by you is split between you and the five pets for the duration. 15 second duration. 5 minute cooldown.
(Suggested) Quests
30 Embracing the wild
35 In the footsteps of...
40 When nature calls
45 Old trophies
50 In the Veldt, the mighty Veldt
50 A Relic Reborn:Vampire KillerDragon Whisker
Achievements
...and your not-so-little pet too! - Complete the beastmaster job quest "In the Veldt, the mighty Veldt".
Get out your relic whip - Acquire a dragon whisker in the quest A Relic Reborn.
Notes:
- The idea behind BST pets is that each pet type has three abilities corresponding to the Tenacity, Savagery and Cunning commands.
- While BST by themselves have a bit of enmity, I would make sure it isn't enough to solo tank stuff unless the pet is also present (hence why Lifelink increases enmity generated)
- Mitigation is a bit trickier, since the damage taken by the BST is split between master and pet. Self-cast cooldowns like Nourish and Redirect affect both.
- Because BST is a tank and their main mechanic is Lifelink, pathing for BST pets should aim to place them right next to the BST.
- To give an idea of how pet abilities work, for example a Wolf type pet may have Stalwartness (reduces damage taken by master and pet), Wild Fang (Single-target attack with high crit chance) and Furious Howl (increases damage dealt).
- In contrast, a Coeurl type pet may have Feline Reflexes (increased dodge), Scratch Fury (single target attack that places a DoT), and Charged Whisker (AoE paralyze).
- A Boar-type pet may have Unstoppable Force (Removes weight and bind effects from master and pet), Goring Tusk (front-cone attack), and Bellowing Grunt (AoE stun).
- An alternative that I'm sure some of you will hate would be pet abilities being standard per family. As in, all beastkin have the same abilities, all wavekin have the same abilities and so on. Depends on whether the devs would want to take the time to assign moves to all monster types that can be tamed by BST or whether it would be more time and cost-effective to simplify pet movesets.
- Of course, we also have the issue of illusion of choice, which pet classes like BST are subject to. Someone may get mad if the ideal pet for endgame was a Boar but they wanted to use a Coeurl or a Tortoise, for example.
- As a third option, BST pets could be tied to the storyline, meaning the BST would get five predetermined pets through the job quests and simply not have the option to tame mobs, but that I feel would go against the theme of the job.
- Call of the Wild is a mini-DPS cooldown that happens to provide major mitigation for the BST.
- In theory, between Lifelink's damage reduction, Redirect, Crack, Nourish, Convalescence and Second Wind BST should not be lacking for mitigation or recovery tools. That's not even counting Tenacity abilities from pets. With that in mind, I think Tenacity's cooldown could be increased to something like 2 minutes and ensure pet tenacity abilities justify the long cooldown.
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Blue Mage
Concept: DPS that uses abilities learned from monsters.
Mechanics: Equipping the BLU crystal places an HP penalty and increases max MP for the amount of HP lost. It also allows Lariat to restore 20% of your max MP when used and an additional 5% per additional second it is active on target.
BLU can learn spells using Azure Lash on a target. Upon use the ability has a chance to let the BLU learn a spell from the monster attacked. Learned attacks correspond to one of four receptacles. You can only learn moves corresponding to receptacles that are available to you.
30 Azure Lash - Delivers an attack with a potency of 80. Absorbs 30% of damage dealt as HP and MP. Allows the learning of monster abilities. 10 second cooldown.
30 Sapphire Recepticle - *Body Slam (Peiste, 10 second cooldown), Sanguine Bite (Wolf, 15 second cooldown), Sticky Tongue (Gigantoad, 30 second cooldown)
35 Aquamarine Recepticle - *Wing Cutter (Vulture, 20 second cooldown), Frost Breath (Raptor, 10 second cooldown), Acid Mist (Ochu, 10 second cooldown)
40 Lapiz Lazuli Recepticle - *Electric Velitation (Aevis, 5 second cooldown), Detonator (Bomb, 15 second cooldown), Dream Flower (Mandragora, 25 second cooldown)
45 Zircon Recepticle - *Malice (Ghost, 5 second cooldown), Jittering Jig (Spriggan, 2.5 second cooldown), Thunderstorm (Gnat, 10 second cooldown)
50 Magus Recepticle - *Grand Delta (Hidon, 90 second cooldown), Bad Breath (Morbol, 3 minute cooldown), Final Sting (Giant Bee, 2 minute cooldown)
Quests - *Warning: Fanfiction advisory is in effect* The BLU questline would involve Relm, a girl that is trying to continue the research on monster behavior started by her deceased grandfather. The quest would reveal that Relm's grandfather was a blue mage and the player character would inherit the knowledge Strago amassed before facing the beast that ended his life, Hidon.
30 Turning blue
35 For posterity
40 Remembering lore
45 Blue (mage)'s clues
50 Hidon seek
50 A Relic Reborn: Mystic Whip
Achievements
Blue Mage in Blue World - Complete the blue mage job quest "Hidon seek"
Whiplashing it, mystic style - Acquire a mystic whip in the quest A Relic Reborn
Notes
- The concept behind the recepticles is that they can store the essence of monsters. Each recepticle can store a certain number of monster essences, which the BLU can then draw upon to use monster skills.
- This said, I wanted to base BLU on the idea behind SaGa Frontier's Mystics; that is to say, a class that could absorb monsters and store their essence, allowing them access to certain monster attacks (Mystics could store up to three monsters through Mystic Sword, Mystic Glove and Mystic Boots, BLU would be able to store 5 through their recepticles). I went away from this idea because a BLU having only 5 spells seemed a bit odd.
- Blue Magic spells would appear as individual icons in the action bars. The recepticles themselves do not appear on the action bar, and instead are more for story purposes. Increases in the level cap could allow the BLU to gain extra abilities not-related to recepticles and perhaps increase the spell capacity of the recepticles gained in the lv30-50 quests.
- The spells marked with a star are already learned when the BLU gains that recepticle through the job quests. For example, the Zircon Recepticle is gained with Malice already learned (leaving the BLU to learn Jittering Jig and Thunderstorm).
- The way Blue Magic works is that spells bound to the same recepticle share the cooldown of the used spell. If a BLU uses Grand Delta, then all Magus Recepticle spells are placed on a 90 second cooldown. If that BLU instead uses Bad Breath, then all Magus Recepticle spells are placed on a 3 minute cooldown.
- Azure Lash and Lariat are key to restoring MP. I'm iffy on turning Lariat into an MP recovery tool, and am open to the posibility of moving that aspect to Barbed Flail. I did like the idea of the BLU somehow turning their whip into a leeching vine, wrapping it around the enemy using Lariat and using their whip to slowly draing MP form the enemy.
- I'm open to suggestions for blue magic spells if the ones I'm suggesting are not fitting. -
02-22-2014, 11:54 AMKitruSince you made BST a tank job, one of the first problems you're going to have is the transition from the class into the job forcing a change in role. DPS>healer works for ACN>SCH because SMN is already there to preserve the role continuance. As such, since you probably have it in your mind to keep BST as a tank, it would probably work better to have Flayer be a tank as well (which also lets you beef up the painfully weak CD suite that you've given them; the 10% DR that Crack and Redirect provide are pretty much unnoticeable; Foresight provides just under a 10% reduction in physical damage taken).Quote:
Originally Posted by Duelle
It might be easier if you just say "whip" and let the two types largely be determined by the relative aesthetic, similar to how the spears/glaives/etc that LNC uses are simply referred to as spears and varied simply based upon weapon name. If you're really looking for 2 separate weapon types, since a bull whip and a chain whip (as in a whip made of chains, as opposed to a literal chain used as a weapon) are) would be used in much the same way, you may want to look into using flails as the other type (since they're basically just chain whips with heavy objects on the end). It also gives the devs a bit more aesthetic working space, since there isn't much about a whip you can vary beyond the grip (the lash would have only minor options due to the limited size).Quote:
Weapons: Bullwhip. Chain whip.
The crack of a whip is already a small sonic boom incurred by the tail and a boomerang just seems like you're pulling out a completely random weapon (it would be like a WAR/PLD reaching down and picking up a rock instead of chucking their axe/shield; the devs seem to want the melee to actually what they've got on hand, even if it's not entirely sensible). As such, a better option would be to rename it Sonic Boom or something of the kind where the Flayer cracks their whip and sends a sonic boom/wind slash at their opponent.Quote:
15 Boomerang - Delivers an attack with a potency of 130. 15 yalm range.
I can see this being slightly problematic, not because of the effect but because it's a channeled ability that ends if you do anything else. If you use it and anything else from the server is queued up or are moving just a bit too much before you use it, the channel would end immediately. It would probably be needed to have the ability stun you for 1 second or so such that you're incapable of moving or using anything else while the ability activates/animates, allowing you to use other abilities.Quote:
30 Lariat - Channeled ability. Completely immobilize target for 6 seconds. Effect ends if you move or perform any actions. 45 second cooldown.
Also, since you're grabbing a hold of them, it would probably work to have it drag the target closer since you *are* immobilizing them with a whip you've wrapped around them (which means that you're holding on to them).
It's worse than Blood for Blood (which is 30% for 20 seconds every 80 seconds) while having a side effect that is a fair bit worse (since it decreases damage rather than survivability). The side effect is also something that's a bit wonky because short term reductions in attack speed get rather wonky depending upon how the game calculates relative attack speed, especially given that you're having the attack speed reduction be a fundamental part of the class.Quote:
46 Recklessness - Increases damage dealt by 20% for 20 seconds. Reduces attack speed by 15% for 5 seconds after effect fades. 90 second cooldown.
I'm also not entirely sure that "Recklessness" really makes me think of reducing attack speed when it fades (or any kind of reduction in effectiveness when it *fades*; Recklessness makes me think of a negative effect while it's active). I see that as something more like "Adrenaline Rush", where you push yourself and then get tired when it fades.
The standard for stun CDs is 20 seconds and it's a straight up plain-Jane stun without anything else. It would probably be better to reduce the CD down to the standard and give it something beyond the stun itself like all of the others do. Something that you may think about would be an extended range on it (such as 10y) to "make up" for the lack of damage.Quote:
28 Enhanced Takedown - Reduces the cooldown of Takedown to 25 seconds.
Since you can't attack while it's active and it only lasts 6 seconds, 20 potency is basically nothing. If you really want a trait that causes Lariat to deal some damage, you could safely beef it up to 200 potency or more because, even that high, it's a mere 166.67 potency per GCD compared to the 300 you'd expect to be dealing.Quote:
44 Constrictor - Lariat deals damage over time (20 potency) for every second it is active on target.
[quote]- Flayer is a melee DPS that has slightly better options for AoE compared to a PGL or LNC. Granted I have a feeling Wide Sweeps, Brandish and Nine Tails are in need of a boost.[.quote]
Given the attack speed increases you've baked into the class, you're basically providing roughly 10% higher DPS than is listed anyways so I'd say that Brandish and Nine Tails are pretty safe.
I actually think that Wide Sweeps might actually be a bit OP since getting 2 extra targets with your ST attacks with 25% uptime is *incredibly* good, even with the reduction in damage dealt. AoEs are roughly half of the damage of ST attacks distributed across multiple targets and, most of the time, you're not fighting more than 3 targets or so (hence Bane still being useful). Since Wide Sweeps wouldn't impede ST damage at all, you're giving free high damage cleaves with no opportunity cost with a *very* high relative uptime. I would probably have it reduce your damage by 25-40% for the duration and have all of your single target attacks hit 2 additional targets for the duration such that it's an explicit AoE ability that can't be used for "free" AoE damage during ST rotations. Honestly, Wide Sweeps could very easily render the need for the other AoEs largely redundant.
Since you're providing increased attack speed, which increases the benefit of such effects since you can compress more attacks into the time frame, you may want to consider limiting it to a certain number of charges, such that your next 6 attacks or so cleave 2 additional targets to keep it under control.
Being able to immobilize a boss would be borked as hell, even if they could still attack (since, you know, bind already lets them keep attacking), it would be broken as hell since you could invalidate any mechanic that involves the boss chasing someone down or moving elsewhere. It doesn't help that Holmgang already has a better case than this, given that it actually immobilizes the tank for the duration and is on a longer CD, and is still only capable of binding enemies that can actually be bound. Lariat should just be one of those interesting wonky utility abilities that a class gets that doesn't really have much universal applicability.Quote:
- Lariat is a channeled CC. The player can't do anything while keeping the target in place, as it would break the channel and prematurely end the effect. I was also thinking of having bosses be held in place by Lariat but being able to auto attack and cast spells.
I don't really see how implementing a system like Greased Lightning or Wrath would really complicate things too much. It makes a lot more sense as well since momentum is something that you build up, as opposed to a constant. I don't really see a problem with it as long as it's not just a Greased Lightning clone. You could even tweak some of the abilities to consume Momentum to provide the class itself with a fundamental bonus resource set up like WAR has (Wide Sweeps is a good contender; Lariat might also work).Quote:
- Momentum is key to use of the whip, and while an alternative to the two traits that I have suggested would be to implement Momentum as a system similar to greased lightning, it might have complicated things too much.
Momentum, of course, isn't really something that I think of when I think of whips, mainly because whips aren't large weapons with a lot of inertia. Momentum tends to be more about large objects that move slowly and build up to high speeds after a while, not a weapon that, honestly, stops moving as soon as you make the attack.
Regaining control of a whip isn't really hard since it's not particularly heavy and, as such, doesn't really have much in the way of inertia to get in the way so that it stops moving relatively quickly and in a pretty docile manner. Whips and flails take some learning to use because they're liable to hit you while you wind up for the attack if you don't know what you're doing; they move weird *while* you're swinging, not beforehand.Quote:
Conceptwise the flayer would need to slow down to regain control of their whip (I originally wanted to have the flayer damage themselves a bit per attack while Recklessness was up).
As such, I'm not entirely sure that "Momentum" is the correct term to use. Since whips have the whole "sonic boom" thing going for them and the whole "fluid weapon" thing, it might be better to have it be some kind of wind aura you build around you to speed yourself up; Whipping Winds would be a decent name.
Your numbers are highly problematic for mean mitigation, AoE damage, *and* eHP. With a 65/35 split, you're providing the BST with 54% increase to eHP (since they're only taking 65% of the damage) which is double what the other tanks get. Furthermore, you're providing a massive increase to mean mitigation on top of that since you're giving the pet 80% of your healing, which means that the BST would only need to be healed for (.65 + .2 * .35) 72% of the total damage.Quote:
The core mechanic of BST is "Lifelink", a buff the splits damage the BST takes with their pet that is active whenever the BST and their pet are within 5 yalms of each other. While Lifelink is active, the BST deals 20% less damage but gains an enmity boost. The damage split would be 65-35 between master and pet. AoE moves and damage auras ignore the pet. Lifelink also heals the pet for 80% of the heal received by the paster when Lifelink is active. Buffs like Protect and Stoneskin will affect the pet when used on the master and vice versa.
For balance sake, the damage transfer needs to be restricted to 80% to prevent massive eHP bloat and match the current tanks. Mean mitigation would be fixed by having the pet get healed for 25% of whatever healed you (which equates to a 25% increase in healing) though that's basically duplicating the effects of Shield Oath while using the same fundamental mechanisms as Defiance (you pet healing for a part of whatever healed you is basically +healing and the damage transfer to a secondary source is basically +hp) though it has the advantage of being painted over a few times. Also, immunity to auras and AoE attacks isn't enough. To keep things balanced, the pet needs to be unaffected by *any* multitarget effect at all, including heals since the pet getting healed by the AoE means that the BST benefits twice. As such, it's probably better go say that the pet is only affected by effects specifically targeting it: no AoEs, no cleaves, nothing.
Also, unless you plan on the transfer unaffected by anything else temporary effects, you shouldn't have the surv CDs affect both of them since that would be another case of double dipping.
Keep in mind that, because you're not giving the pet high enmity anything, the pet isn't really going to be a target for anything. The only threat to it is specific targeting (which is a pure PvP consideration and probably balanced because they'd be specifically choosing to nuke something you could just resummon).
This does bring up the question of what the -dam should be and how much damage the pet deals. The damage reduction should be large enough to account for the DPS increase derived from the pet. I'm not sure what the pot/GCD for the pet auto-attacks is, but, assuming it's ~50, that's ~13% of total damage for your character.
Someone was looking at WoW hunters when they were doing this. The names don't even make a lot of sense to me since you're saying that they're commands. Commanding a pet with "Tenacity" is pretty laughable. They're commands; they should be *commands* not abstract descriptors.Quote:
- The idea behind BST pets is that each pet type has three abilities corresponding to the Tenacity, Savagery and Cunning commands.
Random note on pet control: the AI manipulation abilities are pet abilities, not local abilities. You don't need to have Sic be given at all because it would just be part of the standard allotment of controls. I'm also not sure why you'd feel the need to specifically lock them into Heel AI all the time. Being able to put the pet on auto-fire would be pretty useful when you don't need the tank CD it provides (which is the only real reason that you're locking it).Quote:
- Because BST is a tank and their main mechanic is Lifelink, pathing for BST pets should aim to place them right next to the BST.
As to manipulating behavior, the only change needed would be a modification to the Heel function, which would simply be a modification of the priority between attacking the target and staying near you. as it stands, the AI places higher priority on attacking than being near you. Place proximity at higher priority than attacking and the pet sticks next to you and only attacks when it's next to you. No need to modify pathing at all.
Forcing class abilities to be AI manipulation abilities is also not something I'd really recommend. The pets should get their abilities as normal based upon your level and the job should actually provide you with abilities. The existing pet system works perfectly well without having to play wonky with it and turn pet abilities into job abilities.
Especially for a tank, this is going to be the biggest problem with having a crapton of different pets since predictable incoming damage is automatically going to be better for any fight because it's predicable (which is why Featherfoot is considered to be mediocre even for a MNK who gets 25% out of it). The pet with the straight up damage reduction ability is going to be king for everything.Quote:
- Of course, we also have the issue of illusion of choice, which pet classes like BST are subject to. Someone may get mad if the ideal pet for endgame was a Boar but they wanted to use a Coeurl or a Tortoise, for example.
This is probably the best option because it doesn't require what is, honestly, a completely arbitrary new system that doesn't really serve a useful purpose other than assuaging people's expectations from WoW. What's the difference between going out and finding an animal as part of a job quest and going out on your own and grabbing it? If anything, the job quest makes more sense because you're finding a *specific* animal as opposed to simply a type of animal and you're specifically training *that* animal and forming a bond with *that* animal over a long period of time. It lets you work in a better story too, because you're tying the animals you're dealing with into it rather than being able to handle whatever random beast you just tamed as well as the beast you've had with you since the beginning.Quote:
- As a third option, BST pets could be tied to the storyline, meaning the BST would get five predetermined pets through the job quests and simply not have the option to tame mobs, but that I feel would go against the theme of the job.
I'm not sure how exactly you can say that it works against the theme since the theme is simply an animal trainer. If anything, it makes more sense for there to be animals gained as part of the story because you're *training* them as opposed to just randomly finding an animal, taming it, and then releasing it later whenever you feel like it. Taming actually becomes something more complex and interesting than channeling an ability for 10 seconds.
Since the primary purpose of it is to provide mitigation, it would probably be more apt to say that it's a major mitigation CD, on par with Hallowed Ground or Holmgang, with a small DPS increase than a DPS CD that provides mitigation. The primary function is as a tank CD, not a damage boost.Quote:
- Call of the Wild is a mini-DPS cooldown that happens to provide major mitigation for the BST.
That's actually a painfully weak CD suite. Nourish and Second Wind don't scale with incoming damage and, even then, are tiny bits in situations where you actually want a tank CD (especially since Nourish is over the course of 15 seconds so it's not even instant). Crack is painfully weak as well since it's only a single target that you're reducing damage taken from and, even if it's on a 25% uptime, recall that WAR has a 10% damage reduction debuff for *all* targets that it keeps up at all times. On top of that, both it and Redirect, as tank CDs themselves, are complete and utter jokes since they provide so very little.Quote:
- In theory, between Lifelink's damage reduction, Redirect, Crack, Nourish, Convalescence and Second Wind BST should not be lacking for mitigation or recovery tools. That's not even counting Tenacity abilities from pets.
Even if you turn the Tenacity abilities into abilities on par with the other tank CDs, you're still about 3 abilities short of an actual tank CD suite. Nourish is basically on par with Bloodbath. Second Wind is going to be passed over in favor of Featherfoot. Look at what WAR takes from its CCs and how it uses them, since you basically gave the same suite to BST: Conv, Provoke, Featherfoot, Internal Release, and a slot that basically means nothing. The only particularly potent CDs you get from the CD suite are Conv, which is actually a full on useful tank CD, and Featherfoot, which isn't a tank CD so much as an ability you use on CD because it's unreliable and only gets results over the long term.
You should really turn Flayer into a tank so that you can actually give it a legitimate tank CD instead of wasting slots on CDs that have to be weak because you decided to make it a DPS. On top of that, if you abandon the idea of turning the pet system into a copy of WoW's, you could actually turn the job abilities into stuff that the class actually needs, like tank CDs and some extra utility and attacks.
The biggest things that need changing are turning Flayer into a tank, abandoning the notion that the pet system needs to be completely overhauled to be like WoW's for whatever reason, and fixing the CD suite you provided, which is laughable. -
02-24-2014, 01:13 AMThyrel
As someone stated before having a class rely on its pet only is no viable in this game, so why not make the BST actually transform into the beast ?
You have Melee, Tank, Ranged, Caster, and maybe some other monster transformations and when you transform you just get 10 new abilities from that specific monster type. Other than that I don't see how a BST could work.. -
02-25-2014, 12:38 AMMartaDemireuxI do believe my version would work well if you read the OP. The BST itself would do the bulk of the damage and the pet would be there for supplemental damage, enmity mitigation and enfeebling/DoT effects. It would essentially play a lot like SMN but it would be busier. You would be changing your pet out frequently for each situation, starting boss fights with Funguar to DoT and then switching to another pet depending on what sort of damage needs to be done or how safe/dangerous it is for certain ranges.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thyrel
What you're describing sounds like the Morpher job in FFTA. I'd like to see that one in the game sometime too but coming from a different class that wields crystal balls or something. Maybe the Animist could be paired with it which would summon the monsters out for a single attack/buff (akin to older FF's SMN) instead of turning into it. -
03-03-2014, 06:24 PMDuelleWell, I did intend Flayer having a DPS job. It just took me a while to decide on a blue mage suggestion (updated my post, btw).Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitru
I guess Lariat could bring the enemy a couple of yalms closer. Then again, the distance thing has been abandoned by the developers as far as I can tell. It's not like in 1.0 where a mid-range weapon like a spear or a whip would have longer reach than a sword. I Suggested Lariat assuming it would require the standard 3-yalm melee range.Quote:
Also, since you're grabbing a hold of them, it would probably work to have it drag the target closer since you *are* immobilizing them with a whip you've wrapped around them (which means that you're holding on to them).
The wording is weird, but I was copying how the game words stuff. What you'd get after recklessness expires is a 15% Slow debuff. Kind of how Berserk's "prevents the use of weapon skills" translates to "you get Pacification".Quote:
It's worse than Blood for Blood (which is 30% for 20 seconds every 80 seconds) while having a side effect that is a fair bit worse (since it decreases damage rather than survivability). The side effect is also something that's a bit wonky because short term reductions in attack speed get rather wonky depending upon how the game calculates relative attack speed, especially given that you're having the attack speed reduction be a fundamental part of the class.
As mentioned I wanted Recklessness to originally deal a small amount of damage to the Flayer per attack executed throughout the duration. Use of the whip requires a lot of control, and the idea behind this ability would be that the flayer focuses on hitting harder with the whip, hurting themselves in the process (which is what would happen in real life if you don't maintain control over the whip). Since self damage didn't seem to work, I figured the flayer would want to slow down a bit to regain the right amount of control and momentum over their weapon.Quote:
I'm also not entirely sure that "Recklessness" really makes me think of reducing attack speed when it fades (or any kind of reduction in effectiveness when it *fades*; Recklessness makes me think of a negative effect while it's active). I see that as something more like "Adrenaline Rush", where you push yourself and then get tired when it fades.
Noted and changed in my suggestion.Quote:
The standard for stun CDs is 20 seconds and it's a straight up plain-Jane stun without anything else. It would probably be better to reduce the CD down to the standard and give it something beyond the stun itself like all of the others do. Something that you may think about would be an extended range on it (such as 10y) to "make up" for the lack of damage.
I figured the selling point of Lariat is the CC effect rather than the damage. In fact, the sacrifice in damage potential would be justified by the CC. I could bump if up to a 35 potency DoT, though.Quote:
Since you can't attack while it's active and it only lasts 6 seconds, 20 potency is basically nothing. If you really want a trait that causes Lariat to deal some damage, you could safely beef it up to 200 potency or more because, even that high, it's a mere 166.67 potency per GCD compared to the 300 you'd expect to be dealing.
Well, the idea is that you'd pop Wide Sweeps in AoE situations where you have multiple targets to take down. A boss fight with multiple adds (slime adds in the second WP boss come to mind) would pretty much the best place to use (though yes I can see Flayer being very useful for AoE burning stuff in speed runs). I can agree to nerfing the damage by 50% and making it hit two additional targets.Quote:
I actually think that Wide Sweeps might actually be a bit OP since getting 2 extra targets with your ST attacks with 25% uptime is *incredibly* good, even with the reduction in damage dealt.
I was considering using a system like what you're suggesting but as a shortcut for instant spells for BLU. Something like using certain abilities gives you a buff that if you stack to 5 lets you cast one spell instantly. I never really worked the kinks on cast times for blue magic, so that's still a possibility.Quote:
I don't really see how implementing a system like Greased Lightning or Wrath would really complicate things too much. It makes a lot more sense as well since momentum is something that you build up, as opposed to a constant. I don't really see a problem with it as long as it's not just a Greased Lightning clone. You could even tweak some of the abilities to consume Momentum to provide the class itself with a fundamental bonus resource set up like WAR has (Wide Sweeps is a good contender; Lariat might also work).
Depends. The idea of momentum came from how chain whips are used in martial arts. The stuff I read on it mentioned that the martial artist wraps and unwraps the whip constantly to keep the weapon's momentum (rather than having to spend time doing the wind up). It's not a perfect transition of that idea, but I did keep it in mind.Quote:
Momentum, of course, isn't really something that I think of when I think of whips, mainly because whips aren't large weapons with a lot of inertia. Momentum tends to be more about large objects that move slowly and build up to high speeds after a while, not a weapon that, honestly, stops moving as soon as you make the attack.
These are all fair points. I'll change them in my suggestion.Quote:
For balance sake, the damage transfer needs to be restricted to 80% to prevent massive eHP bloat and match the current tanks. Mean mitigation would be fixed by having the pet get healed for 25% of whatever healed you (which equates to a 25% increase in healing) though that's basically duplicating the effects of Shield Oath while using the same fundamental mechanisms as Defiance (you pet healing for a part of whatever healed you is basically +healing and the damage transfer to a secondary source is basically +hp) though it has the advantage of being painted over a few times. Also, immunity to auras and AoE attacks isn't enough. To keep things balanced, the pet needs to be unaffected by *any* multitarget effect at all, including heals since the pet getting healed by the AoE means that the BST benefits twice. As such, it's probably better go say that the pet is only affected by effects specifically targeting it: no AoEs, no cleaves, nothing.
The double dipping is intentional, which is why I made the cooldowns so seemingly weak. Effect potency may have to be tweaked to keep it balanced with PLD and WAR, but the idea is that the double dipping would in effect make the cooldowns stronger without giving BLU or Flayer access to tank-level cooldowns when they are DPS.Quote:
Also, unless you plan on the transfer unaffected by anything else temporary effects, you shouldn't have the surv CDs affect both of them since that would be another case of double dipping.
I'm making a change in this. Lifelink would nerf the BST's own damage by 30%. The pet's damage could then be tweaked to make up the difference and maintain parity with WAR and PLD.Quote:
This does bring up the question of what the -dam should be and how much damage the pet deals. The damage reduction should be large enough to account for the DPS increase derived from the pet. I'm not sure what the pot/GCD for the pet auto-attacks is, but, assuming it's ~50, that's ~13% of total damage for your character.
Considering WoW's pet system blew FFXI's pet system out of the water in nearly every aspect, this isn't a bad thing. >.>Quote:
Someone was looking at WoW hunters when they were doing this.
I wouldn't want BST to have that horrid pet UI we currently have in the game. By giving BST commands and having pets respond appropriately, I was aiming to tone down the micromanagement jobs like SCH have on their plate. Unlike a healer that's safe in the distance, the tank already has enough to worry about to micromanage a pet on top of trying to stay alive and avoiding the marks on the ground.Quote:
the AI manipulation abilities are pet abilities, not local abilities. You don't need to have Sic be given at all because it would just be part of the standard allotment of controls.
I did this in part because of how Lifelink requires the master and pet to be near each other. Screwy AI (like SCH and SMN pets running off randomly) would likely get the BST killed.Quote:
I'm also not sure why you'd feel the need to specifically lock them into Heel AI all the time.
Well, some people like certain animals more than others. I'm sure some would want a wolf pet, while others may want a buffalo pet.Quote:
This is probably the best option because it doesn't require what is, honestly, a completely arbitrary new system that doesn't really serve a useful purpose other than assuaging people's expectations from WoW. What's the difference between going out and finding an animal as part of a job quest and going out on your own and grabbing it? If anything, the job quest makes more sense because you're finding a *specific* animal as opposed to simply a type of animal and you're specifically training *that* animal and forming a bond with *that* animal over a long period of time. It lets you work in a better story too, because you're tying the animals you're dealing with into it rather than being able to handle whatever random beast you just tamed as well as the beast you've had with you since the beginning.
I did have a backup for story-determined pets:
Of course the story would have to revolve either the player character being tasked with taming rare animals or re-taming beasts that went out of control after their master died or something.Suggested pets (story-determined)
30 Wolf - Wild Fang, Nerve Sever, Furious Howl
35 Mantis - Standing Chine, Kneeling Snath, Impale
40 Vulture - Feather Barrage, Wing Cutter, Helldive
45 Crab - Scissor Clip, Bubble Shower, Pincer Hold
50 Drake - Slam, Burning Cyclone, Smouldering Scales
More a response to FFXI nostalgia. I've seen too many BSTs complain when SE started moving away from taming pets and more in the direction of jug-summoned monsters.Quote:
I'm not sure how exactly you can say that it works against the theme since the theme is simply an animal trainer.
Something I was considering was replacing Tenacity with a self-cover ability (similar to how Interceptor could randomly absorb attacks aimed at Shadow in FFVI) and use that as a defensive cooldown. It would reduce the number of abilities per pet to two, though...