Classes- easy to get all of them, but skill? Idea and discussion

Greetings. Im worried about gaining all classes by one character. Of course it is very nice, but what about of gaming quality? Every player can get 50lvl by any DoW class just by jumping from one "fate" location to another (5 such locations) and there is no need to learn how to play class- just use 2-3 skills and enough. An then we see unskilled tanks in 50lvl dungeon who dont know how to raise anmity, DDs, who dont know how to damage and healers "no heal". The game itself doesnt demand skill, because you can pass Titan (hard) just laying dead. Dear developers, please, make some special "Class Trials"- just like Guildhests, and make them very hard to pass, so these trials will teach how to play class. Trials can be on levels 10-15-20-25-30-35-40-45-50 and player can not get to hard Primals or other hard dungeons, if he doesnt pass these "Class Trials". I think it is a good idea

isnt it the same as practice skill in low lvl dungeon to high lvl dungeon ?

No need to pass them- just skip

nothing can prepare you for titan hard mode

I like the idea of the DF dungeon list resetting for each class so that you have to clear each dungeon once before you can run the next, so that you have to have run all dungeons at least once on a class before you can even attempt the hard mode primals. If you wanna level your class up to 50 using just fates, you still could, but you couldn't just ride the fate train straight to end-game party content. It would still help, though since you could run each dungeon knowing you're the maximum possible level, and hopefully you've done something to have at least level 45-50 gear so then you could just focus on learning to play your role through most of the DF content.

We do need something like that in place. I dunno if I'm just paranoid, but I run dungeons on each class just to make sure I know what I'm doing. I leveled my SMN to 50 by just running around with Titan. And you guessed it, at 50 I had no idea what rotation I should use, or how to get the best DPS. I did a ton of research then ran some earlier dungeons before I attempted AK/WP just to make sure I knew what I was doing. I'm sort of leveling WHM through dungeons alone... no queues so makes sense! But alas, not everyone has the patience to do dungeons, so we definitely need like... a "new game+" type of thing in the game. Just so people l2p!

We need to do something about you people not just paying attention to your own class and character Instead of you caring about other people and how they want to play.

That's what needs to change.

I know whats gonna be said. "If you suck it effects me blah blah blah" and to that i'd say BS because you would leave in a heartbeat if the party sucked and you would seek another instead of trying to help this problem and help teach people how to play.

The last job quest for each one usually requires you to use just about all of your abilities a certain way to clear them.

None of the classes are that difficult.

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Originally Posted by Garnatian

None of the classes are that difficult.

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Still teaches you the basics of your job though.

Maat <3

T.T

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Originally Posted by Seig345

I like the idea of the DF dungeon list resetting for each class so that you have to clear each dungeon once before you can run the next, so that you have to have run all dungeons at least once on a class before you can even attempt the hard mode primals.

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Sir, can i offer you one internet? I second this.

This is all kinds of silly.

If you're that concerned, give them some pointers.

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Originally Posted by Ri_ri

This is all kinds of silly.

If you're that concerned, give them some pointers.

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Sure, ill give pointers to all 1.49 mil of this game's registered users.

But in all seriousness, pointers are fine. However, even if you read the largest wall of text about your class, it requires some kind of practice to understand your class. Practice you only get from running the dungeons/instances.

And this is why plenty of people want FATEs nerfed. If you have to level up via dungeons, you have to learn your job.

I agree...there needs to be something added to force people to learn their class properly. The FATES are annoying...blast a class to 50 while button mashing a small handful of skills in between teleports/chocobo rides is no way to learn how to properly play your class. I always give advice to people when they ask me questions about PLD & am happy to do so...but that alone will never be enough if people don't put in some practice with it. Rage-quitters only add to this issue as well as stubborn players who won't take advice when given. If people would embrace the idea of politely offering/accepting advice, then putting that advice to work in some dungeons, everything would be so much better. But as it stands with FATES being overpowered for leveling, the vast majority of people will choose that option...which is why we need something in place that not only makes people learn their class, but also makes them learn basic group mechanics & class synergy.

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Originally Posted by Urthdigger

And this is why plenty of people want FATEs nerfed. If you have to level up via dungeons, you have to learn your job.

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With all due respect, the dungeons in this game are not hard. The playerbase is just that ... "touched". A few good players inevitably carry the lacking one and that's how pretty much all the leveling isntances work. I want to say there are maybe 2 exceptions to this rule out of all the 4 man instances, and they are not AK/WP (both of those are probably easier than Qarn).

TL;DR - Having people do dungeons instead of FATEs will serve as a nice QoL change from the current sheep FATE farming crowd, but I would be extremely hesitant to call it a cure for bad.

Between class/job quests, guildhests and dungeons, people really have no excuse to not be able to learn how to play all jobs effectively. Instead, they pick the path of least resistance and grind FATEs all the way while doing the absolute minimum to get their class abilities and job gear, then subject people to their inability to effectively play said job when they queue for AK after they reach 50.

I use the DF a lot, my fav is my warrior but I also enjoy other classes and play them frequently so I see a lot of groups and they are almost always bad because as fearfactoryman said, people don't care or have no understanding not only of their own class and role but also don't care for the group (mechanic). I also see lv 50s in lower level dungeons with white gear pieces playing "key" roles such as tank or healer and then really have NO clue what they're doing, none, absolutely none and that puzzles me. I mean to each their own, I wouldn't want to force ppl to play dungeons if they don't want to but that people pick a class and don't care about its function or skills AT ALL, that I don't get. Why are they logging in, why are they queuing? It can't be fun for a player to run around like an idiot after a group of mobs because he hasn't detected the use of flash, provoke, overpower, shield lob or tomahawk yet, or that enmity increasing skills work best in a combo. Had this lv 40+ something tank in Braiflox and I'm not kidding, he used only ONE skill and that was Rage of Halone. He didn't even use it in combo or cycle through the mobs with it nope, only rage of halone and nothing else on one mob at a time, like a bot. SE could have just given every class 1 skill, there are a lot of people out there who wouldn't notice, because that PLD with his Rage of Halone was extreme, but I've seen other tanks or dds only use 2...3 skills at most where I wonder what people get out of "PLAYING" like this, how it can be fun for them. The only answer I can come up with is that - strangely - these kind of people obviously do not want to engage with people in an MMO, they're playing the game because it's new and it's out there but it could also be a single player game for them apparently and once in a while they need to team up to complete a story line quest that they are probably not even reading. MMOs have changed A LOT and I didn't even notice

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Originally Posted by Urthdigger

And this is why plenty of people want FATEs nerfed. If you have to level up via dungeons, you have to learn your job.

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So in your MMO, only people who can dedicate an hour straight to dungeon running - no AFKing, no breaks - are worthy of EXP.

Pass.

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Originally Posted by Alyko

So in your MMO, only people who can dedicate an hour straight to dungeon running - no AFKing, no breaks - are worthy of EXP.

Pass.

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That is what questing is for, in a normal MMO. In this MMO, you quest once and then need a way to XP for alts. The system is so brilliant, and yet so broken.

The main problem I see in this post is people who obviously want people to have forced training to enhance their solo experience and their concept of how they game should be played ... because a person who runs in a guild wouldn't be whining about 'people knowing how to do their job', but would instead be helping their guildmates along. This idea suits the guys that farm Garuda .. but bail if they find out someone in the group hasn't done it before. They basically see the game and everyone in it is one giant AI meant to make their advancement in the game as easy as possible, with little to no human interaction. They may as well go play as single person RPG instead of an MMO.

You get what you get in a PuG. Join a guild if you want a steady group .. AND if you can sacrifice the time to actually help someone else every once in a while.

Okay so here is where I sit . . .

My sweetie got me into this game and showed me the ropes of basic gameplay.

Google helped me learn my favorite two classes. I now play, as with every MMO, an Epic healer that almost never loses a life under my heals. I am now learning how to DPS on a THM.

Moral: I choose to learn to play as a team player. The game is fine - do not push for requirements of dungeons, etc. Instead find a FC that helps and has teamwork. An MMO is a teamwork game, so find a group that believes in that and learn from them, then pass that knowledge onto others. If you do not believe in that then unsubscribe and go back to a PvP game where you belong :)

The issue of players who only do FATEs to 50 and don't learn their class can easily be solved by forcing you to do each dungeon in order to unlock the next for each job/role. In fact, I don't know why this isn't enforced.

So if you switch to a new job, then you're locked out of all the dungeons up to the latest one you've done for that job.

Though playing my own Devil's advocate, this could be a giant nuisance for those of us who actually put effort into learning our jobs and would just be punishing us for horribly unskilled players.

My actual suggestion: Just leave. It's one thing if the person is simply unfamiliar with the dungeon... you can teach that and help them through it with minimal difficulty. But when a person can't play their class and are so lazy they weren't even willing to put in the effort of learning it before jumping into a high level dungeon... then they deserve to get left behind. Maybe before you leave suggest that they start off at a lower level dungeon and work their way up.

No, pals. Dungeon "unlocking" is not a good decision, because it is very easy to ask good skilled friends "please, drag me through this dungeon" and no problem. No. Im talking about some solo Trials every *** levels, but designed very close to the real ingame situations.

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Originally Posted by Onyxys

No, pals. Dungeon "unlocking" is not a good decision, because it is very easy to ask good skilled friends "please, drag me through this dungeon" and no problem. No. Im talking about some solo Trials every *** levels, but designed very close to the real ingame situations.

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....sound like you are asking for a system very pain in the ass for me. It is easier if I simply shout : Looking for exp < insert job> for tips ingame, ppl gladly share the info and eventually teach you how to play