Crystal Tower - A Cinematic Experience or a Mechanical one?

I'll be blunt:

The Binding Coil of Bahamut represents everything wrong with endgame in MMOs today: Crappy monster designs, crappy spell effects, and a crap ton of mechanics to "make up" for it.

So will Crystal Tower be more like Titan and The Praetorium (Fancy moves, Michael Bay Explosions, glittery spell effects oozing out of your screen, Michael Bay Explosions, cool boss designs, and did I mention Michael Bay Explosions?) or will it be more like The Binding Coil of Bahamut?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/..._in_tights.gif

He said that The Crystal Tower would be more "casual" and "duty finder friendly", so it seems to be a cinematic experience.

Which is great. Filler mechanics never makes a fun fight.

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Originally Posted by ReithDynamis

It's not whats wrong with MMOs today. You're an example of whats wrong with players who got the wrong idea with what MMOs are. Go play some single player game like skyrim.

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What MMOs are, besides multiplayer online games?

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Originally Posted by firepixiedarien

I'll be blunt:

The Binding Coil of Bahamut represents everything wrong with endgame in MMOs today: Crappy monster designs, crappy spell effects, and a crap ton of mechanics to "make up" for it.

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Yeah,well, that's just like your opinion, man.

Crappy spells effects? such as?? What exactly is bothering you? Sounds like you just wanted to be handed endgame. In reality Endgame should be anything but easy, casual, and a stroll in the park.

It's not whats wrong with MMOs today. You're an example of whats wrong with players who got the wrong idea with what MMOs are. Go play some single player game like skyrim.

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Originally Posted by firepixiedarien

[...] Fancy moves, Michael Bay Explosions, glittery spell effects oozing out of your screen, Michael Bay Explosions, cool boss designs, and did I mention Michael Bay Explosions?)

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And this is why games suffer from Spectacle Creep

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Originally Posted by Ri_ri

He said that The Crystal Tower would be more "casual" and "duty finder friendly", so it seems to be a cinematic experience.

Which is great. Filler mechanics never makes a fun fight.



What MMOs are, besides multiplayer online games?

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I'm not sure what you're asking has anything to do with the OPs comment nor with my reply. Care to expand? Cause your question is ambiguous.

I don't now how anything in my comment had any relation to refute that online games are about communities. It was based on the OP's error in expectations that everything should be devoid of some mechanic just because MMOs should be a certain way. When actually MMOs are about the developer interpretation of an online realm that they hope people would enjoy.

To say he hates the mechanics of Coils is alot like saying he hates the idea of party play or strategy teams need to come up with to defeat difficult content and to push ourselves to our limit. The spell animation and the npc looks is an aesthetics thing that is all over ffxiv not just in Coil so I really have no idea what he is whining about .

And seeing Coil along with crystal is the first snippets of a long chain of dungeons why throw out all the bang and whistles so soon? seems alot like what that gent was saying about Spectacle creep, or did you read that? Such content needs a build up, this is not a first person shooter like Battlefield where it supposed to be all intense and totally cinematic all of the time in the stretch of one match. This would never keep people coming back.

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Originally Posted by ReithDynamis

It was based on the OP's error in expectations that everything should be devoid of some mechanic just because MMOs should be a certain way.

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So there is a "correct" way to have expectations now? Damn you sound elitist man. I was about to reply that I wouldn't mind mechanics at all if they made the bosses look cooler and the moves look better (think, Dark Souls or ya know, FRIGGIN TITAN) but I think it's better to just /ignore you.

I'd prefer a cinematic experience, I enjoyed that element in FFXI, XIV 1.0 and even in 2.0.

We can just skip the cut-scenes later and enjoy the battles once we've seen it the first time.


LET THE FARMING BEGIN.

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Originally Posted by firepixiedarien

So there is a "correct" way to have expectations now? Damn you sound elitist man. I was about to reply that I wouldn't mind mechanics at all if they made the bosses look cooler and the moves look better (think, Dark Souls or ya know, FRIGGIN TITAN) but I think it's better to just /ignore you.

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Are you saying that you don't want the game to have mechanics if it doesn't look great to you? Let's say hypothetically that they don't make it look better, are you saying you'd rather the fights have no mechanics?

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Originally Posted by Seig345

Are you saying that you don't want the game to have mechanics if it doesn't look great to you? Let's say hypothetically that they don't make it look better, are you saying you'd rather the fights have no mechanics?

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You're being too critical of that quote.

You can easily employ a 'cinematic' or at least an visually stunning fight with battle mechanics, that's easy enough.
What they appear to be saying it that they hope they'll employ both 'Over-the-top, cinematic attacks' along side actual interesting mechanics.

They're NOT saying that, they've already said " I wouldn't mind mechanics at all if they made the bosses look cooler and the moves look better".


There's lots of room to make fights like Gilgamesh, Unei and Doga, Darkcloud very visually spectacular whilst maintaining fight mechanics, they've done it before, they can do it again.

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Originally Posted by firepixiedarien

So there is a "correct" way to have expectations now? Damn you sound elitist man.

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there is. its called curb your enthuisasm. all your complaining about are beginning bosses and trash mobs, so there minor npc should be something out of epic story board? yes lets bring out the big guns before the later coil turns come out so they can be mediacore compared to whats already there.

I'm elitest cause you have a hard time letting progression build up? damn you're one of them instant gratification people who can never appreciate story driven content. what are u doing here?

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Originally Posted by Shioban

You're being too critical of that quote. [...]

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I know there's a lot of toxicity on these forums so I don't blame you, but there wasn't anything more to what I asked than the question itself, and certainly no criticism. I was trying to get clarification on that part because in the end, if they have nothing against mechanics, then there was no need to mention them in the list of things wrong with the endgame. Saying you wouldn't mind the game mechanics if the game looked better, after stating that you don't believe it looks better, suggests that you DO mind the mechanics. That's why my second question in my earlier post was how they would prefer it if the cinematic quality remained the same.

In the end, if the complaint has nothing to do with the mechanics (which were mentioned in two of the OP's posts), and just with the lack of cinematic quality in the endgame, then I understand.

I'd rather have fun mechanics than fun graphics but I'd prefer both.

So actually want something mindless and boring? I also don't understand how you are putting Titan in same catagory of Praet instead of Coil.

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Originally Posted by firepixiedarien

I'll be blunt:

The Binding Coil of Bahamut represents everything wrong with endgame in MMOs today: Crappy monster designs, crappy spell effects, and a crap ton of mechanics to "make up" for it.

So will Crystal Tower be more like Titan and The Praetorium (Fancy moves, Michael Bay Explosions, glittery spell effects oozing out of your screen, Michael Bay Explosions, cool boss designs, and did I mention Michael Bay Explosions?) or will it be more like The Binding Coil of Bahamut?

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I'm sorry? what spell effects and monster designs in coil are crappy? And the last part of your first sentence seems to conflict with the first part, because if you mean effects in the context of functionality (not graphics) there's nothing crappy about the effects at all. There are a several fun and challenging mechanics. None of this represents anything wrong with endgame in MMOs today. It represents everything right? Would you prefer a plain, blah mob that just doles out lots of damage and requires no thought on the players, just have curing, tank generating enough enmity, and dps... dpsing? No, I'd prefer more varied mechanics. The coil bosses don't overly rely on any one type of gimmick.

At any rate, your two points, "cinematic experience" and "mechanical experience" are not mutually exclusive, you make it sound like it has to be either or. It should be strong on both points. The only problem with the former is people raging about ppl not skipping cinematics.

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Originally Posted by Seig345

I know there's a lot of toxicity on these forums so I don't blame you, but there wasn't anything more to what I asked than the question itself, and certainly no criticism. I was trying to get clarification on that part because in the end, if they have nothing against mechanics, then there was no need to mention them in the list of things wrong with the endgame. Saying you wouldn't mind the game mechanics if the game looked better, after stating that you don't believe it looks better, suggests that you DO mind the mechanics. That's why my second question in my earlier post was how they would prefer it if the cinematic quality remained the same.

In the end, if the complaint has nothing to do with the mechanics (which were mentioned in two of the OP's posts), and just with the lack of cinematic quality in the endgame, then I understand.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I'm sorry? what spell effects and monster designs in coil are crappy? And the last part of your first sentence seems to conflict with the first part, because if you mean effects in the context of functionality (not graphics) there's nothing crappy about the effects at all. There are a several fun and challenging mechanics. None of this represents anything wrong with endgame in MMOs today. It represents everything right? Would you prefer a plain, blah mob that just doles out lots of damage and requires no thought on the players, just have curing, tank generating enough enmity, and dps... dpsing? No, I'd prefer more varied mechanics. The coil bosses don't overly rely on any one type of gimmick.

At any rate, your two points, "cinematic experience" and "mechanical experience" are not mutually exclusive, you make it sound like it has to be either or. It should be strong on both points. The only problem with the former is people raging about ppl not skipping cinematics.

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While I most definitely don't want a Cinematic experience or a mechanical one to be mutually exclusive, it seems that MMOs nowadays choose one or the other.

The Titan HM fight, is the great exception to this rule, as the fight with him is both challenging and a spectacle to behold. Ifrit HM and Garuda HM are to an extent, exceptions as well. And as I mentioned previously, the game Dark Souls is riddled with Titan HM-like boss fights.

CT spoiler: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LB4tSHvsN5g

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I'm sorry? what spell effects and monster designs in coil are crappy?

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I've not done it yet, and the only video of it I've seen has been this one...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRlD9-rR8sI

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Oh, people are taking this thread seriously? Well then...

I don't understand this thread. From what I've read this is what I can infer: that OP wants the game to look nice while still having good mechanics. Doesn't it? The game looks nice! (Though, I would like better innovative game mechanics.)

I'm having trouble where the correlation between having bad ass looking bosses and their mechanics is. The mechanics are fine! I'm starting to think your issue is with animations and not the mechanics, and that you're confusing the two. Because, when you think about Dark Souls all the bosses have simple mechanics, it's the animations that make them look cool and different.

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Originally Posted by snugBubz

I don't understand this thread. From what I've read this is what I can infer: that OP wants the game to look nice while still having good mechanics. Doesn't it? The game looks nice! (Though, I would like better innovative game mechanics.)

I'm having trouble where the correlation between having bad ass looking bosses and their mechanics is. The mechanics are fine! I'm starting to think your issue is with animations and not the mechanics, and that you're confusing the two. Because, when you think about Dark Souls all the bosses have simple mechanics, it's the animations that make them look cool and different.

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Coil 1 is a snake that splits in half and has lil minions.

Coil 2 is floating ball.






Ultima Weapon has the power of all 3 Primals and shoots green laser beams of death at you like he's Dragonzord.

Titan smashes your face in with Landslide, shoves the Weight of the Land on everyone's shoulders, puts his foot down and tells everyone to shut up with Tumult, tosses bombs at you like he's Donkey Kong, traps one of us in a rock where he does unsavory things to you, then alluva sudden EARTHEN FRIGGIN FURY.

He does all of this, while only wearing a thong.

Allow me to reiterate: A snake, and a floating ball.

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Originally Posted by firepixiedarien

Coil 1 is a snake that splits in half and has lil minions.

Coil 2 is floating ball.




Ultima Weapon has the power of all 3 Primals and shoots green laser beams of death at you like he's Dragonzord.

Titan smashes your face in with Landslide, shoves the Weight of the Land on everyone's shoulders, puts his foot down and tells everyone to shut up with Tumult, tosses bombs at you like he's Donkey Kong, traps one of us in a rock where he does unsavory things to you, then alluva sudden EARTHEN FRIGGIN FURY. He does all of this, while only wearing a thong.

Allow me to reiterate: A snake, and a floating ball.

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You realize all the turns in Coil are just a lead up to eventually fight Bahamut right? And the final battle in Praet (Thancred) is the most anti-climactic thing ever.

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Originally Posted by MomoOG

You realize all the turns in Coil are just a lead up to eventually fight Bahamut right? And the final battle in Praet (Thancred) is the most anti-climactic thing ever.

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We don't speak of Thancred here.

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Originally Posted by firepixiedarien

We don't speak of Thancred here.

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the primals fights are getting extreme version cause they are wupposed be a big deal again cause..... they are primals. bahumet is a primal. not the the snakes or the ADS and are not ment to br bosses but mini bosses. do u not understand the difference?

turn 2 is intense are u kidding? ball or not i guerenty u only saw a video and not actually been there yet have you.

why do u think you a quantifiable opinion when i know you have not done it?

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Originally Posted by firepixiedarien

and a crap ton of mechanics to "make up" for it.

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Tell us exactly which bosses have a "crap ton" of mechanics in Coil outside of Twintania. Because it sure as hell isn't the 1st boss when it is literally move out of bad and bring 1-2 slimes into the boss before burning both bosses and forgetting about the slimes. The 2nd boss where you chose the mechanics you deal with and other than rot it is literally just tank swaps and move out of bad. Or the 3rd boss where it's a gauntlet event and once you figure out what each thing does all it is is a dps race.

I'd honestly expect coil like mechanics(outside of turn 5) other than something like rot, everything is extremely basic for understanding and it just gets easier as more people see it. If moving out of the bad and having the possible kill order on bosses is too hard then idk how much easier it gets than that, because that's already on WoW lfr level there.

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Originally Posted by ReithDynamis

the primals fights are getting extreme version cause they are wupposed be a big deal again cause..... they are primals. bahumet is a primal. not the the snakes or the ADS and are not ment to br bosses but mini bosses. do u not understand the difference?

turn 2 is intense are u kidding? ball or not i guerenty u only saw a video and not actually been there yet have you.

why do u think you a quantifiable opinion when i know you have not done it?

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ADS isn't exactly a visual spectacular I can agree with that point...

But it is fun.

I think people who agree with the OP need to realize just where the Binding Coil of Bahamut currently stands, in respect to story and placement.
Just because level progression and gear progression takes us here after the mainstory, it doesn't exactly mean that it's a continuation. The Coil that you see now is just the start, so when you look at it with the belief that the Coil is similar to the entire levelling experience through dungeons, the first few turns are in similarity of the first few dungeons, placing wise. As the Coil expands and we venture further into it, I'm sure we'll begin to see larger and grander things, along with the Crystal Tower when that comes out.

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

And this is why games suffer from Spectacle Creep

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So? We're not savages playing in 1990 here on pen and paper.

Plus, this is an MMO with the JRPG sub-genre. This isn't a Western RPG where your character has a choice in how he or she acts: to the Japanese, you either save the world while looking badass doing it or GTFO

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Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/..._in_tights.gif

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To Funny and your sig video is funny.