Several threads have come up since August that revolve around a central issue: What the hell does it take to quality as a Warrior of Light? Legacy? Tattoo? Alternate story flags? How does this affect cutscenes? Are those touched by the Mothercrystal in 2.0 second-rate?
I'd like to clear this matter up once and for all.
My theory is as follows...
This is all a matter of convention and misunderstanding. The lore of the game is artificially organic. It's not systematically laid out despite being systematically crafted; it is meant to bear the illusion of having gone through stages of real-world development. Take, for instance, the bestiary. The diverse biology of mobs in the game was systematically designed by lorecrafters, but our bestiary was clearly written from a top down perspective that shows people were much more ignorant "when it was written" than we are "today." That's why the label "Coblyn" can apply to a genus, a species, and a unique mob.
The term Warrior of Light is "understood" differently by different NPCs at different times, but the label itself has a very specific, static meaning - and a lot of people are mistaking what that meaning is. In order to make everything clear, let's use some temporary labels.
The First Wave
[Player Characters] of Version 1.0 who were awoken by Hydaelyn between the Years 1562 and 1572 of the Sixth Astral Era.The Second WaveMeteor Survivors
Members of the First Wave who did not complete the campaign against Nael van Darnus. (Get Tattoos)
Twelvesblades
Members of the First Wave who interrupted the Meteor Project by destroying the Lunar Transmitter, leading to the Battle of Cartenau where they were sent into a rift by Louisoix. (Get Tattoos + Alternate Story Content)
[Player Characters] of Version 2.0 who were awoken by Hydaelyn in Year 5 of the Seventh Umbral Era.
In the game's Lore, there seem to be three possible reasons why NPCs don't recognize you.
- You are a member of the Second Wave, a new adventurer that has no reputation of note.
- You are a Meteor Survivor that did not build a noteworthy reputation in 1.0.
- You are a Twelvesblade that was cast into the rift by Louisoix tapping into the power of Althyk at the Battle of Cartenau.
Now that we've got all that out of the way, let's address this whole Warriors of Light thing again. When NPCs try to remember the Twelvesblades, they cannot make out their features. They are a silhouette against the haze. For this reason, the NPCs have taken to calling them the Warriors of Light. Remember, if you didn't start the game with the alternative introduction, coming out of the rift, you were never sent into the rift. Either you were not at Cartenau at all, or you were weren't with Louisoix at the end. You are not a hazy memory.
One way to take this is that only the Twelvesblades are Warriors of Light, but this is not the only way it can be taken. The only reason the Twelvesblades were able to achieve what they did is that they were chosen by Hydaelyn.
Key Point:
Every Twelvesblade was chosen by Hydaelyn, but not everyone chosen by Hydaelyn is a Twelvesblade.
Therefore, another reading would be that all of Hydaelyn's chosen are Warriors of Light, but that the Twelvesblades, who were the only Warriors of Light known to the NPCs so far, are the ones who inspired the term in the eyes of post-Calamity NPCs. This fits much better with the franchise narrative set by Final Fantasy I.
For evidence, let's look at two scenes of the game.
First, we'll examine a quote during the quest Lady of the Vortex. In this scene, Cid reflects on his amnesia. He can't even remember when he first donned the goggles that cover his "third eye." In order to ease his frustration, you use the power of the Echo to elicit the memories from his soul. As he watches them replay, he recalls more and more about his past. As the memory of donning the goggles returns to him through the power of the Echo, represented by a bright light, he sees through it to the source of this gift - the player - who symbolically hands the goggles (the memory) to him, thus breaking the wall in his mind and allowing him access to his full identity.
If you are not a Twelvesblade, the scene ends after the black text. If you are a Twelvesblade, he refers to you by the NPC's convention of the Warriors of Light - one who was sent into the rift and, for most, beyond their ability to recall.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cid
Next, let's look a quote from the final scene of The Ultimate Weapon. You have just defeated the Ultima Weapon and are attempting to outrun the explosion while Gaius, who has sacrificed everything and failed, embraces the flames. Hydaelyn reaches out in response to prayers that the player be saved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydaelyn
This wording is used regardless of context.
Hydaelyn's chosen are all the Warriors of Light. The ones who disappeared from Cartenau are just the ones who inspired the term in the eyes of the NPCs.
While we're on this topic, this also ties into a separate issue that players should be aware of. The game is systematically crafted so that all of these labels - First Wave, Meteor Survivor, Twelvesblade, Second Wave - lead to the same ending point: The Player is The Hero. You're not just a Warrior of Light, you are the central figure in the narrative. You are the Champion of Eorzea - there are just lots of ways that you could have come to be this way. This is why the Second Wave are not Second Rate. You are still The Champion, you just came to be so in a different way.
Explaining the Term "Warriors of Light"
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11-01-2013, 07:34 PMAnonymooseExplaining the Term "Warriors of Light"
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11-01-2013, 09:09 PMHiirNoivl
Warriors of Light are any Character Created in 1.0 that completed the quest "Living on a Prayer." The Character does not have to be on a Legacy account.
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11-01-2013, 10:13 PMAnonymooseYes, when, say, Baderon, uses the term - that is what he means. What I'm getting at is that there's more to it and that this part is independent of "you beat United We Stand" (confirmed by Camate as the trigger to experience the alternate story). In The Ultimate Weapon, the Mothercrystal refers to you as a Warrior of Light regardless of when you started the game, regardless of what quests you did in Version 1.0. I double checked Legacy / New Player streams on YouTube/Twitch to be sure that regardless of how Cid's interaction went, this is what she said. Unless I've missed something somewhere, this clears up a lot of confusion.Quote:
Originally Posted by HiirNoivl
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11-01-2013, 10:24 PMHiirNoivl
Oh yeah sorry, I totally misunderstood. (I blame a coffee shortage.) I think you become a Warrior of Light after collecting all the Crystals of Light. :)
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11-02-2013, 11:41 PMAndaeron
I feel like there is a fourth type of character, like my main. Whereas my alts are solidly Meteor Survivors (who barely broke 15 on any class), my main did the entire story up to Futures Perfect. He's not exactly a scrub, but did not take part in the final assault. So that explains clearly why I don't have the the void entrance, but I am baffled as to why NO ONE remembers or shows not the faintest glimmer of recognition. I think the only reasonable explanation lies with the Echo. When whatever happened to Bahamut happened, it "broke" the Echo, and anybody who had it (which is the power to see others' memories) was erased from others' memories. I think that makes it the perfect backfire, if you will. The only problem I see with that theory is that Minfilia herself has the Echo as well, so she would also have also been erased from others' memories.
The only other explanation I have is that there are a couple dialogue bits that I get as a non-Twelvesblade that are along the lines of, "Have we met? No, never mind." But this reeks of lazy writing, especially when I know that Second Wave characters get the same messages, meaning that it has nothing to do with the earlier bonds my character forged. I'm trying to reconcile this as I work out what my character has been doing in the five years since the Calamity, but these are the only ideas I have. -
11-03-2013, 10:21 AMAlberel
The entire concept of the Warriors of Light in previous games was that they fought to protect the crystals of light. I always interpreted it that way in XIV as well. It's not about what the player's character has or hasn't done; it's about what they fight for. If Hydaelyn beseeches you to fight for her then you are a Warrior of Light.
The fact that Hydaelyn and Minfillia both outright call you by the title should make it pretty damn obvious to be honest. Anyone that got confused about it simply wasn't paying attention to dialogue. -
11-04-2013, 02:42 PMKimimiAvesta
The reason I'm so salty about the issue is because, as far as I've ever seen, there was no indication that a specific quest needed to be completed in 1.0 to earn the alternative ARR story until after ARR came out :/
If anyone can provide pre-1.0 shutdown evidence to the contrary please share a link, I'd love to be wrong on this :)
Edit just to clarify - IIRC there was a "letter" on the old Lodestone website calling *all* able adventurers to Cartenau, not just those that had destroyed the Lunar Transmitter. I'm just not understanding the distinction (in game or out) between those that fought at Cartenau and did destroy the transmitter and those that fought but didn't. From my perspective I was able to best *two* Primals and unite Gridania/Ul'dal/Limsa to a common cause... but then ARR says that rather than go with everyone to the fight-or-we-all-die battle I... went away? Had a holiday? Got scared? Then I decided that when the coast was clear I thought I'd pop back on a carriage and literally act like nothing had happened?
This is doubly confusing because I *was* whacking Imperials right up until the servers went down (well, when the servers weren't giving me connect/disconnect errors anway), so I'm really struggling to reconcile what I did do with what ARR says I did. -
11-04-2013, 05:49 PMCatapult
You may have participated at Cartenau, but did you have a reputation? Did you become a Lieutenant and knock out the backbone of Garlemald's key strategic establishment? Did you earn yourself recognition on a level to be assigned leadership roles and inspire the minds of hundreds of lesser-ranking people who looked up to you?
Did you give the GC leaders and Tavernkeeps enough of a reason to think explicitly of you when all hell broke loose?
I think that is the angle that matters. -
11-05-2013, 05:47 PMPapesseLudovique
An NPC explains that they're called 'Warriors of Light', because those who try to remember the faces of the heroes from The Battle of Carteneau always see the warrior's faces shadowed by a bright light behind them. Even those who fought alongside the Warriors. Thus, the people came to call them Warriors of Light.
Every character made is a Warrior of Light, and participated in the past events (as far as the story goes). As indicated with Cid's flashback scene aboard the airship.
Players who participated in said events simply get a special tattoo, and alternate intro.
But all players' characters are the heroes from Carteneau, sent five years into the future. No one recognizes us, because of the magical "Warriors of Light" effect. Which is done simply as a plot device to make each character equal. That no player is more special or legitimate, than another. -
11-05-2013, 06:19 PMEnkidoh
Actually that's not totally correct - the developers confirmed a while ago that only 1.0 players who attained a certain point in 1.0's storyline (ala, the destruction of the Lunar Transmitter), were actually the original Warriors of Light (symbolized by Derplander and his party in the 'End of an Era/New Beginning' trailer), who had been at Carteneau and who were sent forward five years by Louisoix.
Only these players got the special 'Legacy' opening where they materialize outside their starting nation and walk in through the gate instead of arriving on a chocobo carriage with a stupid merchant, and are frequently mentioned by NPCs as 'being familiar', and who are eventually remembered as the 'original' WoL by the end of the game.
Everyone else who had played 1.0 had no explanation as to how they survived - it was just handwaved away that somehow they did. All their the story dialogue is the same as that a newly arrived adventurer to Eorzea gets, there is no difference at all, regardless of how far they got in 1.0's storyline - npcs who should remember them never do.
Having said that though, by the end both 'non-original Warriors' 1.0 characters and new characters are regarded as new Warriors of Light anyway, having attained the same level of greatness that the originals did, making the arguement irrelevant anyway. -
11-05-2013, 09:17 PMAnonymooseI'm interested in whether or not this can even be true. The heroes at Carteneau were sent into the time rift by Louisoix at the end of the battle. The alternate introduction is the player coming out of said time rift. If every character ever made was supposedly at Cartenau... shouldn't every character's story begin coming out of the rift?Quote:
Originally Posted by PapesseLudovique
Just to make sure I'm not reading it wrong - a more elaborate way to arrive at the same conclusion, yes?Quote:
Originally Posted by Enkidoh
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11-05-2013, 10:08 PMajxThis is not true, I creatd a new character in a new world and the scene did not end at the black text , I had the whole text .Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymoose
Secondly , almost every important NPC in this game seems to think im familiar , so its not one of the exclusives the twelvesblade were meant to have . -
11-05-2013, 11:26 PMAnonymooseThat's really strange, actually. I sought out a bunch of YouTube and Twitch channels to make sure the comparisons were right and I've seen it end after the black text many a time, now. [Example Here] Could there even be a different trigger for it? Or could it be that your account has glitched flags? People getting cutscenes they weren't supposed to, or not getting the ones they should, was a common complaint in open beta...Quote:
Originally Posted by ajx
Maybe someone will confirm or deny all this someday and lay it out for us... >.< -
11-06-2013, 01:01 AMsaber_alterthat text might just be exclusive for those with legacy accounts. i am not legacy, and i did not get the text after.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymoose
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11-06-2013, 01:11 PMRannieQuote:
Originally Posted by Anonymoose
hmmm I created two new characters (well one was a cancelled character from 1.0, that never did United We Stand, and the other is a brand new one) While my new characters have the Legacy Tattoo they don't get the "Hey you look familiar" they get more of the "Hey did you just...." figuring this is them asking if we just used the echo...now i haven't gotten up to Cid yet on my alt characters but when I did get to the Waking Sands with Minfilia I didn't get the whole "Aye I remember you speech" I got the whole newbie speech from her
and with my Rannie I got the whole original warrior's of light cutscenes. -
11-07-2013, 09:45 AMToranja
If Hydaelin chooses you, you are a Warrior of Light. NPCs take a awhile to realize this, because there isn't a flashy sign above your head indicating your status.
I think this is the OP's point and something we can all agree on.
Plus, you are a Warrior of Light solely because you were chosen. You can do the things you do, because Hydaelin is watching over you, aiding you. -
11-11-2013, 05:57 AMBlueMage
To be a Warrior of Light, you have to be a Lv50 Warrior.
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11-12-2013, 05:27 PMVisRalis/closeenoughQuote:
Originally Posted by BlueMage
^3 -
12-11-2013, 07:43 PMChaotic_DarkfaeQuote:
Originally Posted by ajx
Necroposting a bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymoose
I think the system was broken for a time. I remade Legacy characters at two different points. Both were what Anonymoose terms Meteor Survivors. The first was remade in Beta 3, and retained her tattoo and the "Hey, you seem familiars"; the second was remade post-launch and did not retain his tattoo but retained his "Hey, you seem familiars" but I had a second remake who did retain her tattoo and "Hey, you seem familiars". I have a couple of friends who had 1.0 accounts and had 1.0 characters and etiher restarted with new characters or made alts who got their tattoos and got their Twelvesword dialogues.
Either it's super crazy bugged, or it was briefly account based. -
12-11-2013, 09:23 PMEnkidoh
Oh, I have no doubt that SE really did plan to treat all 1.0 players as 'Warriors of Light' originally, because that's all that was ever stated on the subject - Yoshi just said that 'all 1.0 players would get a special storyline', and didn't clarify or elaborate on it - however due a bug that could not be fixed in time, the game couldn't differentiate between 1.0 players from new players.
During Phase 3 of the Beta when this bug was first apparent, I didn't get the Legacy opening and no extra dialogue from npcs who should have remembered my character, however, one npc who ironically stated they did recall my character yet shouldn't have because he had never met her at all in the first place was Rahbaun during the level 15 main story 'envoy' quest (possibly because my character was a GLA at the time she spoke to him in that quest). This was fixed in Phase 4 however, where he didn't have the extra dialogue, so it basically showed that it was a bug after all that SE ultimately couldn't fix in time.
So SE probably just settled on the Lunar Transmitter battle as the cutoff point for Legacy opening requirements and retconned it accordingly. It's unfortunate, but it's not too big a deal.
In any event, as has been already stated, it's irrelevant anyway asby the end all players are regarded as Warriors of Life, regardless of whether they destroyed the Lunar Transmitter in 1.0 or not, or are adventurers newly taken to the 'path' - all are referred to in the ending of the main scenario by both Hydaelyn and the leaders of the Grand Companies as a 'Warrior of Light reborn', and as their 'Champion'. -
12-11-2013, 11:17 PMUrielparadox
The opening scene for a new non-legacy character is the final battle and loux teleporting everyone out then it opens to you in a cart with a suspicious merchant(same merchant no matter what city/state you start in) and you not knowing where you came from. This to me always symbolized my character coming out of the void. I do not have a legacy account and most story npcs said I looked familiar and my Cid scene does not end after black text. I got my account 3 days after OR. Even the twins make a comment on how they believe the leaders to be not so truthful when using the phrase warriors of light, when they say that they don't remember you, as such deeds are not that easily forgotten.
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12-12-2013, 12:03 AMArkhamNativeSadly there can be no positive interpretation. Look at the facts: Such a character was a ranking member of a grand company who worked closely with the honored and elites to help all of Eorzea, yet was not at the Battle of Carteneau. Remained in Eorzea after meteor, but did not participate in the rebuilding, or do anything of note for 5 full years. Did not continue at the grand company or path of the twelve. Is forgotten by everyone they helped or saved, including those with the Echo, which had nothing at all to do with the Louisoix/Carteneau haze. Apparently these characters even got someone to give them a tattoo to make them look like they had been sent into the rift.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andaeron
Regardless of what is done in ARR, the above facts are part of such characters' past. SE can't give them a better story than those who completed the End of Era missions, so there's really not much more to it. I call it the "drunk and homeless" scenario because that's the closest thing that fits the facts. (Thanks, devs...) -
12-12-2013, 02:05 AMAnonymooseI feel really bad about having to tell you this... but I don't that is what's happening in the merchant introduction at all. Take a look at the "Twelvesblade" intro here and you'll see a very clear teleported out of the fold animation. Yes, we both see the vision of the ascian shown to us by the Mothercrystal, but if your introduction consisted of a merchant, what you see is that you are a normal, run of the mill adventurer sleeping mid-travel and this is when Hydaelyn awakens you to your cause. It was much the same in Version 1.0 - the player character was en route to a city, nodding off, and the next thing you know - BAM. Visions from the Mothercrystal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Urielparadox
If you had a merchant introduction, but Cid talked about the floating island with you... that sounds like a glitch. If you were sent into the fold, you would appear in a column of light in the same location as the New Beginning video and you would skip the merchant sequence entirely. You'd just automatically find your way back home, where you've been a thousand times. -
12-12-2013, 01:04 PMEnkidohThat merchant is actually not the same person in all three starting quests - they're actually three different people (they're actually brothers). Even more ironic,Quote:
Originally Posted by Urielparadox
all three turn out to be members of the Scions of the Seventh Dawn, hinting perhaps that not only do they too possess the Echo, they knew far more at the start than they were letting on - they almost definitely could have seen the player had the Echo but passed it off as 'aether sickness'. You even see all three later on at the Waking Sands, and they're there amongst the rest of the Scions in the final scenes at the Waking Sands after the end credits and the 'twist' scene with Bahamut's awakening and the Ascians.
Also if you didn't get the Legacy opening, waking up on the chocobo carriage was meant to show your character as a new adventurer, regardless of whether they really were or not (the merchant even clearly addresses you as such based purely on the starting gear all characters have to start with, even level 50 Legacy characters - as it seems to me the storyline is very much made with the expectation that the player's character really is a new character, and that 1.0 characters are just kind of shoe-horned into the storyline with a amnesia subtext to explain why no one remembers them. From the point of view of most players, the original Warriors of Light never return, or at least remain unknown - the important thing from the storyline's perspective, is the player becomes one regardless.
It's rather cheap I know, but considering how long it would have taken SE to have developed several separate storylines for those who got the Legacy opening, all other 1.0 players, and truly new players, it's no wonder SE did the narrative in this way. -
12-13-2013, 05:16 PMVelox
Ok so to clean up this whole thing, I read over the posts here and put together an awesome graph (mad MS Paint skillz yo) that kinda sums up everything that makes you a Warrior of Light.
So what we are left with is that a Warrior of Light is any person tasked by Hydaelyn to stop bad crap from happening. Warriors of Light appear at any time in the story, but NPCs refer to the ones from before the calamity (legacy) because they do not know that you (non-legacy) as a player are one as well (they don't know you were contacted by Hydaelyn, your story has just started). Basically everyone playing are warriors of light since everyone is aiming for the same goal. It is only at the end you are called a Warrior of Light even if you're non-legacy because, by then, the NPCs have acknowledged the divine path and power you have been granted, you are "joining" the ranks of the warriors from 1.0. -
12-16-2013, 11:23 AMAndaeronActually, I don't think it has to be quite bleak. I have worked out the gist of what my character would have been doing for five years, more or less. I don't actively roleplay, but I do like creating context for my characters.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArkhamNative
One thing that is never discussed in the story (so far) is the aetheric disturbances and massive incursions of voidsent that plagued the cities during the final descent of Dalamud. But just as hundreds fought at Cartenau, many stayed in the cities to defend the homeland- for what good repelling the invaders if you lose the home you protect anyway? Adaeron was one such defender, fighting in the streets of Ul'dah. After Bahamut's release and attack of course everything gets fuzzy there, but there was catastrophic damage rent on the cities, so I imagine that as a carpenter of moderate skill, he found work rebuilding Ul'dah, making tools (had to get rid of those 999 Elm Hafts somehow), and probably even working on refugee structures. Five years hence, he begins having strange dreams, and fearing the omen it portends, he heads back to Gridania to pick up the bow once more, and go back to being an adventurer. -
12-17-2013, 11:39 AMArkhamNativeNo, it doesn't have to be bleak, though there's nothing wrong with bleak.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andaeron
And it doesn't even have to be bullet-proof, or be canon. Like the Goobbue walls, which happened after final save, across all worlds, though I'm happy that the devs incorporated those into canon.
http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/9484/iq8d.jpg