Question about Stuns

Folks, what is the deal with taking one of the most important roles in a fight and relegating it to stun-bot?

I was under the impression that all classes/jobs in the DoW/DoM trees have a stun or interrupt ability, so pray tell me why parties expect a Paladin to kinda just hand around auto-attacking and whip out Shield Bash at just the right moment. I mean, are all the other stun/interrupt moves suddenly invalid, and only Paladin can stun?

Perhaps I am just not getting this, but it seems to me that with 8 players there are 8 people with the ability to stun/interrupt, and if all 8 keep an eye on the AoEs, and use their abilities appropriately, it won't be necessary for the tank to disengage their brain stem to play.

Some jobs have a longer cooldown. Our stun is on GCD so we can use it ever 2.5 seconds.
Also with DPS I would rather have them focus on killing Ifrit, avoid using their stuns and make sure the nails are down.
Once you know the timing and patterns of Ifrit you can actually use your skills, and once you're good enough you can solo tank and stun Ifrit.
I haven't solo'd tank him from the beginning yet, but I've picked up Ifrit after the War/Pld tank died and tank over half the fight while stunning.

I know it's a boring ass job, but I would rather have one person (who doesn't do much dps) focus on getting every stun then taking the chance of a dps doing it and not having their stun available because they just used a skill.

Why are you stnading around autoattacking? I tank and stun at the same time. If you're standing around doing nothing, that's on you, not the group.

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Originally Posted by CyanDvai

Some jobs have a longer cooldown. Our stun is on GCD so we can use it ever 2.5 seconds.
**snip**
I know it's a boring ass job, but I would rather have one person (who doesn't do much dps) focus on getting every stun then taking the chance of a dps doing it and not having their stun available because they just used a skill.

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Thanks for the information, though I point out that even though our (Paladin) stun is on GCD, it's useless after 3 uses. This whole stunbot thing is something that is yet another turn off to many playing Tank. Personally I'm committed to the role, but I can totally see why Paladins are unhappy at end-game. They get blame, horrible looking armor (DL) and mindless stun-botting. I guess I better learn the patters quickly and hope that people trust me when i tell them "I got this...."

Is there no utility to any of the other classes stuns/interrupts?

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Originally Posted by PessimiStick

Why are you stnading around autoattacking? I tank and stun at the same time. If you're standing around doing nothing, that's on you, not the group.

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I'm NOT standing and auto attacking, nor do I want to - that was the whole point of the post. I'm asking the question because i have been told by several end-game players that when I get to Ifrit, THAT will be my job.

As CyanDvai says though, learn the patters and stun while tanking - which is what I will do.

If you are tanking then you are pretty much a designated leader. Say what you will, that's what it usually comes down to. If you have no desire to lead a dungeon run or take charge of a group, play a DPS.

Controlling the fight is the tanks job. And if interrupting is an extremely important part of the fight, then since you are the most important role in a fight (in your own selfish words, since you can obviously kill everything just being a tank and don't need a team) you should get the most important responsibility of interrupting.

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Originally Posted by Borthras

If you are tanking then you are pretty much a designated leader. Say what you will, that's what it usually comes down to.

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Please ignore this gentlemen... Its this mentality that has caused several threads about asshat tanks already. Tanks are there to "facilitate success" not flex their tiny epeen so everyone knows they're in charge.

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Originally Posted by Borthras

And if interrupting is an extremely important part of the fight, then since you are the most important role in a fight (in your own selfish words, since you can obviously kill everything just being a tank and don't need a team) you should get the most important responsibility of interrupting.

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Learn to read and not patronize. I said "one of the most important roles", name me another role other than healer that will result in a wipe if they fall.

There's only a few fights where you're reduced to Stun-Bot as a PLD. Most everything else you'll be MT unless the other tank (in 8 mans) has better gear than you.

I don't do Ifrit much anymore, so I'll only MT it if I'm asked too and will usually just stun bot and toss in a few abilities here and there (it's a boring ass fight anyways after you do it about 20-50 times).

A quick question, little off topic but not to off...Does anyone else have trouble in the fight recently, with one stun resisting on the first half of the fight. I have done the fight multi times and seems it is in the same time frame everytime. I can be perfect on all stuns but it seems like around the forth or fifth stun in the fight is resisted. Unfortunately it has caused some people to be rude during the fight, to me or others for stunning when they shouldnt. But i wanted to know if anyone else has had this happen to them too or is it me missing the same one eveytime or another stunner in the pt? Thank you for any comments in advance ^^

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Originally Posted by Zoomie

Please ignore this gentlemen... Its this mentality that has caused several threads about asshat tanks already. Tanks are there to "facilitate success" not flex their tiny epeen so everyone knows they're in charge.

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No one is flexing an epeen here, just telling it like it is after tanking in mmo's the last... going on 10 years now. Everyone looks to the tank to know every fight, know the correct positioning and how to react to situations. I'm not saying they are the only person who CAN, I'm saying in DF groups and pugs, that is the case most of the time. And if your success hinges on controlling an aspect of the fight in which you have the tools to facilitate it, it very well should be your primary responsibility - protecting yourself and the group.

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Originally Posted by CK11

with one stun resisting on the first half of the fight. I have done the fight multi times and seems it is in the same time frame everytime.

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I've done the fight dozens of times with perfect stuns, the only time I usually get resisted during the time frame you're talking about is with melee dps (drg / mnk)
Often times they have a skill that has a stun effect in their rotations and they forget to not use it.
Runs where I'm with mostly caster classes I've never had that issue.

Kosmos, You don't have everyone stun because if everyone stuns too much, the stuns won't work. Up to Titan, you will only be on stun duty for Ifrit and Chimera so you're MT or OT majority of the time in end game.

CK11, only stun eruptions and have your team dodge the plumes. Even though stuns become resisted over time, they also have a cool down where the resist goes away.

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Originally Posted by xRitzx

only stun eruptions and have your team dodge the plumes. Even though stuns become resisted over time, they also have a cool down where the resist goes away.

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Good point, I just assumed they knew to only stun eruptions and not plumes. If you are stunning plumes then yes, you will sometimes get a resist on the eruptions.

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Originally Posted by CyanDvai

the only time I usually get resisted during the time frame you're talking about is with melee dps (drg / mnk)
Often times they have a skill that has a stun effect in their rotations and they forget to not use it.

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This is also true. I forgot about melee DPS having a stun move they sometimes use in rotations. Melee DPS that stun can definitely cause resisted stuns. So if you're only stunning eruptions and still getting resisted, ask the party to only let you stun so no resists happen.

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Originally Posted by CyanDvai

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Originally Posted by xRitzx

only stun eruptions and have your team dodge the plumes. Even though stuns become resisted over time, they also have a cool down where the resist goes away.

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Good point, I just assumed they knew to only stun eruptions and not plumes. If you are stunning plumes then yes, you will sometimes get a resist on the eruptions.

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I knew that you only stun on particular attacks to avoid the resistance issue, and not waste a stun on something that can be dodged. Having not run HM Ifrit yet, I wasn't sure which were which. Thanks to you both for the help.

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Originally Posted by xRitzx

I forgot about melee DPS having a stun move they sometimes use in rotations. Melee DPS that stun can definitely cause resisted stuns. So if you're only stunning eruptions and still getting resisted, ask the party to only let you stun so no resists happen.

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Oh, that's interesting, I would not have thought to do that, thanks!

It's called path of least resistance. People would rather use one class that can stun every GCD than trying to set up some kind of stun rotation between 2-3 classes, especially in a DF situation. Paladin is good for Ifrit and Chimera because they can singlehandedly stun every Eruption and stun Voice of the Dragon/rotate silences on Voice of the Ram with a Bard.

It's really only a couple of fights where this really stands out. Every other fight you're expected to perform normal tank duties. These just happen to be a situation where you don't *need* two tanks, but DF requires you to have two anyway (well, Chimera isn't DF fight, but people still prefer a Paladin for interrupts) so someone is more or less going to be relegated to stun duty.

I cringe the few times I've been paired up with two WARs in Ifrit, but at least half of the attempts they work out a stun rotation and it goes well. You HAVE to get off a certain amount of stuns to fill up your LB bar to easily take out the nails in Ifrit, otherwise you hope and pray you take down enough nails to fill up the LB bar near the end and the tank LB will save you.

Yeah, im only stunnig eruptions (interrupt the eruptions) easy to remember. I dont remember if i had those set ups during the fight but i will pay attention more to that. I dont feel it is someone else using the ability....it is the same eruption every time...i just hope it isnt that i have become custom to being late on the same eruption every time >.< lol Oh and curious does everyones battle info appear on the log, could i go back through and see if someone stunned?

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

I'm NOT standing and auto attacking, nor do I want to - that was the whole point of the post. I'm asking the question because i have been told by several end-game players that when I get to Ifrit, THAT will be my job.

As CyanDvai says though, learn the patters and stun while tanking - which is what I will do.

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While other classes have stuns, PLD has the only one that I can think of with a 2.5sec cooldown. WAR has a stun with a longer animation making it more likely to not go off in time and also has a 30sec cooldown so we can not get every one. Other jobs are in the same situation of not being able to get every stun, something a PLD can do.

Is it required that the PLD does it? no, but it is always easier and more reliable to have a single person doing it then a rotation (someone goes out of order and messes all up), and this is even more visible when in a pug and limited communication.

Also, Ifrit and Chimera are basically the only 2 fights in game with this stun bot mechanic (and not even fights worth doing that many times), so its not like its your roll for life at end game anyways.

Aside from Ifrit and Chimera, I haven't seen much fights where stun is that critical. Am I missing something?
I beat Ifrit in a 2 War party and it was really fun. Requires a lot of coordination and there's high risk of being out of sync if someone missed but I had a lot of fun doing it this way.

Plus on Ifrit, the eruptions are really predictable so you know when to go all out and when to slow down a bit on combos and get ready for Stun.
I personally really enjoy to interrupt skills, gives me the impression that I'm really in control of the fight and that I'm supporting my group big time.

That's why I'm complaining so much about the Titan fight, there's nothing for us tanks to do aside from standing in one place and being a meat shield. In Ifrit, we are key for interrupting eruptions. In Garuda, we are key for proper positioning and movement of the overall party. In titan, there isn't much we can do to contribute to the success of the fight.

I don't know who over-sold you on PLDs being stun-bots, but you really have to do it for 2 fights only, and that's only if you happen to be stun-bot and not MT.

As stated before, people use PLDs because they have stun on GCD, so its the most reliable, and if you over-stun (3 or more in 30s) they will get resisted. Therefore, you set ONE person to do stuns, so you know no one else will screw the pooch or over-stun, ban everyone else from stunning, and use the most reliably available stun, thus PLD.

But really, its not that bad - you'll do it a few times then not have to worry about it so much any more : D

You make/break the party with how well you can stun, who doesn't love that level of pressure and importance!

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Originally Posted by CK11

curious does everyones battle info appear on the log, could i go back through and see if someone stunned?

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Yes, you can know if someone has stunned by using your log. As already pointed out, if you are the only player stunning eruptions then no resists will happen. I can't tell you if you can see specifically who stunned from the battle log because I have a custom log where you only see the enemy's moves and status. However, I can see messages in the log with something like "Ifrit resists stun". If you see a resist message in your log, then you will know someone else has stunned. I know it's kind of an awkward way to find if someone else has stunned but that's what I do.

The one stun resisted can also happen on Ifrit when phase changes happen quicker due to higher dps. But it usually only happens once, and before nails, so it's not gonna cause a wipe.

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Originally Posted by Gourry_Gabriev

The one stun resisted can also happen on Ifrit when phase changes happen quicker due to higher dps. But it usually only happens once, and before nails, so it's not gonna cause a wipe.

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This. If he phase changes after the second eruption of a cycle, he won't teleport/charge, and the second Eruption of the NEW phase will be unstunnable. It's the only time it happens, but it's fairly consistent in DF groups.