Simple question to which I can't find the answer. Does Steady Hand increase success additively, or multiplicatively? To put it another way, does Hasty Touch become a 70% success rate skill, or a 60% success rate skill, when under Steady Hand?
The obvious test for this is using Standard Touch, which would generate either a 100% or 96% rate, but that one would take a while for me to test to a reasonable degree of certainty. This is much faster.
Steady Hand: Additive or Multiplicative?
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10-28-2013, 11:24 PMSinesSteady Hand: Additive or Multiplicative?
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10-28-2013, 11:53 PMDoctorPepper
Steady Hand increased the success rate of any move (touch or progress) by 20% and SH2 increases the success rate of them by 30%. Pretty much exactly what the abilities say.. so if you have Steady Hand 2 the only touch that can still fail is Hasty Touch which becomes 80% chance of success.
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10-28-2013, 11:55 PMSines
Not surprising, I had yet to fail a SH+ST attempt yet. Good to know for certain though, thanks.
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10-28-2013, 11:56 PMDorin
Additive.
Steady + Hasty = 70%, Steady + Basic = 90%, Steady + Standard/advanced = can't fail. -
10-29-2013, 03:33 AMOrganizationXIllUnless it has been changed since release week, this is not true. (No patch notes mention a change) I had a Standard Touch Fail with Steady Hand. That's 80% + 20%? So, according to you, it didn't happen?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorin
With Steady Hand I:
80% + (80% * 20%) = 96%
With Steady Hand II:
80% + (80% * 30%) = 104%
TL;DR - Multiplicative. Steady Hand II makes most skills over 100% chance, but it isn't added directly on top. -
10-29-2013, 03:41 AMHECUnless you can prove that with screenshot / video I don't believe you - I've had thousands of crafts without having this failed even ONCE! It's definitely Additive.Quote:
Originally Posted by OrganizationXIll
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10-29-2013, 04:17 AMOrganizationXIllJesus. Fine. I will turn the chat spam back on and do a couple hundred Touches for you. Keep in mind this happened 3 days after release and if I can't duplicate, then I will concede.Quote:
Originally Posted by HEC
Also, keep in mind that in your thousands, you probably used Steady Hand II for at least half of them. Which is a 100% chance either way. -
10-29-2013, 04:55 AMConradus
I've done thousands of Standard Synths with Steady Hand as well, and I've never had it fail. And I know I wasn't using Steady Hand II because I haven't levelled CUL to 37 yet.
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10-29-2013, 05:36 AMDorinYeah I'm sorry but I got all my crafts to 50 and I never had a single standard fail with steady hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by OrganizationXIll
So if there is a minimal chance for some reason, it has to be like 0.001% which is the same as saying 100% success anyway. -
10-29-2013, 08:55 AMTeykosQuote:
Originally Posted by OrganizationXIll
Your information is outdated. It has definitely been additive since the beginning of Phase 4. 100% of requests for proof from people claiming it is multiplicative since then have resulted in promises that the next time it happened, there will be a picture, followed by zero results.
I've leveled up Weaver, Alchemist, and Leatherworker with a 0% failure rate on Steady Hand + Standard (Edit: Touch) myself, before getting Culinarian up.
You have people outlining macros that USE Steady Hand and Standard (Edit: Touch) for leveling. You even have people writing macros for Steady Hand II that combine it with BASIC Touch, which has a 70% success rate. Both Steady Hands are additive. -
10-29-2013, 11:33 PMTemprusofTime
I've never had standard fail on steady hands either and I've crafted all crafts to 25, and a few of them to 30. Alchemist is the only one to 40 so I don't have SHII yet.
Maybe your fails happened when steady hands runs out. I've been known to keep going after it ran out because I was distracted or just didn't notice it go away. I'm sure all of us crafters probably do that more than a few times each day. -
10-30-2013, 12:43 AMKyronexIt's additive, never had a SH + BT fail once since Beta 3 which is a miracle if it was really at 96% as you say.Quote:
Originally Posted by OrganizationXIll
I've had 98% chance of HQ fail and get an NQ item numerous times. -
10-30-2013, 01:05 AMValarian
I believe it is additive, myself, however I do recall a specific window between updates where Steady Hand + Standard Touch did fail occasionally.
I remember this well because someone had just posed a question to me asking if Steady Hand was 10% or 20% and I told them 20% because I had never had this particular combination fail on me and I had been using it a great deal in a macro of mine. With hundreds of macroed trials I felt pretty confident of that. One day I logged in, started crafting with that macro, and things started to blow up on occasion. The first time I dismissed as a fluke, but it happened to me a small handful of times that day. Once the next update hit, though, it never happened again.
I don't think people who remember Steady Hands + Standard Touch failing are wrong, but are instead victim of a bug that crept in and out under the radar. -
10-30-2013, 01:47 AMTeykosI'm pretty sure this was either Phase 2 or Phase 3.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valarian
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10-30-2013, 06:50 PMCasper
Definitely addictive.
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11-02-2013, 08:00 PMCOSMIC_RENEGADE
I have crafted thousands too and its additive. Never had SH +ST fail on me.