Which Fairy IS better?

OK Scholars decision time... Which fairy is do you think is better and why? Or are both of them equal?

i enjoy both equally(?) but they annoy me so much

i wish selene either had a lower cd on her silence or some sort of a defense buff i could put on a tank

i wish eos didn't blow whispering dawn every time i manually heal with her since i try to save rouse and her healing buff to use it in conjunction (i don't even bother manually healing with her anymore, i just place her near the tank and manually heal with selene instead)... it makes micromanaging her that much more difficult

i wish they both flew faster because even though they seem to take little damage from most aoes, dot effects tick really hard on them (firestream i'm looking at you)

anyway, i feel like they're both useful, although i hope we get fixes to pet ai sooner rather than later

Honestly, I prefer Eos. She makes everyone more durable and increases your healing output for when you might actually struggle (Pfft). But more than that, her healing output is so strong by herself that she often frees me up to DPS for most (if not all) of any dungeon run. And honestly, having 3 DPS in a 4 man group makes things impressively fast.

That said, Selene isn't utterly useless, and I use her in some 8-man content. The fact that she gives you a silence is nice, and obviously her almost-haste spells aren't terrible either.


The biggest problem with both faeries is their control setup. You more or less leave both alone, and even if you try to control them precisely, they waste a lot of spells. Selene's design allows me to waste fewer of her casts than Eos, but unless I'm in 8 man content, the damage increase she gives to the group is usually less than me just being in Clerics Stance the entire time.

I am only level 48, so I have not run any of the truly difficult content yet, and therefore lack some insights. But I have spent the vast majority of my 48 levels in dungeons and have done a fair amount of experimentation. I find Eos to be my crutch, while Selene is more of a comfort zone pet. When I run a dungeon for the first time, I always use Eos full time, to test the waters, for obvious reasons. If I find an instance to not merit the healing capacity of Eos, I switch to Selene after a few runs.

All that being said, I personally prefer Eos. I am a healer first and foremost. Yes I take pride in being able to churn out the damage - and assist others in doing more damage - when the need arises, but my job is to keep the party alive, and Selene doesn't hold a candle to Eos in that department.

I like to clericstance and dps as much as possible on dungeons so EoS is a safer default fairy to use for this if theres some random aoe catching someone other than the tank or its a DF party.
I'd like to use selene more often but it still feels like she doesnt speed things up that much using her when the group is clearing dungeon trash.
Fey glow shaving off .15sec off cast and recast is nice when im in cleric stance and nuking but spellcasting ~9% faster is not really that huge a boost for our damage. If it was boosting our overall spellcasting speed closer to 15% it would be a better tradeoff.

My biggest complaint when I like fairy swap is that 1 keybind for embrace doesnt work for both fairies because they made different icons for each fairy so its considered a different action.

I prefer Eos but admit Selene is more useful for situations where what Eos brings is not needed.

PLACE YOUR FAIRY. Even if next to you, even if you're not moving. It helps their AI "awareness". You have time to do this especially since the hotfix that allowed pet actions mid-cast.

Selene, Obey is only needed if you do not want her using her silence actions. Otherwise let her do spellspeed+, you do skillspeed+.

Eos:
Place
Steady (instead of Guard); restricts her to only use Embrace

When you need it, do:
Rouse, Fey Illumination, does Whispering Dawn on her own
Reset to Steady later (not right away; too soon and WD will cancel - cooldown not refunded)

I use this for:
Mass AoE healing
Fairy supertanking

The two uses can also overlap for big pulls if the tank is not holding AoE enmity (on purpose or otherwise).

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So why all this hoop jumping for Eos instead of just Obey? Because Obey doesn't restrict Whispering Dawn, and that's the CD that matters.

It's entirely preference! The tags healer pet and support pet are arbitrary. They both heal... ALOT and they both support! Eos makes you heal harder and Selene makes you heal faster... I would argue that Eos giving defense to the party is a support and not a form of healing. I prefer Selene because with spell speed buff she can cast 3 embraces in the time it takes for Eos to cast one. And I really notice the difference of of casting time and amount of cures cast w/o the spell speed buff and it bothers me.. Haste doesn't apply to offensive skills and abilities only. It applies to the entire general cooldown bar.

I use Selene for the most content, because of the DMG-buff. Only use Eon if I need a good amount of healing, e.g. specific boss fight. Don't forget to micromanage your fairies!

eos is for boss fight, while I use selene to speed up dungeon runs

Situational really. They both have equal usefulness in my eyes, however Selene is much more problematic to work with due her faulty AI and the dysfunctional obey command.

But I do use Selene for most things because her buffs benefit the whole party as opposed to one or two members as Eos's does. However this means I have to keep an eye on her buff timers to make sure Light and Glow are up without being overwritten. Also, as it stands her silence is just about useless as you can't readily control when she will use it.

I use Eos on spam-heal things like coil bosses where I won't have time to deal with Selene's AI, or fights where the party has to be spread out. On these fights, the healing boost is usually more useful anyway I think.

I use Eos for heal-intensive boss fights (not that there are many of these), Selene for everything else.

Selene is pretty good against Chimera since you can land the Silence consistently. I'm not man enough to try that in Coil, though.

what i do is this for trash i use selene kills stuff faster eos is for if your healing sucks during trash runs and during bosses for you can pull out those big ol heals.....

I use selene for Dungeons, the extra dps speeds things up, and the healing bonus from Eos doesn't make a difference in those situations. Primal fights / Coil, I use Eos because if you know how to use Fey Illumination properly (20% Healing bonus), then you end up laughing at Tummults or Astral Flows. Seriously one group I was in Garuda's astral flow hit for ~500, because my Succor was hitting for 600 and critting for 800-900. This is the power of Fey Illumination + Mantra (MNK's 20% Healing Buff) + Sacred Soil.

4-Man, Eos. 8-Man, Selene.

When the day comes that they allow full control over your pet, without gimping it in some regard (Steady not allowing for manual Embrace casts) then Eos will be much better in 8-man for the extra healing, but for the moment it just gets wasted.

Eos takes a stinky dump all over Selene, who is useless.

Your party will literally, and I do mean literally, kill you if you screw up static silence rotations with Selene. You leave that to the bards, warriors, and paladins. Silencing is not your job.

For those of you who think Selene's haste does anything, I suggest you actually compare how much she *actually* speeds you up. Hint, it's not what you think it is based on the tooltip.

Roll Eos, clear content, be happy.

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Originally Posted by FinagleABagel

Eos takes a stinky dump all over Selene, who is useless.

Your party will literally, and I do mean literally, kill you if you screw up static silence rotations with Selene. You leave that to the bards, warriors, and paladins. Silencing is not your job.

For those of you who think Selene's haste does anything, I suggest you actually compare how much she *actually* speeds you up. Hint, it's not what you think it is based on the tooltip.

Roll Eos, clear content, be happy.

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Useless isn't really a fair assessment.

It is possible to prevent Selene from spamming Silence. And in situations where a static silence rotation is crucial, chances are, Eos' healing and mitigation abilities are useful, and so Selene is sidelined for that reason anyway.

Selene

With a good mix of ilvl 70-90, most characters fall between 400-500 skill/spell speed. Selene's 30% speed bonus translates into an additional average ~150 skill/spell speed, which is a 0.15 sec additional reduction. With an average skill/spell speed of 450, you are going from 2.05 sec cast time to 1.90 sec cast time: 7% decrease to action delays for half of the party at any given time. This is an average 3.5% decrease in action time for each party member, overall.

Eos

Compare this to Eos' buffs, which can be on for 40 sec every 120 sec: 20% increase to magic defense and 20% increase to healing potency. Let's be generous and say that this is roughly equivalent to boosting your personal effectiveness by 20% a third of the time of a total battle. This means you (and your co-healer) are ~9% more effective overall (20% divided by three) thanks to these abilities (assuming that the mitigation has no impact on anyone besides the healers).

Whispering Dawn's regen potency is 100. For every character it hits, the total potency over 21 sec is 700 (assuming it is used maximally for the full duration).

You save yourself from casting one Succor and your co-healer from casting their own AOE heal on the party. That's ~2.1 seconds of action time and a nice chunk of MP for yourself and your co-healer, every 60 seconds. That translates to boosting two members' effectiveness by 3.5% over the course of a battle (2.1 seconds freed every 60 seconds). Plus, the MP is a nice bonus for intense situations.

Results

So how do Selene and Eos stack up? [this is assuming a full party of 8]

Selene's bonus is a flat 3.5% increase to effectiveness (i.e. decrease in action delay) over the course of a battle for the entire party.

Eos's buffs increases both healers' effectiveness by 9%. Since healers are only 2 of the 8 total members, this boosts the party's overall effectiveness by ~2.2%. Whispering Dawn frees healers for one GCD each every 60 seconds, increasing their effectiveness by 3.5% and the party's by ~0.9%. This totals Eos' benefit to ~3.2% over the course of a battle for the entire party.

Conclusion: Selene and Eos are roughly equivalent, except that Selene acts by reducing the party's action time, whereas Eos acts by freeing the healer's action time.

Benefits of Selene: Bonus is given not just to healers, but to tank and DPS. Tank can build enmity and use abilities faster, and DPS can put out more damage more quickly. In fights where tank action delay is critical, or is a DPS check, it may be favorable to use Selene.

Benefits of Eos: More effective heals and assistance of Whispering Dawn means healers are more free to move around, top off party members, or even DPS. And, as we all know, a dead DPS does no damage, and Eos' abilities can prevent K.O when you are struggling to keep party members alive. Eos also grants a significant savings in MP, so she is useful in content where MP is an issue.

Conclusion: The mantra of Selene on trash, Eos on difficult content is not sufficient. Both fairies have their uses in all types of content are almost always interchangeable.

it depends on what u are doing and the fights, selene its good for trash killing and eos is good for bosses

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Originally Posted by AldoVonAlexandros

it depends on what u are doing and the fights, selene its good for trash killing and eos is good for bosses

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There's a certain irony in your very unsubstantiated post coming right after the previous post.

Situational. I have not gone to Coil yet because I refuse to wear DL Body so I am trying to craft myself Vanya HQ. ANYWAY: Situational but I use Selene more often. With the content I frequent right now I use Eos on HM Garuda and Titan and Selene for everything else.

I mostly prefer Selene. (Content prior to Coil, was not there yet)

Her Buffs improve the whole party damage, so fights are over faster. Sure, I need to do more healing myself... but duh I am a healer. And contributing to DPS is better done by improving the whole party output first. Sure, if I dont have to heal that much I also contribute to damage myself... but its always smarter to give Tank and DPS an edge to their damage first.

I only use Eos in healing-intense battles depending on the group setup and gear-status.

Selene is better for trash because trash doesn't matter. You could go without a fairy for trash. Why are trash mobs a part of people's arguments?

If you're doing end game content you use Eos. Period.

If your FC needs Selene's silence for things like turn 2 you need to find a new FC.

If your group needs Selene's dps boost your group has derp dps.

If you're placing Eos near the tanks then when she blows whispering dawn the people who need it (tanks) will be getting it. For things like Titan if you place her right behind the boss whispering dawn will cover the whole raid - or close enough.

I agree with arguments that we need to have better control over when the fairy uses specific abilities. But that's an argument against fairy mechanics, not against using a specific fairy.

Eos everytime.

Manual command Rouse, Fey Illumination, let her blow Whispering Dawn, its now got +40% and +20% healing on it, ticks for 320+ (7 ticks, so 2100+ per player/pet)

Place her somewhere in the middle of your raid and she'll patch heal whoever needs it. If a dps gets hit she will patch them up, if the tank is the only one taking dmg then she assists you and the WHM. 600+ normals 900+ crits are nothing to scoff at.

I feel no need to manually use Embrace ever, I know her well enough to know who she'll heal as her next target.

Selene is garbage at least atm with my gear she lowers cast time by .10 -.15 which is like nothing... same with melee. It might be better for 24 man content or maybe when stat for spell/skill speed hit a point were selene's buff make a larger difference.

You can actually have Selene cast her buffs then hover over your spell before then after and see how much she is taking off... Figuring In GCD times with a 30 second buff so far its pretty under whelming.

Assuming Selene Gives you .10 off your Aldo spell lets say at a cast time of 2 seconds so that 1.90 cast time for 30 seconds then you figure in GCD so that like what 10 cast give or take once you figure in GCD's for a total you effectively shaved off 1 second assuming no lag ect..

If 1 second is going to make or break any 8 man situation then most likely your under geared to do the fight.

Eos is free regen rouse + regen is just too good to pass up even with 2 SCH's and yes fairy regen stacks.

Selene is the best as predetermined.


Unless you are facing a demaning Boss fight, then Eos is the best.

I only use Selene when soloing. So once I got to 50...I never use her.

Tho now that I've read some of this thread, I figure I might try using Selene during trash on dungeons.

Mostly, I set up a bunch of nice keyboard marcos to control Eos and am too lazy to set the up for Selene as well. Tho I do think Selene is prettier.

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Originally Posted by Alindra

I only use Selene when soloing. So once I got to 50...I never use her.

Tho now that I've read some of this thread, I figure I might try using Selene during trash on dungeons.

Mostly, I set up a bunch of nice keyboard marcos to control Eos and am too lazy to set the up for Selene as well. Tho I do think Selene is prettier.

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Dont fall into the trap she is still crap

To me, all those scholars that run with eos behind them all the time are the terribad, garbage, crap.

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Originally Posted by MagoArcano

To me, all those scholars that run with eos behind them all the time are the terribad, garbage, crap.

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And those who cant do basic math are more crap

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Originally Posted by Solduios

Dont fall into the trap she is still crap

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When in a dungeon will you need a healing boost? You don't, plain and simple, the dps boost from Selene is much more effective than the unnecessary healing of Eos. In Titan, Eos is simply amazing, all her abilities perfectly suit the fight. In Coil there is times when Selene is better than Eos, and it's not like it is hard to swap between the two.

I haven't healed any 8-mans yet on my scholar, but so far I've found Selene to be the choice in trash. I use Eos in all boss fights in case there's a "oh crap, everything's going downhill!" -moment where she can cover up for my derping. But I'll probably try Selene in 8-mans after reading this topic. :)

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Originally Posted by ReviiLagoon

When in a dungeon will you need a healing boost? You don't, plain and simple, the dps boost from Selene is much more effective than the unnecessary healing of Eos. In Titan, Eos is simply amazing, all her abilities perfectly suit the fight. In Coil there is times when Selene is better than Eos, and it's not like it is hard to swap between the two.

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The dps boost is so small it barely matters in 4 mans....

As far as Coil idk only done turn 1 so far and so heal intensive you need eos.

Tbh I think Selene is really meant to shine in 24 man content were you get more bang for your buck ... even 8 man the dps boost Selene provides is pretty small.

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Originally Posted by Solduios

The dps boost is so small it barely matters in 4 mans....

As far as Coil idk only done turn 1 so far and so heal intensive you need eos.

Tbh I think Selene is really meant to shine in 24 man content were you get more bang for your buck ... even 8 man the dps boost Selene provides is pretty small.

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http://www.reactionface.info/sites/d...4029819767.png

My Fairy Godmother is the best

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Originally Posted by Solduios

The dps boost is so small it barely matters in 4 mans....

As far as Coil idk only done turn 1 so far and so heal intensive you need eos.

Tbh I think Selene is really meant to shine in 24 man content were you get more bang for your buck ... even 8 man the dps boost Selene provides is pretty small.

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At this point in dungeons I don't heal during trash mobs unless its a speed run. I dps and just let Eos heal - and most of that time Eos is on steady and only using Embrace anyways. So I may as well see if Selene gets us through a teenie bit faster.

At this point, even a teenie bit faster will make me happier, I'm so tired of doing AK and WP....

Depends on the dungeon and situation.
Do we need more Dps with support from Selene? Or do we need more heals from EOS?
I love the equally but my friends say EOS is like a goodie girl and Selene is the hardcore chick with a bunch of unmentionable variables.
So they'd rather do selene over eos. :< Poor EOS I still love her.

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Originally Posted by AunaYuuki

Depends on the dungeon and situation.
Do we need more Dps with support from Selene? Or do we need more heals from EOS?
I love the equally but my friends say EOS is like a goodie girl and Selene is the hardcore chick with a bunch of unmentionable variables.
So they'd rather do selene over eos. :< Poor EOS I still love her.

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I end up referring to Selene as the Crack Fairy to people who can't tell them apart.

There's been zero confusion over that description so far.

Selene is ~ALWAYS~ better than Eos.

Let's do the math. Assuming it's an 8 man run with both you and the WHM using Physick/Cure for 1000 HP, and we are going over 2 minutes. For the purposes of this, we are worried about tank healing, and I'll explain why after. To make it clear, I'm using a 2 minute interval since Eos's buffs are up for 20s every 120s. Since Selene's are on a 30s cooldown, the Spell Speed buff will be up for 60s total over the 120s trial.

Selene: Fey Glow shaves .15s off my GCD, and is up for 60s. Over that time, the decreased GCD gives me the equivalent of four free actions. Assuming both me and the WHM use all 4 actions on heals, that's a roughly 8000 increase in HP.

Eos: Fey Illumination is up for about 8 actions over that 2 minutes. Assuming you and the WHM use every action for a heal, it's 200x16 for 3200 added healing. Assuming a 650~ Embrace, that's another 1040 healing done. Two Whispering Dawns will heal for about 4200 overall. Adding them up, using Eos gives you an extra 8450 healing on the tank over two minutes.

So, using Selene means that your tank will receive 450 HP less every 2 minutes compared to Eos if you maximize each buff for healing.

Of course, realistically, we know this won't be the case. Lots of that HoT healing will go into overheal (especially if the tank is topped off), and heal-bombing the tank with FI up like you must to maximize it's gains means that any time spent casting anything else, or any overheal, makes Selene's buffs more attractive.

So, accounting for overheal, Selene is marginally worse to significantly better at tank healing than Eos. When it comes to MT healing, this pretty much makes them a wash, if not giving Selene a slight edge thanks to her giving you more opportunities to do other things besides heal bomb.

But what else do they bring? Well, Whispering Dawn does hit the whole party, but is about 2000 HP regened over 20 seconds. I can't think of scenarios where that's particularly useful. What situations are there where mechanics are causing party members to take damage that doesn't need to be quickly healed by a higher potency spell, or can be delayed in healing until there's less pressure on the tank? Maybe ADS's Vacuum Wave? But, realistically, it's only saving you from casting 1-2 Succors every minute, and that's the fight where the skill is most useful.

Of course, trying to use WD effectively means you either can't save WD for when you need it or you need to be hitting Steady after every Embrace pre-cast on the tank (which you should be doing!). With Selene, I can slam the Embrace key constantly so the Fairy is always working. With Eos, this requires me to hit an extra key every time. Is that quality of life annoyance worth 1-2 Succors every minute on the fight that the skill most shines in?

As for Fey Covenant, it's virtually useless from what I can tell. Even if it acted as a straight damage decrease, 20% over 20s makes it less useful than Eye for an Eye, and since there's no fight where a tank or any party member is constantly getting hit by magic damage that risks your party (with the exception of some Turn 5). So, the skill is as useless as Silent Dusk.

So Eos gives roughly equal tank healing and some marginal group healing (that I can't think of a useful application of).

On the other hand, Selene will give a 3.5-5% increase in damage from your party. Additionally, if you use even one CD on non-heals during FI or end up overhealing significantly, Selene becomes hands-down better for healing.

So, from an objective standpoint, I'm not sure why anyone is using Eos on anything, much less calling Selene "useless."

Sorry for the grammar, btw. Exhausted. If there's any glaring error, feel free to point it out.

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Originally Posted by Rainsford

Reading some of these posts was painful.

Selene is ~ALWAYS~ better than Eos.

Let's do the math. Assuming it's an 8 man run with both you and the WHM using Physick/Cure for 1000 HP, and we are going over 2 minutes. For the purposes of this, we are worried about tank healing, and I'll explain why after.

Selene: Fey Glow shaves .15s off my GCD, and is up for 60s. Over that time, the decreased GCD gives me the equivalent of four free actions. Assuming both me and the WHM use all 4 actions on heals, that's a roughly 8000 increase in HP.

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Actually fey glow and it's counterpart are each 30 seconds with a CD of 60 seconds. That might affect your calculations. Just wanted to point that out. But overall you had a well thought out post. People underestimate Selene and in my opinion if you are leaving your fairy on steady to only heal when some gets below 80% you're doing yourself and your party a disservice as you are doing less healing overal. Don't treat your fairy as a "Oh Shit" button. Treat them as a partner and work in concert with each other. Until they overhawl the pet UI that means apps like synapse are a necessity to even use a game mechanic efficiently.

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Originally Posted by Zaresin

*snip*

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Sorry I didn't point it out better, but I accounted for that. If you read it again, you'll see that I talked about comparing the two faires over 120s, of which Eos's buffs are up for 20 and Selene's are up for 60s each (twice for 30s over a 2 minute period).

Sorry for not being more clear! If any of my math is brutally wrong, I hope people correct it. If not, I hope to see some more Selenes out there! :D