A support/brd solution

I posted a solution back in beta that Had some good responses / feedback. Seems like a good time to bring it up again. Please note that I do not play a brd and have zero problem with their current dps

My solution was to give support character archtypes stances that allowed them to switch between damage dealers or support.

Example: brd stances ( could not be changed on the fly, either locked while inside dungeons or on a significant cooldown. )

The damage stance would leave a bard as is dps wise, eliminate the -20 damage debuff to them and allow them to cast 1 song with 50% of its power.

The support stance would allow the bard to cast/upkeep two songs with a static 20% dps lose.

This allows support characters to fill a dps role in 4 man content 15-50 where support type characters are not needed, and a support or dps role in end game 8-24 man content as the group requires.

This system could carry over to multiple jobs yet to be released and would add that support role dynamic back into the game. Giving this option to current brds would allow them to still play the character how they want.

dps stance allows dps limit break while support stance offers healer limit break

I like and I support it. Adjustments to classes like this will make the game more enjoyable and add another layer of strategy to battles. Would be nice if SE can get creative as opposed to just reducing overall dps.

I think BRDs should be a support class. That's it. They should introduce a new ranged damage class such as Marksmen, Ranger, etc. Bards have traditionally been a support role in games. I actually like the idea of four (4) class archetypes in MMOs and the only one I can think of that did it "right" was Rift. You have the standard tank, healer, and damage, then you have the "pure" support that brings unique utility to the table (such as current BRD songs).

I would like to see some support and healing skills which orientate through TP usage for the Bard ;)
I don't mind the coming nerf because i didn't start the Bard for his damage or his mobilty. The priority for me was the unqiue support he delivers for the party :p

Can hardly call us bards right now. We have 3 songs. Swiftsong doesn't even count because regular archers can use it lol

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Originally Posted by Lecreuset

Can hardly call us bards right now. We have 3 songs. Swiftsong doesn't even count because regular archers can use it lol

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Yeah, I was a huge fan of the old brd, this is why I figured my solution would or could fix the issue. The current song roster is some what lacking for sure.

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Originally Posted by Kismet

I think BRDs should be a support class. That's it. They should introduce a new ranged damage class such as Marksmen, Ranger, etc. Bards have traditionally been a support role in games. I actually like the idea of four (4) class archetypes in MMOs and the only one I can think of that did it "right" was Rift. You have the standard tank, healer, and damage, then you have the "pure" support that brings unique utility to the table (such as current BRD songs).

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The reason it worked in Rift but will absolutely not work in XIV as it stands now is party size. In a group of 6, there are enough other people that the support abilities have a significant enough impact to be worthwhile while not being completely broken in larger group settings. By going with a base group size of 4, SE has pigeonholed any support-type class into doing comparable damage to a true DD which means minimizing the support aspect so they are not terribly OP in larger groups.

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Originally Posted by Zheri

The reason it worked in Rift but will absolutely not work in XIV as it stands now is party size. In a group of 6, there are enough other people that the support abilities have a significant enough impact to be worthwhile while not being completely broken in larger group settings. By going with a base group size of 4, SE has pigeonholed any support-type class into doing comparable damage to a true DD which means minimizing the support aspect so they are not terribly OP in larger groups.

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Which is why I believe my solution would work and add some more flavour to end game, more options for future jobs, more party diversity without changing those current players who want to dps as a brd.

Stances are a slippery slope in my opinion, people will just want their main class to have everything. Support just has no primary role in this game, so what they need to do is target the main abilities that are essential in battles and spread them among all DPS in a practical manner.

So you're going to add more things that end up with almost the same result, just less flexibility.

If you want to nerf their damage.. you should nerf everyone else so they run out of tp and mp. Then bard will be using songs. /sarcasm

The way it was designed was that bard can do good dps.. and when using support abilities, they do lower dps... which is exactly what we have. Our dps is certainly not too strong, I believe most are not opposed to a few skills having a cast time so we can't run around 24/7 uneffected.

Anyway I think your idea is pretty pointless.
Bard is dps with option to do some very minor support at the cost of lowering their dps. Which is exactly what we have. They just have a little too much mobility, and other classes have a lack of silence (or atleast a lack of a good one ogcd)

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Originally Posted by Nooblet

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1) I appreciate your opinion and feed back.

2) How does providing more options to play a support character = less flexibility.

3) I never stated once to nerf a brds dps.

4) This game ( In my opinion ) could use more party diversity, its fine if you dont agree.

5) I'm sorry you feel my suggestion is pointless.

Sorry I did not intend to come off as bashing your idea. I just felt it was pretty similar to what we have, and it would be less flexible in that you could not use support as needed. It's more flexible to be able to dps and switch to support as needed throughout an instance rather than stay 100% dps or. 100% support for the whole time.

While I think some might like your suggestion, I think it takes away the ability to support as needed, rather than support to support even when you might only need support on 1 boss out of 4.

Which I like this idea, as it reminds me of the Cleric Stance, I do have a feeling we're going to see more support based songs for the Bard in the future that may make this idea obsolete. I'm actually surprised we didn't get a song that boosted everybody else's damage or one that reduced damage for everybody. Those two songs alone would guarantee we'd never be declared OP DPS wise just because we'd sacrifice 20% of our damage for them. They'd be too useful, though of course people would start complaining because we'd still be wanted in any run (which will happen no matter how much people complain).

If bard was deemed to be a support class then I think they should have MUCH more song variety. Even if the songs are sometimes very useful, its not anywhere close to often enough. A support class bard should have songs up at all times. In EQ1 there were so many songs you needed a spreadsheet to keep track of them all. That was a quality bard. Where is the mez? Where is the lull? Where is the charm? Where is the healing song? Where is the AC song? Where is the snare? To make bard a true "traditional" support class it would have to be completely revamped. I just dont see them doing that.

To be clear - Im not asking for ffxiv to be like EQ1, but if you are going to talk about "traditional" support class then that is the gold standard.

I think the best thing to do is to make Bard an actual healer while adding a Ranger Dps second job to please everyone.

Some people want more songs, some people want more dps.

http://i.imgur.com/N23CeeR.jpg

You have to think, if Bard stays a dps, then the second job might be a healer or tank anyway so might as well avoid the ugly and petition for what I posted above.

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Originally Posted by Engineer

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Nice Idea, But I really like the idea in your sig~

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Originally Posted by Kismet

I think BRDs should be a support class. That's it. They should introduce a new ranged damage class such as Marksmen, Ranger, etc. Bards have traditionally been a support role in games. I actually like the idea of four (4) class archetypes in MMOs and the only one I can think of that did it "right" was Rift. You have the standard tank, healer, and damage, then you have the "pure" support that brings unique utility to the table (such as current BRD songs).

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Everquest had and has the best pure support bard in any game. It's melee DPS that has a ton of utility songs. The class requires a lot of skill and timing to effectively cycle through all its tools.

The rift bard was pretty well done too imho.

I would love to see the bard transition into a pure support class but it's never going to happen. Why? It's the way they designed the basic group in this game. 4 people doesn't allow there to be a support slot. You need at least 5 slots to be able to do it. Older games did this because the basic group setup was a lot larger. It seems every MMO that has been released recent have pretty much shrunk down the basics of the game because they want to capture the casual crowd. What does that mean for vets? Smaller groups and non complex classes. I think the day of the full support class is done sadly.

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Originally Posted by Engineer

I think the best thing to do is to make Bard an actual healer while adding a Ranger Dps second job to please everyone.

Some people want more songs, some people want more dps.

You have to think, if Bard stays a dps, then the second job might be a healer or tank anyway so might as well avoid the ugly and petition for what I posted above.

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I agree with this idea. But that'd have to wait for a 2.2 or 2.3 patch before we got it, as they'd have to revamp the Bard considerably.

Im sorry to interrupt the "i like it so much" spree of this thread but.... Bard in FF14ARR is a DPS class, listed as a DPS class in the duty finder, with mostly DPS skills, DPS traits, scaling with Dexterity wich is purely a DPS stat. I lvled a Bard, and equipped it to play it for what it is, and not to see it trandformed into some kind of pure support class unable to play on it own who wouldn't have any place in any 4 man parties (might have a utility in an 8 man party if we were to boost other member s dps by 33%, wich won't happen).
So no, i don't want to see my Bard transformed in any way. As i posted somewhere already, i could understand if they were to unable us from learning lancer cross skills, wich would nerf our DPS greatly... more coz of Invigorate than for B4B. In counter part tho... it would be fair to let us have acces to another class cross skills... but wich one could benefit us? no clue about it.

actually Charas all your dps ablillitys and traits come from archer all your bard abilltys are support except for rain of death but that also lowers enemys attacks. before you think this is a troll post its is ture you cant use any of the support ablillitys on archer but you can on bard so all of bard abillitys are support but one