Dear DPS.

If I mark something, like say the doctore in halitali who knocks off 10% of my health a swing(and that was on a block!). it means kill him first. not second, not third, not change the mark to the stupid imps because you can kill them faster than him. they do negligible damage, to the point where its smarter to ignore them until the end of the fight(excepting AoE threat generator use of course).

Tanks have an intimate knowledge of what's dangerous(it's kind of hitting us really hard, despite the armor, shield, axe, and reductions) unless otherwise stated("Hey guys, it's my first time here!") and will likely use that knowledge to mark the greatest threat to everyone's safety for accelerated killing.

I can and will leave, go watch tv for fifteen minutes, or just go outside and walk around the block so that I don't start developing bedsores and to mitigate the paling of my skin.

I am not saying this to try and command you to my will, just asking you to please, for the love of god, follow the damn mark. You get all bitchy if I don't mark, but when I do, you don't follow it anyways. I'm getting mixed messages here.

Love, Tank.

Hate to say this but you must of had a really bad group because how does a dps not attack the 1 first?

that sounds nothing but merely a miscommunication between team members.

Dear Tanks,

Please actually mark adds instead of just ignoring the feature..

Dear healers,

Please stop standing there doing nothing when you could be helping out.

I could go on this way but I realize me whining about the mistakes other roles make in the forums is pointless..

Dear tank,

Healing Halitali is pretty mellow. Even if a dps takes the Imp aggro, I'm pretty sure healer can heal through that. Can't we forget about class hierarchies and have fun?

Once you get to AK, are you gonna be that guy who asks "Has everyone been here before?" followed by "Afk 120 mins" when only 1 DPS did not respond?

If we wipe, do we have to worry about people being upset and raging? Can't we have mutual respect and talk about things instead of just assuming the other guy is an asshole?

Love,
DPS who does not like being held hostage

Also When you use DF expect to sadly get a few bad players or new players. Try and find a group in your own server or group with friends.

Dear Tank,

Stop moving randomly after you get the mob/aggro.

-DRG

General Rule of thumb: when you Duty finder you will find one of two types of people in EVERY group.

1. The new people that have no clue what is going on and either suck or need explainations for everything.
2. The elitist jerks that do everything better than you - so you MUST listen to them when they tell you how to do your job better than you. (Warning!: these people are usually highly sensitive and insecure with their play and will do everything in their power to ruin your dungeon when you talk back to them.)

Either be prepared to put up with these people or only go into dungeons with a group of friends so you don't have to deal with it. Don't cry on the forums about how your dungeon group isn't some perfect 4 player party that executes every pull perfectly with ease lol.

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Originally Posted by khaled

Dear Tank,

Stop moving randomly after you get the mob/aggro.

-DRG

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Tanks that do the shuffle are the worst. No, I guess the ones that circle the mob constantly are, but they're less common.
There was a few tanks I came across that had to stand so close to the mob that their models were merged.
This caused the mobs to always be twitching and repositioning. Though they probably wouldn't if they could just take their fingers off the movement keys.

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Originally Posted by kasuke06

Tanks have an intimate knowledge of what\\\\'s dangerous(it\\\\'s kind of hitting us really hard, despite the armor, shield, axe, and reductions) unless otherwise stated("Hey guys, it\\\\'s my first time here!") and will likely use that knowledge to mark the greatest threat to everyone\\\\'s safety for accelerated killing.

I can and will leave, go watch tv for fifteen minutes, or just go outside and walk around the block so that I don\\\\'t start developing bedsores and to mitigate the paling of my skin.

I am not saying this to try and command you to my will, just asking you to please, for the love of god, follow the damn mark. You get all bitchy if I don\\\\'t mark, but when I do, you don\\\\'t follow it anyways. I\\\\'m getting mixed messages here.

Love, Tank.

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Which is why no pug tanks ever mark the hound lights right? Bc they do no dmg right?

It's easy to hold aggro in AK even with both DPS attacking different targets. Dunno why tanks are complaining. Get relic +1 and it'll be even easier. And no, I didn't put 30 points into STR on my PLD.

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Originally Posted by killergerms

Hate to say this but you must of had a really bad group because how does a dps not attack the 1 first?

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People routinely ignore my marks. I just put them up so I can justifiably ignore them when they pull hate.

Since when do DPS need to focus on 1 target at a time, thought we all had to aoe to the max =D

When I DD I generally attack whatever the tank is attacking, but as someone who has healed in Halitali before I make a special exception if the tank is marking to kill the Doctore first in Halitali.

Imps die in under 10 secs while Doctores take like 10x that.

I don't care if they take 10% of your health per swing (which is a huge overexaggeration).

I mean seriously, Imps may not hit for much compared to the Doctore, but if you are letting them smack you for as long as it takes to kill a Doctore it starts to add up.

I mean, what's next, are you going to tell me you target and kill the Phythons before the Mantis?

...please tell me you don't...

Frankly put if the party is killing efficiently it's not totally unreasonable as Conjurer to not even have to heal you until the fight is over.

The majority of the time I have to cancel cleric's stance and heal is because people are trying to kill Doctores/Pythons before Imps/Mantis

It seriously slows down the run.

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Originally Posted by kasuke06

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You forgot one little detail, you were in halatali, a low level dungeon. Expect a great amount of people not knowing what the hell they are doing when you enter them. Tanks not tanking, healers not healing, dps not following marks. Hell most tanks in these dungeons dont even mark to begin with, when i play on my marrauder i get asked a lot what the little signs mean.

You are lvl 40 so i can assume that you know in higher levels people generally have a better understanding of what to do.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

People routinely ignore my marks. I just put them up so I can justifiably ignore them when they pull hate.

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Exactly, As a DPS, i know that if i pull hate from a non-primary marked target, it is my very own fault if i die from it.
Although, not many DPS' realize that they have some sort of responsibility as well other than just doing damage.

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Originally Posted by hyachona

Which is why no pug tanks ever mark the hound lights right? Bc they do no dmg right?

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I can tank 247 Hound Lights on my DRG at the same time without dying.

If I were a tank I wouldn't mark them.

You ain't nothin but a hound light
lightnin all the time.

Dear Everyone, PUGs are "special" in this game. More than any other game I've played. Stop complaining about bad people on the forums, they clearly can't read anyway.

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

... No, I guess the ones that circle the mob constantly are, but they're less common.

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Running in circles prevents many casters from doing damage to them, which lets the healer get in and do damage.
Just do a non-positional combo like True/Vorpal/Full while they're running around. No big deal.

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Originally Posted by Bardo

Running in circles prevents many casters from doing damage to them, which lets the healer get in and do damage.
Just do a non-positional combo like True/Vorpal/Full while they're running around. No big deal.

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Monk. It's a big deal. I have no non-positional attacks, except maybe True Strike and Demolish (a dot).
And no, running in circles do nothing to casters. Their targeting will always follow you.

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

And no, running in circles do nothing to casters. Their targeting will always follow you.

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Then explain how I killed a level 18 earth sprite on my level 5 Marauder.

Or how I tanked the last boss of Haukke Manor on my Monk for 4 minutes straight because the tank derped hard.

Or how I tanked a Succubus + 2 Hound Lights in AK.

Or how I solo'd the FATE water sprite boss in Outer La Noscea on my Monk.


You can LOS any NPC spellcast in the game. It's so trivial it's broken.

Yeah I love it when I queue Two mages or a Mage and a brd in a dungeon that don't have to worry about positioning. Those Caster Bosses are up a creek.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

Then explain how I killed a level 18 earth sprite on my level 5 Marauder.

Or how I tanked the last boss of Haukke Manor on my Monk for 4 minutes straight because the tank derped hard.

Or how I tanked a Succubus + 2 Hound Lights in AK.

Or how I solo'd the FATE water sprite boss in Outer La Noscea on my Monk.


You can LOS any NPC spellcast in the game. It's so trivial it's broken.

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Then I stand corrected. Though I still don't think a tank should do it. At least in WP or AK.
I was pretty sure they would just turn around and cast the spell anyway. That might just be lag.
I never really tried to perfect the timing since I assumed it didn't work after the first few times.

I agree, it's obnoxious as hell, which is why I'm pretty sure no one in my FC ever wants me to tank ... ever. I like to randomly jump around and cleave everyone.

That aside, the issue you're seeing is that the spellcasts are extremely short and the mob's LOS is a full 180 degree semicircle in front of them. It's unlikely to break their LOS them on normal reaction; you need to begin moving to LOS before they actually cast the spell. The easiest way to get familiar / observe this mechanic and timing is to find a random sprite in the general zones. Sprites chain cast. Off the top of my head water sprites at Chimera and the ice sprite in one of the Mor Dhona leves.

I'm actually trying to convince our FC tank to learn the walk-through method rather than simply circling around them, because it's &&&&**#%%%%%%%%@#$$$@%ing annoying to get my Heavy Thrust on the target when he's doing it. If you walk through the mob repeatedly, you can pause for about a half second every time.

Dear Tanks,

I hope this finds you in good health.

I pulled hate on an unmarked target.

Save meh.

Love, DPS.

Dear DPS.
Please don't ignore the adds during the boss fight if the boss isn't near-death.

Dear tanks.
Please don't constantly run around the enemy you're locked on to and be wary of aggroing too many enemies to the group during a pull.

Dead healers.
Please don't use CC / damage spells unless you're absolutely sure that everyone can survive awhile and at least a few seconds after.

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Originally Posted by hyachona

Which is why no pug tanks ever mark the hound lights right? Bc they do no dmg right?

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Lol so true. I had only one tank mark the hound lights, and that was the first time I ever ran AK.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

SNIP

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Tanking running through the mob is really no problem to me. There's enough bosses (Garuda, Titan) and mobs (like the Succubus) who turn around usually 180 degrees or so.
I can work with that for flank and even rear attacks, since it's not so unpredictable and I don't have to chase the side, wait till the next flank comes around or simply lose my potency bonus.
180 degree mob turns are fine.

Are they fine when the tank does it every half second? :)

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Originally Posted by Kuroyasha

Lol so true. I had only one tank mark the hound lights, and that was the first time I ever ran AK.

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Serious question, should we be killing those first? On my first few runs it seemed obvious we ought to, but the DPS generally ignored my marks on those in favor of attacking the other mobs. So I got used to marking the other mobs first just because focus fire on a suboptimal target seemed better than split DPS only half on an optimal target.

I've seen it done both ways in Halatali. As someone pointed earlier in the thread, healing there is not hard (I've done it as a THM before) so it really doesn't matter the order. Personally when I'm marking I'd prefer squishier targets to go down first as that's less damage I'm taking overall. But DPS should always follow the marking order regardless, not based on what they think is better.

Dear Tank,

If you mark a kill target don't worry I will attack that one first and put dots on that target first.
However, after I have applied my dots I will switch targets to another enemy and apply dots to that one, then the next enemy and rotate. Or I may use rock-breaker if there's 3+ in the mob.
I will however finish off an enemy if its almost dead to make it easier on you.

I like to spread DoTs (or use rock-breaker sometimes) on multiple targets for two reasons:
1) It increases DPS and thus, while things die around the same time instead of in a sequence, it does overall make the mob die faster so the dungeon can be cleared faster.
2) It helps you hold aggro so i don't steal aggro from you. If I wail on only one target I will pull aggro off from you and onto myself and this happens frequently. By allowing you to maintain aggro on the mob as I spread out my DoTs/rock-breaker, I ensure that the group survives overall as aggro stays on the tank where it should be.

Now you may complain that you're taking more damage because things are living longer and the damage isnt being alleviated from stuff being killed in sequence. Do not worry, it is just trash mobs. The healer can heal you through it easily. healing through trash is piss easy, especially when all aggro is only on the tank instead of dps taking aggro from hating on one enemy. The only time people die to trash mobs is by getting hit by AoE which is another issue or if the tank can't hold aggro and enemies start attacking the dps or healer in which case will not be a problem because of my reasoning number 2.

Sincerely, DPS

P.S. Please learn to hold aggro on the whole mob, not just the one you marked or else they'll start attacking everyone.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

Are they fine when the tank does it every half second? :)

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Somehow I get the impression that you adore getting under people's skin.

In theory, depending on the skill of the DPS, a tank that's doing run-through on a caster to LOS them isn't going to destroy them. Lancers only need to hit back attack once, and Monks can stick to flanks if necessary.

In practice, I'd just smack the tank and tell him to shut up and take hits like a good whipping boy/girl. >;3

Dear Community,

Meow meow meow, mya meow meow mew. Meow MEW.. MEW...

Meow, Ebon

You're in for hard times if you think 10% is serious damage.

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Originally Posted by Supersun

Imps die in under 10 secs while Doctores take like 10x that.

I don't care if they take 10% of your health per swing (which is a huge overexaggeration).

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Accusing people of exaggerating how much damage they take right after you exaggerate kill times. Classy.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Accusing people of exaggerating how much damage they take right after you exaggerate kill times. Classy.

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Wasn't an accusation. Exaggerating isn't a crime or anything. I exaggerate all the time

I just know that from a healers perspective that most tanks generally don't die in 10 hits in Halitali (that or Doctores just swing a lot slower then I assume).

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

Then I stand corrected. Though I still don't think a tank should do it. At least in WP or AK.
I was pretty sure they would just turn around and cast the spell anyway. That might just be lag.
I never really tried to perfect the timing since I assumed it didn't work after the first few times.

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Pretty sure I'm going to walk through the first boss of AK to avoid a 3k void thunder everytime time he casts it at the cost of maybe pissing off a melee.

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Originally Posted by Pentt

Pretty sure I'm going to walk through the first boss of AK to avoid a 3k void thunder everytime time he casts it at the cost of maybe pissing off a melee.

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I said that running through the mob is fine. Circling is not.