So the problem is obviously too many dps and not enough tanks/healers, so I'm sure it's been thrown around that people should just level up more tanks but obviously that isn't an ideal solution.
A better solution would be to have an 8 man dungeon capable of being solo tanked. Obviously CM can be solo tanked at the moment but it's still not easy for a brand new tank to solo it, so why not just modify CM a bit, remove the adds on the bosses and increase the bosses HP and change the default queue from 2 tanks 2 healers and 4 dps to 1 tank 1 healer 6 dps.
You could even raise up AK and WP to 8 man groups instead of 4 adding four more dps. Add more hp to all the mobs/bosses to compensate for the extra dps and it would still be completed in the same amount of time as before.
Solution to long dps queue times
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10-23-2013, 01:13 AMMrObjectSolution to long dps queue times
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10-23-2013, 01:27 AMSinth
An instance with low damage bosses who are all DPS checks. 1 Healer 1 Tank 6 DPS. GOGOGO.
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10-23-2013, 01:30 AMHorg
This sounds like a terrible idea >_< this would require a ton of work that I'd rather see go into expanding the instances available to run. Contrary to popular belief SE doesn't build these instances like you'd toss together a house in Minecraft...it takes a ton of time and effort to create, QA and balance these places. Besides PRAE groups are generally 1 healer / 1 tank / 6 dps. This is a persistent problem in all games, doing what you suggest would be very little help in completely resolving the unsolvable issue.
*Edit* Better idea, make all content able to be tanked by DPS and healed completely by Pets which everyone gets access to. Solved. *Sarcasm* -
10-23-2013, 01:36 AMAggronaught
Ya lets cater to more mouth breather and window lickers.
There are enough tanks and healers, the proportion of tanks/healers you need in coil is the same proportion of tanks/healers you need for four man, making any changes will offset the balance when it comes to raiding.
why not just remove the roles, make everyone tank/dps and heals, OH WAIT YOU CAN ALREADY DO THAT, but people still want to dps. -
10-23-2013, 01:43 AMSinthSays the guy who has only ever played a tank role. Not biased, not biased at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggronaught
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10-23-2013, 01:46 AMAggronaughtContext, do you know what that is? don't selectively quote what you want to quote, you look like a bigger moron than the OP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinth
So, what if I play a tank? you can play a tank too instead of wanting to face roll on DPS and want to have faster queues like tank/heals. -
10-23-2013, 01:47 AMArchona
Solution 1: roll tank class, ???, profit.
Solution 2: pay for a geared tank or healer to queue with you, ???, profit. -
10-23-2013, 01:53 AMSinthI was saving you from commentarty on the rest of your ignorant post by excluding the "supportive" content of your statement that there are plenty of tanks and healers. If there are plenty of tanks/healers why is it that DPS have to wait 30-60 minutes in queue for a popular dungeon?Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggronaught
To address your "context":
Proportion for coil is out of balance. Guilds receive vastly more DPS applications than they receive healer or tank applications. This is easily reflected by the recruitment of end-game guilds on every world.
Stating that everyone can tank/dps/heal is ridiculous. Your solution to an inproportionate amount of DPS players is to have them change roles. So your solution is to force players to play roles they do not prefer? This is your solution? As opposed to generating content which offsets the imbalance, people should simply change roles. Right. So your logic is "stop liking what I don't like"? Perfect. -
10-23-2013, 01:53 AMMXMoondoggie
None of what the OP suggested would help anything. There are still far too many DPS to cater for even if everything was 8 man content (god no) or if it was one tank only you'd still have a long queue because the hundreds of DPS are all fighting each other for spots. Even with more spots per run still too many DPS to make the queue shorter.
And then you are reducing Tank and Healer spots simply to get your own way when it won't even help you. It's like this in every MMO because everyone wants to play a DPS role since big numbers = E-Peen and they are easy to level and play. -
10-23-2013, 01:56 AMSinthI am pretty sure DRG and MNK require the most skill out of any job in this game due to their exposure to AoEs, and the relatively complex skill rotations / awareness required to do optimal DPS.Quote:
Originally Posted by MXMoondoggie
Healers can have a hard time too, but that is typically dependant upon how poorly your group performs. -
10-23-2013, 02:05 AMAggronaughtPeople don't prefer more demanding roles, they want to face roll on easy mode role, they have to be prepared for the consequence. Yes melee does have to dodge AOEs (mnks more so than drg) so do tanks but thats not even fraction of what it takes to be a good healer who has to MOVE AND CAST, why do you think there are MORE DPS than Tank/heals in the first place? Why do you think guilds receive more dps application than tanks or healers?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinth
lol @ calling content out of balance like you know the thinking behind class balance, it is what SE gave you, now deal with it.
The audacity of a DPS calling tanks and healers easy to play while not wanting to play either is funny to me. -
10-23-2013, 02:16 AMBaymanAs to your hypothesis, I think you would be changing a leveling/tome farming problem into an endgame raid problem. Breaking the population of raiding would be much more detrimental to the games health imho.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinth
Also, if you are wort your salt as dps, I would think the invites should be overwhelming you and keeping you from using the DF in the first place. -
10-23-2013, 02:20 AMBaymanI think you a very wrong in this assessment. Healers by far have the hardest jobs from Titan through Coil. Also, Tanks have to stay out of circles, while maintaining threat, keeping our rotations active (for war) and blowing all our defensive and offensive CD's at the right time. I think the correct statement would be "melee dps have a harder time than ranged dps". To state that dps have an easier role over tanking/healing is absurd.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinth
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10-23-2013, 02:25 AMArchona
PLD is one of the most played classes...there are people playing as tank, they just don't want to queue in duty finder. A geared and knowledged tank doesn't need to queue dungeons anymore aside from myth capping (4 AKs a week) and maybe making gil, and as far as those two go, you can either join in-progress runs or make your own premade and finish the runs quicker. That leaves the small group of ungeared and/or unskilled players who have just reached level cap and are still like learning the basics and finer points of game mechanics, and they're the ones queuing in Duty Finder. The presence of these types of players even further deters the good players from queuing solo.
The reality is, no tank really feels like constantly carrying the masses of scrubby DPS and reteaching fights over and over again.
The solution is to make your own premades in Mor Dhona shout chat, linkshells, or free company. You can also level a tank class so you can myth cap easier, or simply pay a geared tank 5-10k to queue with you instead of expecting random strangers to just be your best friend forever. -
10-23-2013, 02:34 AMBaymanI find that your post scores high on the AWESOME METER (tm).Quote:
Originally Posted by Archona
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10-23-2013, 02:52 AMVeurr
The better solution to this is what most modern MMO's have started doing. Never have non-hybrid classes. Every job should be able to dps and fill at least one core position. But people still aren't going to queue as tanks and heals for pugs. They don't have to. If you are a tank or healer with even mid level skill by this point in the game you have an FC, 3-4 LSes for grouping and a friendslist full of people to group with. Yeah you might jump into a DF group sometimes. But why roll the dice when you can just form a group with people you know are good.
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10-23-2013, 02:58 AMKittenJitsu
I have a idea.... give dps classes options to be tanks. Like arcanist have option to heal or dps. I would love to have a dps soul I could switch with my glad. Also to allow stats to be changed between souls. They currently do not on arcanist...
Edit: Or make a tank friend. :P -
10-23-2013, 04:08 AMAngelwatch
Once you know the Instance, tanking really isn't that hard and the instant queues for DF are really nice. The problem is that, compared to DPS, very few people want to go through the trouble to level a tank, get the gear necessary to be successful and learn the instance from a Tank point of view.
EVERY game out there has this same issue. Tanks get instant dungeon groups, Healers nearly so and DPS have long waits. The difference with FF14 is that YOU have the power of your own destiny in your hands. You can level a Tank class (or a healer) and still accumulate points and gear for your preferred DPS class since it's one character / all classes. -
10-23-2013, 07:29 AMUser201406060804
Tanking and healing are boing. Tanking is like DPSing except you don't get to see big numbers and healing is just standing there watching health bars and the occasional ground AOE.
The only game i have seen that makes healing fun is Secret World and that's because they had a healer that healed through DPSing. (leach healing). With proper gear they actually did very competitive DPS as well. -
10-23-2013, 10:37 AMEmSixThis is one of the most incorrect opinions in this entire thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bludypoo
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10-23-2013, 11:01 AMLisotteAs someone who had to give step-by-step instructions every step of the way how to tank in AK, I can tell you it goes both ways bud. Tanks really have to lead the group; when you're leading scrubby DD's or healers they can frequently learn by just playing better and following what the others are doing, and giving outlines of the boss fights, but with tanks you can't go 2 feet without giving instructions. "Skip that group. Run past that dullahan. Pull that succu-nevermind I'll do it. Pull the boss HERE and stay HERE."Quote:
Originally Posted by Archona
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10-23-2013, 02:18 PMKocrachon
Honestly at times theres not enough DPS. My best friend and I play as a tank/healer combo, and even we have had to wait for ques. It took us 15 minutes to get into Aurum Vale...
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10-23-2013, 02:26 PMjunigleeIt took me 30 minutes and counting to queue for Aurum Vale, with a party of 1 tank (me), and 2 DPS. At least you were able to enter...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kocrachon
Granted, this was about 4 weeks ago though. I assume it'd be easier to find an Aurum Vale party now because it's now a requirement for ranking up in GC.
Also, to those who tell DPS to roll tanks/healers instead...I mained a tank all the way up to 50, and I am just able to enter Coil. Now if I want to roll a DPS, and I want to go to dungeons, so that I can learn to play my class, what do you suggest I do? As a DPS I can't get around the queue times. But I obviously want to play a different role than tanking, because that's all I have done up to now. Are you saying I am shoehorned into tanking/healing if I want to go into dungeons? It's bloody ridiculous.
Fact is very much that there's an overpopulation of DPS players compared to tanks/healers - simply, there's 5 different variants of DPS classes at end game, compared to a combined total of 4 classes for tanks and healers. Just look at the number of non-Bard DPS players who are looking for a permanent Coil party. Look at the number of melee DPS who are geared but unable to find a Coil party.
Sorry every DPS is scrubby, but did you even help them to learn the dungeons? As a tank, I try to guide my DPS step by step. What are you doing for the community? I sure as hell am going to be a scrubby Black Mage if I don't go for some dungeons every now and then, to try and learn my role, but each learning experience is a 75 minutes wait for me. -
10-23-2013, 02:29 PMgadenp
I found the best way to play DPS, it to .... grind to level 50. And play with your FC/LS(s). Playing dungeons from level 30 a few times on the way again with your FC/LS(s).
Depending of DF is really unreliable And you are in for some long long long waiting times sir/mdm. -
10-23-2013, 02:40 PMThorauku
A better solution would be revise the Duty Finder instead, something like it's not fixed with the current setup of 2/2/4, it'll not only be useful in CM, but it'll be useful in Titan HM as well.
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10-23-2013, 10:46 PMVeurr
Even changing the DF to set up parties differently isn't going to change the fact that tanks and healers do not want to usebthe DF. Too much risk for not enough reward. The only way to change this is too make it overwhelmingly more efficient/easier/rewarding for tanks and healers to run full DF groups than any other dungeons. It would have to be something big though like a voucher for a free piece of af2 if you ran 30 DFs in a week or an extra 200 myths.
Otherwise we'll just keep forming premades to nullify the risk of getting less than stellar group members. Before people jump all over the but what about community and helping people thing. Helping people on your own realm is going to reap more long term benefits than helping DF groups. -
10-23-2013, 11:19 PMMXMoondoggieThat describes some of the low level fights for the healer but later on it takes a lot more than just that. AoE's get faster and they get more frequent so you need to be able to use your skills on the run and be able to burst heal when needed. It can be very exciting to have to quickly punch in skills to buff and speed up your heals then throw out a ton of heals to keep everyone in the fight. You also need to be able to think quickly over who gets heals first and when if these sorts of things happen. Added to piles of debuffs that you need to decide to remove or not. If i wanted to be a DPS i'd play a DPS class. I just adore healing classes for the quick pace of decision making. Though sure there is the occasional snoozefest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bludypoo
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10-24-2013, 05:24 PMSylve
You can be a Tank. You can be part of the solution.
But you don't want to. So you're part of the problem instead.
I've spent roughly 25 minutes on average on my Lancer per queue, its 25 now and i have only done Hunt Log and dungeons from the moment i hit 15.
Some people just think the Duty Finder is a PPD (Personal People Dispenser) -
10-24-2013, 05:33 PMGrailer
too many tanks and not enough healers at the end game.
seems like every man and his dog is a tank these days .
I understand there is probably lack of tanks from 1 to 49 but at 50 it takes forever to get into DF as tank . -
10-24-2013, 09:07 PMAngelwatchOn average, it takes me roughly 5 seconds from joining DF to getting a group for WP or AK. The only exception is DF Titan which is, usually, healer short. Understandable, because Titan HM sucks for them. Are you talking about Ifrit and Garuda? I haven't done either of them since finishing my first Relic (got really lucky and got both Paladin swords on my first kill each so I never needed to go back).Quote:
Originally Posted by Grailer
I don't mind tanking at all but clearing trash, to me, is more stressful than bosses. Everyone has a "go go go" mentality that makes trash clearing less fun. Once we reach the boss it's very relaxing as there are very few mechanics that I need to address. Personally I think Healers have the most thankless job of them all. Nobody really notices a good healer but a bad one is very obvious. Then you have fights like Titan HM which are just nightmares for healers. Healing is not the job for me. -
10-24-2013, 09:49 PMRhainedMeanwhile id say paladin is one of the easiest classes to play, lets not pretend its a difficult class.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinth
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10-25-2013, 04:46 AMGrailerYeah its so easy to hold agro when you pull 3 groups of trash at once and BLM with relics start AOEing mobs . I almost falls asleep its so easy , flash ... flash ... zzzzzz... flash . run to next 3 groups .Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhained
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10-25-2013, 05:19 AMhyachonaLets be real here in order to get the absolute maximum out of a class dps is the most demanding. And melee more so than ranged. Sure just dpsing is faceroll but getting the max you toon can offer is not. As for "blowing my cd's at the right time". Dps have no cd's? InterestingQuote:
Originally Posted by Bayman
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10-26-2013, 03:19 AMBaymanOk, lets be real. DPS is only accountable to themselves and the AI.Quote:
Originally Posted by hyachona
Healers have the same as dps, plus worry about everyone else's health.
Tanks have the same, and worry about threat (ie the entire party) on most of the time multiple mobs and make the healers job easier/possible with good use of cool downs. You position yourself to maximize dps, I position the mobs for everyone's safety/benefit.
As to blowing cd's: Again, these are for your own benefit of damage dealing. Healers do it to balance out extra damage taken or to mitigate damage. Tanks do such to help hold threat AND to help the healers out to avoid/compensate/recover from damage spikes.
So yeah, I think you are HIGHLY over valuing your role or the undervaluing others role. -
10-29-2013, 12:02 AMRhainedYou mean its hard when other classes are not doing their job/ playing recklessly? newsflash THIS APPLIES TO EVERY ROLE.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grailer
And pulling 3 groups of trash is called a speed run, you are making it more difficult on purpose to shorten time.
Unless you are not being sarcastic which i thought u were... can never tell in text :P.