I raid to have an unique experience. Do you?

I currently don't like raiding in FFXIV 2.0 and I will explain you why. First of all, after some reflection of my MMORPG experience in past years, I found out that I think raiding is fun as long as they offer an unique experience.

I can break it down into two distinct feature sets:
1) Unique can mean that the raid itself is different every time.
2) Unique can mean that it is exciting to get rewards.

Now I'll try to explain how other games have achieved this.

MOBA or FPS games: They offer an unique experience because it is PvP based and no match will be the same (generally). So they are fun.

A MMORPG I played before, Granado Espada (very niche game), offered 100% exact same bosses every raid, but had (not anymore now, but in the past) a loot system in which you would have the chance to get great rewards. It was (to some extent) fun.

FFXIV 2.0 until being some time at level 50:
1) The raids did offer a little bit of uniqueness in boss AI, though this only holds for first few runs.
2) The raids offered enough newly obtainable loot to make it fun to do the raid and hope on nice rewards.

Now I am here, else i wouldn't be making this post, on full AK gear and a few pieces of DL and Relic (not Relic+1 yet). And I do not think it is fun anymore, because:
1) The raids offer no unique experience at all anymore in terms of execution, I have seen WP/AK/CM/Preatorium so many times now and they do not offer anything different from the first time I ran them.
2) They drop no loot anymore. I have done AK mostly and I have noticed that it was fun when I still had the chance to obtain new loot, but now there is just no chance anymore and no fun. It feels like a massive grind, and it is.

One other personal experience is that I found it fun to farm Ifrit/Garuda weapons, but once I obtained them, I dislike those trials a lot.

What do I think Square Enix could do about it?
1) I don't think we can expect to get a more unique raid execution experience. The bosses do not have intelligent AI and I do not expect that it will change, it will be getting the drill of a certain boss and then it will the same over and over again.
2) I think we can expect something here. For example I do agree that Philosophy/Mythology Tomestones need to stay, but only as consilidation reward. It would be very cool if they would add some drops that are rare to find and do offer improvements. Think about ilv65 every few runs and ilv 70 very rarely dropping from AK.

What about me? Why don't I move on?
Honestly, I cannot see myself farming for Philosophy Tomestones over and over again. It is simply not fun, so as a consequence I will not be geared in full Darklight, and it will be hard for me to continue the raiding game, namely Bahamut's Coil. Though I will do it whenever I have the chance for it.

The future:
I am interested in patch 2.1 as it will definately offer more progress paths. I opt in for Crystal Tower for sure and maybe get good enough gear to not be an extra weight in Bahamut's Coil groups. Will see what the Extreme (or Nightmare?) primal battles have to offer. But I will be capped out at some point, assuming I can progress into Bahamut's Coil, and then I think I will need to have a break from the game again. Not the ideal situation.

Now I am interested about your opinions on my experiences, and how you think about this and if it even is an issue for you at all or not.

EDIT: Forgot to mention. But as a solution to the current situation, I will try to level another class, see if I can get any of the fun back of doing the raids to progress in terms of gear. Though one sidenote is that I have free access to Grand Company gear, which is a bit lame.

I might be wrong, but I don't think XIV even has raids currently. I know that the dev team doesn't consider Coil a raid.

Before the wagon full of haters comes rollin' AK, WP, CM are not raids. They're just dungeons.

Yes there is a grind to get your darklight gear if you CHOOSE to grind it out. But the armoury system promotes horizontal progression. If you want to play only 1 class (BLM) you'd still want to lvl the two support jobs minimum for the cross class abilities.

That being said the game is not infinite. How many hours have you clocked to get to the point you are now? Then compare those hours and price of them hours to a standard game and completion time.

In my initial 30 days. (£20) I racked up around 240 hours of game time alone.

A few month before I bought a game..... let's call it "the first of us" for £48. 9 hours later it was done.

To be equivelant in price I'd have to play XIV for 4 months since release. Which even right now is sitting at over 400 hours. And by which point 2.1 lands with even more content.

Too many gripers whine theyve hit endgame. Whereas a game that costs twice as much lasts less than half as long.

Hello,

I've brought this up in different threads, that vanished, but this is what I think..

I haven't gotten to endgame yet, been enjoying the ride and trying my hand at different things. Not saying that's how you should play, just saying, but I have seen MANY comments in here about what people hate about endgame and I think I have it down..

1. There is just not enough content for hardcore gamers, and the future doesn't promise them much.

2. People hate caps on currency and the like, no one wants to get on once a week for raid day then leave.

(but if the cap wasn't there they'd have geared even quicker..with no content to do.)

I think this game reminds me of DC in some ways, weekly caps, not ever having a good amount of endgame content. Flaws, but I see this as the way MMOs have begun to go..

This game is not for hardcore players, I have said it before I will say it again. It just doesn't have enough for em and it won't in the future..

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Originally Posted by Terabyt3

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Ah yes, just so to make it sure. I am definately not a hater.
I have gotten my initial 25€ well back out of the first 37(?) days, it might very well be the best value I have ever gotten in return of my money. What does make it a little bit sour for me is that a few days after I had bought 2 months of subscription (can't buy one month here in The Netherlands), the fun started to decline. I hoped I would be able to pick up some of 2.1 on my current subscription on 14 november. But as it seems it will be coming in late December.

Though I'll definately resub in December, but I will look very extensively for a one month sub (don't have a credit card nor intend to get one), instead of a two month sub.

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Originally Posted by BlackShroudMercs

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Though the fact is that I do not qualify myself as a hardcore gamer, and neither think I am one of them. Just casually raiding my way through the game in my humble opinion, but even then it lacks the fun factor.

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Originally Posted by BlackShroudMercs

This game is not for hardcore players, I have said it before I will say it again. It just doesn't have enough for em and it won't in the future..

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I'd have to disagree. I'd consider myself a hradcore gamer. Over 450 hours of gametime since EA weaved around work, RL and other such things.
Yet not once have I logged in and though "There's nothing to do".

The problem is people want to play the game their way instead of the way it is designed.

Level another class? No I only want to play as <job> and nothing else.
Level a crafting job? I have no interest playing crafting jobs it's boring.
Level a gathering job? Again, boring. i hate it.
Raid coil? It's too hard, can't get a group, already finished it this week (turn 4 cause 5 isn't beaten).

If your answers are the red ones then perhaps this game isn't for you? Those are pretty much the 4 aspects of the game.

Class levelling, crafting, gathering and BC at the minute. You ommit any of those and you ommit part of the game for yourself.

Well I can't defend that lol, if you aren't having fun that's not something I think they can fix man.

The game kinda is what it is, you went through it your own pace and its not enjoyable for you ..think that kinda tells you it won't be later. Or it will until you tire of the new content..just seems like you don't like the game, so it might not be for you. I assumed you were rushing yourself but hey..

If you're bored, you're bored, can't blame ya, just don't think you should expect it to suddenly improve y'know?

well i play raids to learn use of my class im leveling up unlike some jerks who spam fates til 50 and they come to AK or WP know nothing how to use their classes effectively

also i find dungeons more fun than spamming fates

i find dungeons are rest time to me from fates as i reach the required LV to run them

I do instances to get gear that doesn't drop because I'm too afraid to attempt real end-game content because I know I'll get yelled at for not having said gear that won't drop.

To summ it up. The OP would have had more fun if the drop chances have been lower?

I may have another goal for him, nothing other is needed as a goal to aim for.
Try to get you 2-star-gear. Craft it yourself or let someone craft it for you. But the thing is, collect the materials by yourself. You know AK, you know how many tomes drop. That could be your goal.
You got those gear pieces? Next goal is Materia!

If you can't or won't do that, take a break. But these two goals would do it for you, for the next 2-6 weeks, depending on you coming play style.

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Originally Posted by skiwi

1) The raids did offer a little bit of uniqueness in boss AI, though this only holds for first few runs.

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Since some people like to focus on semantics, let's not say "raid" and just say "end-game content".

One of the best end-game content experience I had was World of Warcraft Ulduar. The place had encounters with a lot of variation.

First boss in Ulduar, there are 4 towers you could destroy to make it a easy mode loot giver. But you can choose to leave any combination of the four towers or all of them up, and the encounter will change accordingly with new types of adds and environmental damage, making it a really chaotic and fun fight. Not to mention it was a vehicle fight so even more fun.

Then there's a fight where there are different types of NPCs you can free who give different buffs, one of them will make a fire and if you stand next to the fire you won't freeze, etc. There's a attack speed buff mist that moves around and can be passed around if you have it and run past another team member.

The "pre-nerf" Mimiron fight. The boss had three sections, each with unique abilities and AoE, tanking that fight was the most fun experience having to position the boss while avoiding directional AoE and such, and the three sections have to die within short time of each other. Not to mention the humor in a "Don't Press" red button that activates a hard mode.

The inherent randomness due to non-fixed combinations of encounter mechanics in these fights make them memorable and exciting to challenge each time.

But nowadays MMORPG fights seem to levitate towards fixed, rigid routines so people can just memorize patterns and beat the fights. A lot of people say RNG is not difficulty, but RNG creates difficulties that needs to be overcome on the spot. Having no RNG in terms of boss attack patterns make encounters a once-off enjoyment. Granted, RNG may create situations where you end up having to rely also on RNG to avoid a wipe, but as long as it doesn't happen too often, what's wrong with wiping to some of the obscure and absurd situations? It's these situations that we later talk about and joke about.

The current end-game content lacks variation. I hope Square Enix realize this and create encounters that are not just based on gear and numbers, but on player skill and response to spur of the moment circumstances. Make it accessible, sure, but don't make it dull and boring like it is now.

So, the OP is complaining that it's a terrible grind with only darklight boots on. He has level 38 jewelry and he has a relic. It's pretty obvious he paid/got carried and now he wants to complain about the lack of challenge. Say whatever you want but I call em like I see em.

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MOBA or FPS games: They offer an unique experience because it is PvP based and no match will be the same (generally). So they are fun.

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ITT: FPS player who doesn't like to put in effort long term for gear, saying the game is too boring for him.

Uh yeah, obvious result is obvious.

Depending on how you define raid, I don't really think ARR has any yet. I just see them as dungeons. Crystal Tower I'll consider a raid though.

As for my most fun raid, that would have to be in DAoC a few days after the introduced the 3 dragons into the game (1 pre realm). My guild and some allied guilds got around 150 people together, and made our way to the dragon. We discussed some rudimentary tactics (there was little to nothing known about the fight), and eventually ended up just running towards the dragon. The moment we got in range, the dragon flew up, cast a massive fire based AoE and 1-shot all 150 of us ;)

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Originally Posted by Huxer

So, the OP is complaining that it's a terrible grind with only darklight boots on. He has level 38 jewelry and he has a relic. It's pretty obvious he paid/got carried and now he wants to complain about the lack of challenge. Say whatever you want but I call em like I see em.

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I'll just reply to this for now, since my post amount will be capped.

I 'complain' that it will be a terrible grind, hence I only have only Darklight boots, because I don't see fun in grinding for the other ones.
The level 38 jewelry is still there because I haven't bothered so far, nothing new has dropped from AK and that thing is definately on my todo list.
The relic weapon: In all honesty I have tried a few weeks ago to do Titan HM for several days, without free company and with free company, and we got into phase 5 but I went off to play Battlefield 4 beta. Then I came back somewhere around the weekend and they asked me if I wanted to join in Titan HM and so I got my Relic as I had the 900 philosophy already saved up. I see nothing strange about that, perhaps just slightly carried but not strange if you are in a FC.