@ Vorth Asterlazindril

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Originally Posted by vorthex

This linkshell is full of ignorant people who dont actually understand the game but think they do. They booted me for disagreeing with their belief that accuracy is king over other stats until you reach the soft cap, which is not completely true. Mathematically there is a point where you can actually sacrifice accuracy for damage even if its below what people call the "cap" - they dont seem to understand this. The linkshell became infuriated with me and called me a troll among other things and booted me for simply disagreeing with their statement.

So warning: Dont disagree with the masses, they will insult you and then boot you for not agreeing with them.
((( No you were booted for insulting someone who was not even online when the incident happened )))
Furthermore some of their main BLM's told me I was wrong for stacking crit over determination, and I was laughed at for stacking crit over determination.

Not all of them are dumb though, I discussed this with another guy (regarding accuracy NOT being king at all times) that is in the linkshell and agreed with me and disagreed with the masses. But be careful, they hold a lot of emotional beliefs without reason or math to backup their beliefs and get extremely angry when you disagree with them.

For people who will probably not read my post properly: I am not saying accuracy is not necessary. I am not saying that you should not come close to the cap, you should. What I'm saying is its not always KING mathematically, that there will be a point where you CAN sacrifice accuracy for other stats, EVEN IF its below what people call the "CAP". Its still possible to do MORE overall damage even if you miss more once in awhile, mathematically this is objectively true.

Dont be a sheep following the herd. Think for yourself, truly understand the game and the math behind it, dont take other peoples word for it unless they can prove to you what they are saying is true. (((Why should we take your word Vorth if you are trying to prove what you say is true)))

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I just was recently told of the incident you had in the linkshell which was even regarding me by name. One i am not their main black mage so please do not assume. I am from a very small guild and earned my reputation by helping others. I never put myself as mr. know it all, the best there is ect. I am just a regular joe who does research about his class because I am involved in End Game.

Many can do math, thats a no brainer. its easy to show stuff on paper and brag about it. But that is not the same than running tests in game , not vs a test dummy but run all the tests in places where information matters. Most of my info which I passed down has either been from the dps forums or from the ffxvi fourms as I do not do tests myself. There are many who dont just grab a piece of paper, put some numbers on it and try to /proove/ something is better. The information I gather is by people who have experience in the endgame content, go beyond their duty and do their best to inform what works best. They back this up with real game evidence.

You went off on a high horse trying to prove something you clearly had not tested /in/ game and tried to prove a point. In this endgame linkshell yes there are many who, lol and behold , run endgame content, they have defeated titan and have experienced coils. We do our best to inform people what to expect and what may be needed or beneficial to their class if ever asked.

You can go to the dps fourms and see that there are many tests up , stuff proven by ingame info and not by theory crafting. You may ask why do we say accuracy is king. Ill explain. Coils has 3 parts, I have experienced so far, that are a dps race, you are running against the clock, there is little or no room for error and one simple miss can cause a whipe. So the dps stunners decided well let me get rid of all this acc and be below the cap what can possibly go wrong , after all , all this crit n determination will make up for that ability or 2 that miss. So the stunner misses their stun on the boss = wipe. But how seriously is our dps hindered. Like i said its easy to write that i got a 97% chance to hit have a 40% chance to crit and have higher damage due to determination. which is better off than 100% chance to hit 30% chance to crit and maybe less determination. Yes on paper that extra crit rate would make up for a missed spell or two. But lets talk reality here. You cannot prove in paper what spell or ability will miss. If a monk misses his skill that will sustain his grease lightning, its a huge dps loss than you think. If a black mage misses his ice 3 to regen mana, he will spend more time having to cast the spell again, maybe lose their fire stacks thus needing more mp to cast the spell at a slower casting time because they had to move out of aoe or other reasons, this will bog your dps down big time, heck or cast firestarter and miss. Every class will suffer because of this, a tank will not gain threat which means dps can potentially pull the boss and trust me dps is riding the threat meter like no tommorow there is no soft spot for the tanks. Once in game data pops up that 3% chance of missing is a chance of a wipe.

But now lets not get cocky here. The truth is, if you do go to experience coils end game you will need to have most if not all of your dark light gear, your relic which means titan has to go down in order to even get access to coils. Also your abilities you can gain from the other classes, something you actually need to work on http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/3372177/ No arcanist at all for the heals, virus and eye for an eye, no quelling strikes from archer. These abilities help more than you expect in end game and i doubt someone would take you to a static group as is. Full darklight does put you above the hit cap and you can easly exchange darklight for crafted hq gear and rap up more points. 434 for casters is not hard to obtain. infact you spend more time trying to lower your acc for having so much.

As for crit and determination, you wanna get all the determination you can as it improves your sustained dmg. crit will well get you more crit rate and if you cannot get determination you focus on crit. However this can be a pain for tanks that are gearing up due to the insane burst you can pop out. In a span of 3 seconds I pulled over 5k dmg due to double flare crits with a firestarter in between. Given the mob it was done at died pretty quickly and we were positioning the boss to attack.
http://i.imgur.com/xjihwu0.png
As your gear improves, you will find it very hard for tanks to hold aggro even if fully geared, a crit streak will rip off aggro if a tank does not suspect it comming.

Now I will make it clear, i never said you were wrong in any way or form to get crit over determination. I clearly stated from the Info i have read it shows determination over crit. Also I was not even online when this outburst (i was told all of the talking behind my back) against me for no reason is the factor you got the boot.

Acc needed for wandering palace, or ak, heck even the primals, naw i done swimsuit runs taking a huge hit to my acc and would not miss. But coils my friend, thats a different story, that is what was pointed out to /you/. You ended up xfering and its obvious you have not experienced endgame yet to know the cold truth on why having your acc cap is important. stop spread sheeting it does not prove nothing. Everything always sounds good on paper but ends up poor on execution. When you actually experienced endgame and got proof to back up your claim, dont be looking for me, go look at the ones who been weeks if not the entire time ff14 has been aval in endgame who have really crunched the numbers and are aiding others to preform better or nail down encounters.

If everyone pointed out how wrong you were, its because high chances they have experienced parts of the game you clearly have not. you just cannot flash out fancy mathematics to prove a point. But good luck on your new server.

First of all, I have 2 pieces of Vanya (could have 3 right now have some tomes saved up) 2 pieces of Myth gear, and Relic +1.

You basically said: Blah blah Math is meaningless because it doesnt account for certain things in game. No, actually thats not true. This math will even reflect the chance of missing a blizzard or any other spell. Even with the slim chance that happens, statistically overall its possible to do more damage even if you "sacrifice" accuracy which would be considered "below the cap" *Note by default with the best gear in the game your accuracy will be very high anyways, though*

What you dont understand is the MATH ACCOUNTS for these possibilities. By the way, "in game" is based off of statistics and math (assuming it was done correctly i.e. rotation was perfect, fighting the same monster, thousands of trials)

Also, your linkshell is lying to you. I never insulted you, nor did I insult anyone. I was the one being insulted for presenting the math and logic behind stats. I did not say accuracy is useless, I said mathematically there becomes a point where accuracy can be sacrificed for other stats, and THAT is true.

I said, from dps perspective you are WRONG that you should stack determination over crit. Thats what I said, and you ARE wrong in that sense. If you are offended by this, then thats your problem - if you consider me saying you are wrong an insult then OK.

You have a bunch of idiots in the linkshell herp derping all over the place like little sheep saying OMG ACCURACY is king and they dont even understand why they are saying it, they dont even know what they mean by saying its king. Its such a stupid argument that theyre emotionally invested in because its the trend to believe and nothing else matters.

Vanya gear is not endgame bro. I can get that at lvl 1 and have it ready for 50. Having a relic run proves nothing cuz chances are you payed for your run, more so if you had the gold to buy pieces of vanya gear. it proves nothing. You continue going high and almighty with your so called math but still have shown nothing, no graphs nada to back up your claims, you expect everyone to take your word for it.

The only time i even mentioned in the ls about the info i got, which i mentioned where i got it and did not go over it in detail. Also some of the people who told me what ya said were from my free company. Ill trust my friends i have known for years over someone going on a crusade to prove stuff with just words and nothing to back it up.

Also we all know that acc is king till cap, you dont need more once you reach the cap turn 4 a blm needs about 432 acc. you do not need more. If we have been stating acc is king it is the point it is a priority over the rest till cap. after that you dont need more. each class needs a diff ammount, melee needing more than casters. /That/ is all we have been claiming. None of us ever claimed you should go all out acc over everything. we just know acc is needed at cap to ease it through coils. If you are misunderstanding thats clearly your fault there shooting the guns and not asking accordingly. The ls has helped many over and over again. None of us even rubbed it on others how awesome we are ect. every titan run we have taken people with we have asked them simply to help others. we expect nothing in return.

I paid for my run? I have a brother and friends that I helped get their relics, titan isnt hard for me but nice try? I've ran titan 7-8 times. The only time I've been hit by titan is when my internet was lagging so bad it was unplayable and I had to call out to get it fixed.

I havent gone out of my way to analyze the stats of Vanya vs Myth/Coil gear yet, but I have a feeling there are situations where Vanya could possibly be better, I will have to look at it (and may depend on the piece too, and overmelds)

I'm sure I could obtain a chatlog from Final Fantasy XIV. I have an idea, how about I report the people who I remember insulting me (for no reason) and then I called him a "kid" and Kyp booted me (and if you read the forums he even admits booting me for calling someone a kid) and we can give those players (probably your friends) a warning or a ban for harassment. Would you like me to take that approach for you to prove to you I did nothing wrong?

*PS. Now you are just making stupid claims, paid for Titan runs, blah blah, just full of garbage. I even did Titan with a pug because 2 of the players were my friends.

Once you accept my logic then I'll proceed to showing you why you are wrong. If you cant comprehend the simple logic I am presenting to you then there is no point in continuing the debate.

it's possible to sacrifice ACC (even when not capped) when the difference is really low, for example, your ACC is at 99.95% chance to hit, you can skip thriving for that .05% chance and use it for crit instead. I just want to stress the word "possible" since I'm not too sure myself, because this is the case in a similar game (WoW) where you could sacrifice some hit rating if it's well over the cap, to keep it below the cap and for it to be still beneficial.


and vanya gear IS endgame gear, alongside crafted jewelries, especially if 5 melded and when they are melded with IV materias and you get to cap all the stats, it is even comparable to ilvl 90s, , it may not be best in slot but it is endgame.

math and theorycrafting too is important, and in no way should be demeritted just because it's not "real time".

anyone who uses the word "kid" to another person in an attempt to forcefully assert their dominance is annoying as hell.


crit > determination

Ok, I checked up on something for you. Unless I am completely misunderstanding on how crafting works heres what I came up with.

Vanya Hat of Casting (HQ) - VIT 12, INT 12, Crit 11, Det, 11

Myth Hat - 18 Vit, 18 INT, 15 CRIT, 21 Spellspeed

Vanya Hat of Casting (HQ) with Melds and overmelds can be - (WITH THE INFERIOR III MATERIAL, NOT IV)

Vanya Hat (HQ) Crit - 17 (though I think cap is 16) Int - 16 Determination - 15, 12 Spellspeed, 12 Vit

So, CRIT - 17, INT 16, DET 15, 12 Spellspeed 12 Vit VS. 18 Vit, 18 INT, 15 CRIT, 21 Spellspeed

So assuming theres a cap. From Vanya vs Myth hat - +1 Crit -2 INT, +15 DET, -6 Vit, -9 Spellspeed

Now, yes with this build you lose a bit of hp, but my gut feeling is the +15 Det will do more damage instead of the -9 spellspeed and -2 int.

And if you used Materia IV, your stats would be even better, even if you used only one materia IV if you arent wealthy.

Glim,

Before I called him a "kid" he called me a troll and told everyone to ignore me and that I was an idiot. Only then did I call him a kid.

I said Crit was better than determination for damage, and this Zanon guy disagreed with me. When I am theory crafting and presenting my math and analyzing it, I will consider the possibilities of missing a crucial spell.

So, unless I am misunderstanding how melding works (I understand the last materias to meld are harder to do) its still possible that the Vanya hat may be even BETTER than Mythology hat for damage.

I am quite interested in hearing as to what you have to say about this, Zanon since your claim is its not end-game gear.

IN REPLY TO GLIM:

This is EXACTLY what I'm saying and I got BOOTED out of the Cactuar endgame linkshell for claiming this. There is a point where a certain amount of accuracy can be sacrificed below cap at the expense of getting more damage and can result in higher overall dps even though your accuracy is below the "cap". THATS ALL IVE BEEN SAYING. And they raged their faces off at me for it. I didnt say accuracy isnt necessary, I said theres a mathematical point where you CAN sacrifice some of it for other stats and still do more damage. Its not "KING" in the sense that it will always be better until you hit %99.99 percent. That is NOT true.

http://1-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/b...1888998271.gif

But in a serious note i'll would add two ACC IV to your head and 3 crit IV to your body. Is not enough ACC to do coil with even at 410 i was missing my blizzard 3 which then turn out i could not go back to fire due to no MP. So really you need at least 420+ACC so you don't miss that much in coil. Also ACC food would help a lot in turn 4 where it really needed. Not trying to start anything here just saying your ACC is very low for coil if that really is your acc that show in your profile.

Also Vanya is not endgame? for turn 1-4 you need darklight and Vanya with meld is better then darklight for the DPS you need for BLM. Also the vanya hat with two IV acc would also help a lot with acc issue in coil. Sure vanya is not great for Turn 5 but to be good enough to do turn 1-4 every week to get geared for turn 5 i would say yes it's good.

Zenaku,

I have not melded my gear yet, had been helping other friends with coil runs and getting them their relic, and was leveling up a GSM to 46 which is almost 50. I have tomes saved up for Vanya gloves that I think I'll get, but I just joined Goblin because of this bs on cactuar. I'll have to compare the difference between Vanya gloves and Darklight but I think its more of an investment to get Vanya because you can convert it after you are done with it? I understand my accuracy this second is not good enough to do coil runs but I've been dealing with crap lately and helping friends.

Also in reply to Vanya is not good for Turn 5? Why not? Just remeld it with some Accuracy if you need a higher cap for 5.

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Originally Posted by vorthex

Zenaku,

I have not melded my gear yet, had been helping other friends with coil runs and getting them their relic, and was leveling up a GSM to 46 which is almost 50. I have tomes saved up for Vanya gloves that I think I'll get, but I just joined Goblin because of this bs on cactuar. I'll have to compare the difference between Vanya gloves and Darklight but I think its more of an investment to get Vanya because you can convert it after you are done with it? I understand my accuracy this second is not good enough to do coil runs but I've been dealing with crap lately and helping friends.

Also in reply to Vanya is not good for Turn 5? Why not? Just remeld it with some Accuracy if you need a higher cap for 5.

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the jewelries are really nice, and you could theoritically cap all 3 stats (crit/det/spd) using only III materias, for jewelries and belt, caps are crit/speed/acc = 12 , determination = 8, int = capped , and for ring and earrings, the crafted ones are better if you need the accuracy.

for bigger pieces (chest,pants,hat,boots maybe gloves) you'll need IV materias if you ever want to cap the stats on them, but you could just skip trying to cap all 3 stats and just get III materias and focus on capping only crit/acc/det since spellspeed's value is lacking. I think even piety for BLM is better than SS.

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Originally Posted by vorthex

Zenaku,

I have not melded my gear yet, had been helping other friends with coil runs and getting them their relic, and was leveling up a GSM to 46 which is almost 50. I have tomes saved up for Vanya gloves that I think I'll get, but I just joined Goblin because of this bs on cactuar. I'll have to compare the difference between Vanya gloves and Darklight but I think its more of an investment to get Vanya because you can convert it after you are done with it? I understand my accuracy this second is not good enough to do coil runs but I've been dealing with crap lately and helping friends.

Also in reply to Vanya is not good for Turn 5? Why not? Just remeld it with some Accuracy if you need a higher cap for 5.

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And ya i understand if the cost of the IV is anywhere near as high as in my world i would understand why you have not yet meld then.

Turn 5 you need a lot of Vit and lot of stats and Vanya/darklight don't have the Vit/stats you need to do it without issue. There a lot of things that can one shot you. You just need a lot of HP and DPS to do it without issue and even now no one have won it only people who bug it. So even with meld you lose one or the other but with allgan/AF gear you get both without getting one or the other.

Also why even make a topic like this on a public forums :( seem like a waste of time seeing how the GM may end up taking it down.

I just think its sad, that I was treated so poorly on Cactuar by the endgame players for theorycrafting and presenting a debate and asking their reason for their beliefs and all they could do is insult me and say I'm a troll and then boot me from the endgame linkshell.

This type of behaviour should be frowned upon and to be honest, I wanted everyone to know that Kyp Zahn on Cactuar (I believe hes the leader of the guild) and his followers did this to me unjustly. When you are treated like that for no reason you seek a sense of justice, and I feel like the endgame players of FFXIV should know that this scummy person exists. No respect for the Cactuar endgame players.

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Originally Posted by vorthex

I just think its sad, that I was treated so poorly on Cactuar by the endgame players for theorycrafting and presenting a debate and asking their reason for their beliefs and all they could do is insult me and say I'm a troll and then boot me from the endgame linkshell.

This type of behaviour should be frowned upon and to be honest, I wanted everyone to know that Kyp Zahn on Cactuar (I believe hes the leader of the guild) and his followers did this to me unjustly. When you are treated like that for no reason you seek a sense of justice, and I feel like the endgame players of FFXIV should know that this scummy person exists. No respect for the Cactuar endgame players.

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For many people who run endgame they don't like wasting there time. If you suck you get kicked or put somewhere else and get someone better. Also in a way the OP is right you don't have enough acc and you not even near the point that is good enough to do coil. If you miss with blizzard even once in coil you need more acc.If you miss not even if you do more dps going to help if you can't get full mp back when you do blizzard 3 you have to waste time to cast it again. This is why i ended up getting better gear for coil.

At the end of the day if you don't like the FC you in just leave and find other or if you dislike the world overall you could have left for free.

To clear up some confusion...

He was kicked from the LINKSHELL for being rude and trolling people. He was never in the FC, and it had nothing to do with accuracy or the lack of. The fact that he transferred off to low population server and then still proceeded to try and troll the linkshell on this forum post should tell any prospective FC or Linkshell on Goblin just about anything they need to know about this player.

Yes Vanya gear is perfect for coils, but my point was that vanya is obtainable without needing to even enter a dungeon, it does not mean you are a pro at end game cuz you have it. Having a full crafted set, a relic wep and two pieces of myth jewelry does not equate having experience. it can easly mean you just had alot of money to burn. People will approach acc in different ways, if they can cap it with food then they have to eat at every attempt, if they die, usually its a wipe anyhow (especially in turn 4 where its utterly hard to recover from losing even 1 dps) Or they can hit the cap via normal means and use food to up dps as in my case i use buttons in a basket or any other food that gives me both crit and determination.

I will also state this, the ls im in is one of the many endgame linkshells on cactuar, we do not consider us the best much less the /only/ place to get with people to form better groups. Vorthex if you are using one bad experience to then defame the whole server, it just shows how ignorant you are. Much more if you had been helping friends and even supposedly been in coils (i dont believe it, sorry but no one in their right mind will be an unprepared blm over someone else who did their work to have every skill needed to aid in the runs) why dump them over a LINKSHELL? why move away from a whole server.? We are prob not even a blip on the cactuar servers map. The LS im in does not represent cactuar.