Critical Hit Rate vs Determination (BLM & SMN)

Hey, I was just wondering which is better?

I'm leaning more towards crit rate, since it'll make for really big Fire III's and summmons benefit from it as well, boosting Ifrit's damage (though Garuda doesn't benefit as much due to no AA)


For reference I'm 38 on both jobs (50 PLD & WAR though and 50 on all DoH & DoL so I got a lot of HQ gear I've made for myself).

Just can't seem to decide between pearl or goshenite :mad:



Determination on the other hand, will give me much more stable/consistent damage while not boosting it quite as much (IIRC, it takes 2 Determination to equal 1 STR/DEX/INT for damage).


While I'm at it, Spellspeed or Piety for WHM/SCH ? Currently opting for spell speed because I hate to see a Tank take a critical hit and die because the spell hadn't landed yet, and so far MP recovery hasn't been that big a deal.

Its been somewhat tested but I feel it could go either way due to the parsers not being super accurate but you can never really have too much of both. I would be leaning more towards saying BLM will benefit a lot more with +crit and SMN would probably be better off with +det even though DoTs can crit I wouldn't know how to argue that more base dmg would yield greater results over a small amount of crit chance without soft/hard caps.

I'm pretty sure +crit would only apply to initial damage of any DoT and not the actual DoT itself (e.g. Thunder). Not sure about determination affecting the potency though.

Each tick has a crit chance ...Miasma and Bios don't have initial dmg use a target dummy with only 1 of the 2 DoT to keep track and just watch the numbers it's random but it happens but that's why I say a flat dmg increase would probably roll better than crit imo.

crit do affect dot, etc; archer lv48 traits

River of Blood - grants a 50% chance that critical damage over time inflicted by Venomous Bite or Windbite will reset the Bloodletter recast timer.

That's not really a good example because you're going off a trait which changes how the ability functions.

how much critical chance % is 400 crit hit rate?

That's the other thing that's dumb, the tool tip really should give you a % relative to enemies your level, sorta like how accuracy is displayed in Diablo. Otherwise it's really just a random number with no tangible meaning, like a lot of the stats are :/

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Originally Posted by gigi_frana

how much critical chance % is 400 crit hit rate?

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If I'm not mistaken, 341 is the base crit at lv50 (without gear) and is equal to 5%, and every 14 crit rating afterward is +1%

541 would be around 19% crit.

Det provides a guaranteed damage increase , bigger hits means bigger crits also .

Crit increases your chance to land a critical hit.

Det sounds better in theory . Dunno how valuable 1 det is compared to 1 crit at level 50 though

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Originally Posted by NefGP

That's not really a good example because you're going off a trait which changes how the ability functions.

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DoT's can crit, this was confirmed a long time ago. Real simple to do. Go put a DoT on a target and watch the floating damage. Occasionally, the tick will spike, this is when the DoT has crit. My Bio II ticks for 88~90 damage every 3s, and occasionally spikes for 120~130 damage. I'm sure there's a video somewhere of this if you really desire more proof. Needless to say, Critical Hit Rate is (in most people's opinion) the better stat to build your gear with. As a SMN and BLM, I go INT > Crit > Det.

As a 50 blm... and few crafts at 50 with full DL at the moment. I've been trying to figure out best combination of gear to maximize crit rate, determination, int.... looking at my dl gear, gear I can make hq, and myth gear. ... considering gear that the gear I can make you can meld materia. If I mix n match it seems like I could get good amounts of crit rate, det, and int... but sacrifice some accuracy. I know some people hint at a magic number where u won't miss. But as a blm I can't recall ever missing at all. Do you blm's worry about acc and missing? Have you mixed n matched gear to get better stats? Anyone care to discuss what they are wearing/doing and why?

I ended up going with crit, worked out fairly well in my Cutter's Cry run ^^ (Crit on Fester is just evil)

Good to know DoT procs can crit, that's definitely a change from the norm (and a good one). So can Enkindles crit too? o.O

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Originally Posted by NefGP

So can Enkindles crit too? o.O

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Yes.

/10chars

Cool. So Crit just seems to be this game's super stat, given everything, including cures, seems to have a chance to crit >_>

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Originally Posted by NefGP

Cool. So Crit just seems to be this game's super stat, given everything, including cures, seems to have a chance to crit >_>

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That doesn't make any sense.

For instance, "weapon damage is the game's super stat because everything, including cures, are affected by it"

"determination is the game's super stat because everything, including cures, are affected by it"

"accuracy is the game's super stat because everything, (well not cures this time =P), are affected by it"

"int/mind/dex/str is the game's super stat because everything, including cures, are affected by it"

you can say it about every offensive stat except SS, and SS affects MOST everything except DoTs and autoattacks (i think).

Then, do we have some statement in order to compare crit and deter ? like a graph or something like that ?
As a SMN and in my opinion, focusing 500 critical rate then deter is a good option. You need to sacrify too much stats to raise more crit afterwards.

Parsers don't show crit dmg on dots, and if they do, it is just estimated. There is no way to figure out true dps increse as smn since theres a lot of guessing and alot of bugs when it comes to smn. however, I can imagine that, IF dots are critable, the softcap would be around 12-15% critrate, which is easy to get with ilvl90 gear. however, before, you shouldnt bother to get anything else than a hitcapped smn with full dl.

HOWEVER THIS: I have my own theory when it comes to determination and if it proofs to be correct, I will post something here, on reddit, on youtube and live on my stream with a full detailed spreadsheet + explanation

does det by chance affect the "procs" of blm??

I main SMN in coil. I can tell you crit is way better. Pets don't work off det, it works of your book. You can take off all your gear and have your 110 weapon on and pet would be hitting same, but if you go to a 100 book you can see HP is lower on pet and it hits are weeker. Over all having Garuda crit is really good, and dots do crit. In like turn 11 my dots are doing 1,1k each tick not including crits, shadowflare 100-200, and Garuda is 350, but crit is over 600.
It takes 8 det to= 1 int. So you would needs lots of det to make up differences of that crit for SMN.

/shameless self advertisement

I made a post regarding this over on the reddits a while ago: http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen..._a_blm/coawt3c

The long story short is that looking at the stat weights(such as they work for these things) in a different way shows that it's generally more efficient to go for Crit than Det, on a Black Mage at least. If you do the same thing I do there on a Summoner, it also ends up being the case that Crit's more efficient, but not by quite as much. If that blurb above about how Det doesn't affect your pet is true, I can see why.

The disgusting necro-post going on here is even more shameless lmfao.

Anyway, you can literally just simplify all of that Donjo and multiply DET/CRT by their item budgets to see what's more effective "stacking".

DET_Weight*20 = A
CRT_Weight*29 = B

DET_Weight*29 = C
CRT_Weight*41 = D

DET_Weight*13 = E
CRT_Weight*21? = F

More than often, it's more efficient to "stack CRT". This applies for every job pretty much. This is also part of the reason why some sets have very high CRT, and others have much lower CRT, when optimising for certain accuracy requirements that is.

Over 1yo thread? Why was it brought back to life..

No Det does not affect proc rate on blm. Yes crit does affect DoT dmg. Pretty sure Spellspeed is best secondary stat on blm. (Looking at Spuro's e-peen section on his blm dmg calculated spreadsheet for example, most build that are top 10 are spellspeed)

Monks benefit more from Det I believe, since we already have +30% crit rate every 60 sec and guaranteed crit hit ( bootshine). about the "weapon only effects pet" that I don't know of, but if that's the case crit all the way as a smn.

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Originally Posted by Picori

I main SMN in coil. I can tell you crit is way better. Pets don't work off det, it works of your book. You can take off all your gear and have your 110 weapon on and pet would be hitting same, but if you go to a 100 book you can see HP is lower on pet and it hits are weeker. Over all having Garuda crit is really good, and dots do crit. In like turn 11 my dots are doing 1,1k each tick not including crits, shadowflare 100-200, and Garuda is 350, but crit is over 600.
It takes 8 det to= 1 int. So you would needs lots of det to make up differences of that crit for SMN.

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Det does affect pets, and it takes a lot less than 8 to get a comparable benefit to 1 Int.