Multiboxing and bot-farming? When will SE draw the line?

I understand there are plenty of folks who multibox. Got it. I also understand that it is legal. Of course it is, that's 2-6x the amount of income from one player for SE, right? But there is a point where the gray area needs to be labeled red, and draw the line. I'm looking to see who agrees and would like to see SE address it.

I did my share of dual-boxing in FFXI. Slap that high level RDM on /follow and heal as you go. But what about when it comes to the use of semi-automation in order to sit and farm highly saught-after items (in this case, Diremite webs west of Fallgourd Float) for hours on end? When you have 6 toons all using a specific pattern of abilities, regardless of situation (curing when not needed, attacking the closest Banemite, regardless of who's tagged it, never tagging more than one at a time), and following a specific and repetitive route... it seems a bit odd.

(Continued)

When a person replies to a /tell (or in this case, sends you one as you're abusing thier bot by tagging mobs before them), does that mean it's now okay? Because someone is sitting behind the keyboard to DRIVE the automation?

My point is this - Hurrah for multiboxers, it's a bit of a task. But once it is being used to drive a monopoly on items, and in the process skyrocketing prices (why does a higher level mat sell for 60, when these webs sell for 600+?) and weakening an already shakey economy, my friends and I agree it's too much. How would this issue get addressed without endangering the more 'legit' multiboxers? And how much of an outcry is needed for SE to even look into it? Too often it seems, as long as it's making them more money, a blind eye is turned. (It IS a business, after all...)

Diremite webs are ridiculously overpriced,but can't you also just do dungeon runs to get them instead of camping fallgourd float if it's full?

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Originally Posted by Appleh4x

Diremite webs are ridiculously overpriced,but can't you also just do dungeon runs to get them instead of camping fallgourd float if it's full?

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you could do that... and get faaaaaar fewer webs than you would even fighting off botters. The problem isn't that there is another way to get them. The problem is that people are botting in the first place. Put blame where it belongs, not on the person complaining about bots, but on the bots themselves.

If the farmer is actually playing at his computer than how is it any different than someone with just one character farming? If he's there for 24+ hours then he's legit botting and should be banned, but most multiboxers are actually playing the game.

Last sunday I mentioned in another thread in this and got flame bad by multi box users. Guess what the same teams of 6 character multi boxing is now lvl 3x-4x farming fate in highland. All 6 do the same attack and get on chocobos the same time and follow the "leader" . Well coordinated players or third party program?

No. SE has this ability setup in their own options.

Step 1. Windowed mode
Step 2. Set all game client to allow use of controller when window is inactive.
Step 3. Setup good macros for each extra client
Step 4. Profit.

SE even allows 3 clients off one service account to be active at the same time. Its how me and my wife could both play on the same tv.

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Originally Posted by SukoshiSeppen

No. SE has this ability setup in their own options.

Step 1. Windowed mode
Step 2. Set all game client to allow use of controller when window is inactive.
Step 3. Setup good macros for each extra client
Step 4. Profit.

SE even allows 3 clients off one service account to be active at the same time. Its how me and my wife could both play on the same tv.

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If you can show me a tutorial in this good macro and 6 characters with same class? Lol.
I got a feeling that group of 6 I saw is not doing anything good. More like plvling to sell characters.

Beyond that, I even have a screenshot of said person defending themselves saying that they're not a bot, they're using the "isboxer" program, which he claims is legal. In short: "I'm using a 3rd party program to manage the characters!" Lol

Really, multiboxing (if I understand it right) is botting. You yourself are playing on a single character, while a program is using the 2nd character (even if you are at the keyboard).

Don't understand why SE allow something that ppl can abuse and make money from it when they have no way of controlling it. Those rmt on my server are selling those plvled characters for around 150 usd. That's lots of good money since fates are so easy to plvl.

What's wrong with multiboxing? If you're not using third-party software to play for you and can manage to do it manually, there's nothing wrong with that.

Use your head I already explained it to you. Its not hard to make a macro. Ya that guy is using a program...which he doesnt have to because you just gotta change some options in and you can do it yourself. 1 button can make 6 clients all use the same command same time. Here I will spell it out...

Main char named AA...pawns BA CA DA EA FA.
First move...used on all pawns with one command using SEs options. /follow AA
Second move press button to target mob as AA
Third move... used with all pawns /assist AA...assuming that command works but there is one to do that
Now all 6 chars are targeted same mob...
Fourth move... /ac "insert skill or spell"
Fifth move...repeat first move.

There you go...now you can all profit like a botter without actually botting or using 3rd party programs.

Use of controller required as you can make gamepad still respond while client is inactive.

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Originally Posted by ForteXX

Really, multiboxing (if I understand it right) is botting. You yourself are playing on a single character, while a program is using the 2nd character (even if you are at the keyboard).

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Ya...the client of the game is being used...no special programs required.

http://kotaku.com/5514947/online-gam...of-multiplayer

This is illegal multiboxing :p

Even using a G15 is illegal if you start to automate stuff.
Multiboxing isn't illegal, but if to that you add automatism, then it is.

It is a double edge sword and it is hard for SE to catch. Great way to earn money I guess?..even though it is against TOS.
Allow something and some ppl will abuse it.

Ok here goes. I am a multiboxer, and I've been pretty candid. I am not fond how some people lump multiboxers like they are all out to do bad. That being said, I appreciate the comments that do defend the players really playing the game. It's not cool to just assume anything. It's similar to saying Chinese are RMT; that's just racist and judgemental. It's not funny; plenty of legit Chinese players 'nuff said.

Let me say, I don't condone illegal activities such as selling gil/accounts. If one individual does wrong, that shouldn't reflect on everyone. If SE were to draw the line and say multiboxing is not allowed, I would indeed stop because I would like to continue to play. My logic and playstyle just happens to be different than others. I don't expect people to understand. Admittedly, I won't stop multiboxing unless SE says it's not allowed, not because how others feel on the matter. All the more reason, it would be nice for some clarification from SE.

(cont.)

I multiboxed alot in FFXI, and I knew plenty of others that did the same. It was never much of an issue back then; it feels like drama now. On top of things, you generally would have to use *gasp* a 3rd party program to open other FFXI instances: the famous windower. And a lot of people used windower in general (not just for multiboxing purposes); it's funny now seeing people preach about 3rd party programs when it's convenient.

I know people wonder why I multibox: I get asked all the time. I have plenty of reasons for multiboxing; in short, I find it rather enjoyable. I don't want to bore you with a long list of reasons of why I do it; I simply like to multitask. To me, multitasking is the same as watching youtube and television while playing. And in a practical sense, it's like cooking 3 different dishes at the same time.

(cont.)

Multi-boxing is hardly easy; it's a chore. It takes time and effort to become proficient. I've died several times; I've lost my head plenty. It was a huge mess to find my own groove. You can say it's unfair, and in ways, I'll agree with you. But it's not all that cut and dry. You have more characters to maintain and more characters to outfit. You have more tasks all around. With more characters, it means more work and effort to get those few perks. At the end of the day, the harsh reality is the game mechanics make it literally impossible to multibox: all endgame dungeons cannot be multiboxed.

(cont.)

In my own multiboxing opinion, I honestly wouldn't know why anybody would keep active subscriptions on all their characters. You REALLY must love to grind (scaled with as many characters you want to gear up). For the gear that matters, this must be done individually. To any future multiboxers, you've been warned: this game requires too many movement mechanics. Plain and simple: don't have high expectations, but if you're willing to do more than the average player, then you may just reap the rewards.

(cont.)

Ultimately though, others can multibox if they choose to themselves; there's no reason to hate. I still encourage multiboxing despite the setbacks. One of the top of my head, you can play another race and have another class to gear (due to the weekly caps). You can have your own personal healer; not like the overwold and non-instanced matter much though. I kind of doubt multiboxers are going to flock in though, so forgive me when I say I don't know why anyone is fretting. I already feel like a vast minority on one of the more crowded servers. I play on Behemoth, and I haven't ran into a multiboxer on the field yet. I'm sure there's someone, but I haven't ran into them. The bad experiences that people are having with other multiboxers; that's on those individuals and not every multiboxer out there.

(cont.)

Haha geez screwed myself over with daily limit of posts and 1000 character limit on Karos. I have plenty to say, but I guess I'm going to hit the same snag on my alt Lyndis. I'm going to try and wrap it up.

Now for the record, you don't need a 3rd party program to multibox. I don't need to use one. You can open multiple instances normally. And all this talk about doing actions at the same time: it's not rocket science. It's very simple really: the stroke of a button will broadcast to all instances when gamepad is enabled to inactive clients (as long as the same gamepad is designated to the clients you want to use them for). So if you press that button or move the joystick, then every client will perform those actions at the same time. You can designate different controllers too if you want direct control of that alt. I can't understand why people are confused about this mechanic; just try it yourself if you don't believe. I'd make a guide if I wasn't so lazy.

(cont.)

Finally, I'd like to address some of the qualms on multi-boxing because I do get them plenty of times. The two popular arguments are:

1. Automation. You probably heard this all before, but to those that haven't, nothing is automatic unless a bot is involved. Legit multiboxers are not using bots; you have to input each command manually (albeit broadcasted). You might then feel it's "semi-automation", but lets look at what creates semi-automation actions: macros and the auto-follow.

"Semi-automation" actions are already rooted in the game and not considered against ToS, nor what that involves. If you're saying "semi-automation" is not allowed, then anybody who uses macros is breaking ToS. Unless you take out /follow, /assist, and other commands in the game, then the issue will always be there; this is the only way to render a multiboxer useless.

(cont.)

I can't see how it's possible to play 2 characters at the same time in this game without some form of bot..

FFXI or 1.0? Yeah sure.. Because combat was 10x slower, and half of the combat relied a bit on auto-attacks.. In 2.0 however, when you are required to hit a button every rough 2.5 secs, I truly can't see how that's possible even with 2 keyboards in front of you.. So that's 2 characters... Anything more then that? No way, that's obviously a hack of some sort..

Basically automated third party scripts or programs are against ToS and can be/should be reported. Pretty safe to blanket everyone that uses 3 or more accounts at the same time unless they are doing excessively trivial tasks.

2. Third-party programs. I don't use one to multibox this game, but I'm constantly hounded by other players regardless. Despite common belief, you don't need one to multibox FFXIV.

That aside, somehow multiboxing is synonymous with third-party programs. Already the assumptions and accusations fly here. It's a big argument against multi-boxing. Well for one, it's without merit if you don't need one. And even so, I find it tricky business when it comes to third party programs/tools. Mind you, I admittedly don't hold any resentment towards ppl that use third-party programs. A lot of us technically use 3rd party programs/tools. To name a few, there are things like directx, graphic plugins, Teamspeak, hotkey profilers, parsers, lag fixers, video capture programs, etc. I realize that the application and severity are different from person to person, but it doesn't change the fact that they are 3rd party. I find it disturbing how using anything 3rd party should be banned.

You simply need to enable gamepad to work for inactive state. You don't even have to make macros for most activities (again endgame instanced areas are pretty much impossible); FATEs or farming hardly require a lot of complex manuveurs. I move with the WASD keys and sometimes the mouse for my main. I only use like 4 buttons for the most part: 1 chocobo, 1 auto-follow, 1 normal action, and 1 DPS macro rotation (and yes, they do go off at the same time because it broadcasts). The gamepad is simply for those actions. Want to end auto-follow? Hit up on the joystick. Jump, reset camera, menus, confirm, cancel: it's all already there on your pad. For direct movement controls, switch to that character's window. Just dual-boxing, you can just assign that one pad and control that alt directly. I can keep going on and on...

It's truly not hacking or botting. As I said before, anyone that doesn't believe can try it themselves.

The correct term is "key-broadcasting", and let me just say there's nowhere in the ToS saying it's prohibited, and until it does, it's a matter of opinion. SE would have to take out that "inactive client" feature plain and simple if they want to render it useless. Still, you want to play it like a pro, then really: don't multibox. Multiboxing has no business with the real gameplay, and it's an insult and disservice to your group. Even if you make the greatest macros, you'll never replace an individual.

And as I stated throughout, endgame is not something you multibox. You can do the trivial and menial, but that's about the extent of it. Nobody is talking about doing the more difficult content, and I'm sure most multiboxers can fully chime in on this.

Get this. Some ppl do it to Plvl Characters and sell the Characters to earn money. Using 3rd party program or use build in macro. I believe is against TOS to sell accounts and it is hard to catch but you can see them doing it in game.

Multi boxing is good or bad?

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Originally Posted by LyndisRay

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This is off-topic, but I would like to point out you can edit your first to bypass the 1000 character limit. It's kinda stupid, yes, but we can bypass it that way and avoid having to make up to 5+ posts like you just did - which appears to be annoying for you as well.

On-topic: Nothing to add here. Carry on.

That's not relevant. A RTM who powerlevel using multiboxing will have each account under a different name and can be ban for account sharing without anything to do with boxing. A legit boxer will have all his games registered under the same SE account.

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Originally Posted by Ravno

That's not relevant. A RTM who powerlevel using multiboxing will have each account under a different name and can be ban for account sharing without anything to do with boxing. A legit boxer will have all his games registered under the same SE account.

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Thanks for the info. Let's see if SE ban them.

Muliboxing =/= boting
Two different things. Boting should be extremely strictly enforced as not aloud. Alas SquareE's server security is pathetic, and they don't seem to care to make much effort to get rid of them.
One of the reasons I'm out of here.

If they are using a 3rd party program it is against ToS. Pretty cut and dry. If they do it without then they are fine.

If you are using your mouse driver, mumble, direct X or any 3thd party program it s against TOS ?
It's not clear, a third party program is against ToS if it's a cheat or give an advantage to the player.
Not sure about software boxing since you gain no advantage to an hardware boxer.

It's a gray area (at least as long as you do pure 1 keypress = 1 action) and SE will never tell witch 3thd party are allowed or not they have others things to do than giving certifications.
If SE judge it's a cheat, software boxer will be ban so that's definitivly a risk and i advise to stick to hardware boxing. But the risk is low, i don't see why SE will think it's a cheat since all others MMO allow boxing (software or hardware).
And by the way, there is a report of one software boxer who was mistakenly ban because SE thinked he was a bot and he get his ban lifted after telling SE he was a software boxer and witch software he was using.

A program that controls the other toon?

What happen to just having keyclone?

I still rock keyclone. I don't multibox anymore, but it worked just fine for WoW..

only game (to my knowledge) ever having a ban against multiboxing was very early everquest (the ultimate multibox game haha) but after awhile they removed it because it made no sense.

How would you ban ppl, on what grounds, what proof would be considered enough, and lastly no company could afford the amount of GMs required to track multiboxers since they follow the same patterns normal player does.

The difference on botting is that you can track it by searching for repetitious patterns etc, and lastly multiboxing make use of core fundamental functions that have been around in IT since the 60s, it would come down to "haz pc must be multiboxer" ie most of us who plays.

And lastly, and this is where Blizzard got alot of heat, tracking program like warden(wow) would have to be allowed to act the same way as keyloggers and trojans in order to really see if you are using a program that allows you to run several clients at the same time. Warden is "only" allowed to track its own memory space, which is still considered "blizzard" property.

So while a multiboxer might annoy the odd player in an mmo much like a fly annoys an elephant the resources required to hunt down ppl who multibox are atm being used by NA to hunt terrorrists, so untill that problem is solved or multiboxing becomes no1 prio of the NSA, dont bother ;)

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Originally Posted by Nikorayu

we can bypass it that way and avoid having to make up to 5+ posts like you just did - which appears to be annoying for you as well.

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Many thanks for the information. I'll do that in the future.

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Originally Posted by LordSideKicks

Get this. Some ppl do it to Plvl Characters and sell the Characters to earn money. Using 3rd party program or use build in macro. I believe is against TOS to sell accounts and it is hard to catch but you can see them doing it in game.

Multi boxing is good or bad?

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I don't doubt that in any way, such things exist in this world. It's still speculation in the grand scheme of things (unless you personally know a lot of them and/or unless you have firsthand experience at multi-boxing yourself), and it's discriminatory to automatically assume that any multiboxer is participating in illegal activities. Ultimately if they are, then they put themselves at much risk.

As for whether multiboxing is good or bad: that's a matter of questioning a player's playstyle. I'm not going to talk about participating in illegal activities; I speak of the concept itself. Yes, there is the potential for good or bad; that's everything in life. Questioning why a player plays all day, why an individual (non-multiboxer) monopolizes a camp/market, why a person openly blasts/criticizes others, etc. are all individual choices. Any feelings on such matters would be biased on personal feelings and experiences; it's a matter of opinion. It can be seen going both ways, and really all you can do is respect (not agree nor condone) that person's unique playstyle and go on about your business. I'm sorry that you had much trouble dealing with a certain individual, but that person's action(s) does not reflect the whole.

That said, my perspective and intentions on the matter are biased obviously. We all don't fit some mold that you profile; this statement goes for everybody. I don't even understand why people buy accounts in the first place, let alone sell them. You'd make way more in a minimum wage paying job with the time invested, but hey, that's the way I logically think of it. I kind of feel RMT is given too much credit if they can play the game so well; it is my belief RMT are going to be using the bots and absolute automation (they wouldn't know how to play the game and wouldn't focus on gearing). RMT are going to generally be absent, and to my knowledge, you can't be absent from FATE, Leves, etc. But yeah, I haven't seen these RMT groups running around in the game (that's not just stationed somewhere), so I wouldn't know a damn thing. I've been accused of being one though *pfft*.

I try to be helpful when I can: like actually raising people, throwing cures, killing nearby quest-related mobs, killing non-FATE adds on someone in FATEs, etc. And I don't see the value of gil especially when most of the good stuff come from dungeons. I haven't farmed anything nor camped anything; I try to avoid counter-camping in every way possible (even as just a single individual character). I have 70k to my name, and I feel very comfortable with just repairs and the like. I don't multibox to make gil, and for that matter, I don't do it for RMT purposes *ugh*. I've been multiboxing for years, and certainly some people know me from FFXI.

As I said before, I still haven't ran into a fellow multi-boxer in FFXIV myself, and I don't know what they do and what they choose to do. Even so, I see no problem in any program that is used for key-cloning/broadcasting or opening multiple instances. I realize it does say ALL 3rd party programs/tools in the ToS, but there are far too many 3rd party stuff that is inadvertently used anyways. You can even use a USB sharer (ableit they are not that reliable), and that's not a tool nor a program. Some of us are just more resourceful than others, and I'm sure somebody will think of something that nobody else has already thought of. I literally could just control each instance individually for minor things like FATEs (seriously, you only need to do minimal to get the exp); it's not like I can't use multiple keyboards and mouses anyways. There's even a discussion in the French section of the forums showing one guy's setup. However, I employ a normal & legit method that makes it easy, of course I'm going to utilize it. I'm sure if you could speed through a dungeon using a trick, people would do it. I'm sure if you want to powerlevel your crafts, people would do just that too. So change the nature of the game if it's such a problem because that's where the root of it is.

People's playstyle and choices are going to be different. But as long as they're not doing what's clearly outlined as prohibited (noticed the keyword "clearly", not gray area), then yeah it's only an annoyance to some while "the thing to do" for others.