Bored at work, so why not speculate on job tree's for THM

Hi all,

It was pretty clear to me that the new "job" catagory will be advanced tree's that originate with the "classes" already in game. SO ASSUMING THIS IS TRUE, what "jobs" do you all think will stem from THM? Do you think it will be titles already in the games files? Or everything brand new?

I just hope they don't destroy the flexability we have here, thats what drew me to FFXIV

I'm not sure what Thaumaturge would be :S

I dunno how they plan on including Blue Mage/Summoner/Time mage? (if they were going to include them).

I was thinking about this a lot too. It seems like black mage and white mage would be stemming off CON, or at least that made the most sense to me. I'm hoping they bring Red Mage back, but other than debuffs(which were a huge part of red mage in ffxi), that job seems to also be more closely related to CON. Overall, I hope to see a mix of classics like the mages mentioned but also some new unique jobs as well.

As far as what THM will branch off into, I really have no idea. It could possibly some type of necromancer/WoW-based warlock type thing what with all the talk about resurrecting the dead, debuffs, absorb spells, etc etc. I really like the uniqueness of the THM skillset but I hope SE does something creative with it as well.

I would be very sad if they didn't include some form of summoner. :/

CON= Wizard (BLM), Priest (WHM), Oracle (RDM)
THM= Time Mage, Dark Knight, Paladin

Wizard (WIZ or WZD)
Focuses on elemental damaging spells and enfeebling spells. Weaponskills enfeeble the target.
Priest (PRS or PST)
Focuses on healing spells and enhancing spells. Weaponskills heal HP, MP, and status.
Oracle (ORC or OCL)
Combines elemental spells with enfeebling and enhancing, such as a fire damage spell that temporarily increases STR of user, or a fire damage spell that decreases the target's INT. Due to their magic focus, no weaponskills for Oracle.
Time Mage (TIM or TMG) lol Tim
Enchancing and enfeebling spells that all relate to time. Physical abilities relate to the same, but not much for weapon skills.
Paladin (PLD)
Heavy light elemental abilities and spells.
Dark Knight (DRK)
Heavy dark elemental abilities and spells.

You really put thm= to paladin?
most likely arcanist will be one of the branch off of thm. other then that idk what the second one will be, maybe redmage? arcanist could be an enhancer/nuker and redmage could be an advance debuffer/nuker? idk hard question to figure out what second branch would be.
Most likely paladin will be branches off glad and if there is going to be a dark knight it be branched off mrd.

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Originally Posted by Thiol

I was thinking about this a lot too. It seems like black mage and white mage would be stemming off CON, or at least that made the most sense to me. I'm hoping they bring Red Mage back, but other than debuffs(which were a huge part of red mage in ffxi), that job seems to also be more closely related to CON. Overall, I hope to see a mix of classics like the mages mentioned but also some new unique jobs as well.

As far as what THM will branch off into, I really have no idea. It could possibly some type of necromancer/WoW-based warlock type thing what with all the talk about resurrecting the dead, debuffs, absorb spells, etc etc. I really like the uniqueness of the THM skillset but I hope SE does something creative with it as well.

I would be very sad if they didn't include some form of summoner. :/

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i have a feeling thats what the primal fights will be for, in the mission with ifrit he explains something that leads towards smner, srry if this spoiled some for u just wanted to say that part to explain theres a chance for summoner

Are we assuming that each class has their own job-offshoots? While a plausibility, it's not the only way. They could, for instance, create jobs that combine classes, possibly as well as having some that only require one class. eg:
- Conj only = White & Black Mage
- Thm only = Time & Blue Mage
- Lancer only = Dragoon
- Conj + Glad = Paladin
- Thm + Glad = Dark Knight
- Thm + Conj = Red Mage
- Arch + Pug = Theif
- Pug + Glad + Thm = Ninja

All speculation mind you. Here I go getting abstract and fanciful now:
- Conjurer + Miner + Blacksmith = Geomancer

What it looked like is you choose your class, and are able to move around class abilities from one class to another, but each class will have a list of jobs, probably 2 to start, where you get automatic job abilities instead of being able to interchange them.

My idea of DRK and PLD related to THM was just a base idea. Something like that where one focuses on light and the other on dark, as THM is the light/dark class. Then CON is the "elements" class, so maybe BLM and RDM or BLU, something that can use those six elements.

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Originally Posted by Joshua0399

You really put thm= to paladin?
most likely arcanist will be one of the branch off of thm. other then that idk what the second one will be, maybe redmage? arcanist could be an enhancer/nuker and redmage could be an advance debuffer/nuker? idk hard question to figure out what second branch would be.
Most likely paladin will be branches off glad and if there is going to be a dark knight it be branched off mrd.

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Arcanist and Musketeer were designed as weapon classes, so they won't branch off or unlock from any of the weapon classes that we have now. They'll unlock their own jobs. Also, who knows how much they are going to be changing the current classes one we see those changes it'll probably make more sense which classes will unlock which jobs.

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Arcanist and Musketeer were designed as weapon classes, so they won't branch off or unlock from any of the weapon classes that we have now. They'll unlock their own jobs.

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Yeah, I was thinking since there's already a guild for musketeer and arcanist, that they would be classes added in a later date, and not jobs.

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They could, for instance, create jobs that combine classes, possibly as well as having some that only require one class.

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I like this idea a lot too, but it seems unlikely based on what the battle reform blueprint said. According to Matsui's post, the jobs will be available after reaching a certain rank in the corresponding class (singular) and completing a quest. I could be reading into it too much though. Still, there could be some really interesting combinations of skills with the abilities that new jobs have as well as abilities accumulated on other classes. It'll be interesting to see how that plays out.

arcanist shows up abit in thm cutscene is why i think it can be a branch off, Also arcanist uses dark magic like thm, but i dont think they will do combine skills in order to make the class seeing how u can do that now, also it bring it back to 11 where u had to have certain skills and jobs level in order to play your job well and i dont think they want to make that mistake. Also back to my theory of advancing i think they will make it once u get a class to 50 like thm for example, you can advance to another class like arcanist. You can go to the Arcanist guild and do the quest and once u are done u get a rar/ex weapon or w/e thats Level1 and cannot be trade able, Also i think there taking off the any level can wear any gear so that someone cant just go buy an arcanist weapon and skip the quest. idk if this sounds dumb or i just dont know what i am talking about but thats just my theory on the thing. Never know though they might just not make branch offs and just give the job and you level it from there.

Also theres gonna be a guild for ever class im assuming so i dont think just cause theres a guild doesnt mean it wont be a branch off, im sure paladin will have a guild when it releases

Personally, I'm very much hoping that jobs, once unlocked, will be able to be used along with any class. I'd like to be able to play a THM Paladin if I really wanted to, or a Gladiator Red Mage, or a.. Pugilist Black Mage? And so on.

That said, it does sound as though having ranks in the classes will be what allows us to flag the quests to unlock the different jobs, but again, I hope we're not forced to only use those jobs on the classes with which we unlocked them.

As far as what THM might unlock, I'm thinking maybe Red Mage and... some variation of Dark Knight? We do, after all, have a lot of the spells that DRKs did in FFXI... I'm not sure though. Only time will tell!

From what it looks like alot of class abilities are being relisted, meaning you will learn a completely different list of abilities than what the class originallywould learn.

Only using certain jobs for certain classes makes perfect sense sweetiealism. Using certain weapons with certain jobs is the way jobs are in almost every MMO.

Seems pretty presumtious Carpe, to state that as fact, obviously its just an assumption, but perhaps I misinterperate you meaning. Alot of things in the game were designed a certain way, and that team that set that way was removed. Its quit possible that several of the jobs/classes already set to be there own in game may become Master classes so to speak, in the future.

THM could possibly have an option to be more of a necromancer or blood mage type.

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Originally Posted by Coglin

Seems pretty presumtious Carpe, to state that as fact, obviously its just an assumption, but perhaps I misinterperate you meaning. Alot of things in the game were designed a certain way, and that team that set that way was removed. Its quit possible that several of the jobs/classes already set to be there own in game may become Master classes so to speak, in the future.

THM could possibly have an option to be more of a necromancer or blood mage type.

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thats what i kinda mean is that you become advanced not an actual new class, but idk if necro and bloodmage were past FF classes. i think there gonna go with originals so maybe redmage, green mage, or time mage? idk

necros exist in FF , in FF tactics exist , and there are "LOTS" of necro bosses and mobs .....

summoning death minions to kill ppl? ......yeah common as hell :P

white mage <> black mage

summoner <> necro

paladin <> dark knight

ect ect ect

yeah why i said idk lol but i wonder if it be good for thm u know? like maybe they will release a pet class that can advance to a necro or summoner?

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Originally Posted by Joshua0399

Also theres gonna be a guild for ever class im assuming so i dont think just cause theres a guild doesnt mean it wont be a branch off, im sure paladin will have a guild when it releases

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I doubt paladin or any other jobs will have a guild. Remember jobs are not the same thing as classes. A job is going to be unlocked from a quest and it'll gain abilities from quests:

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While playing as a particular job will render you unable to equip certain actions of other classes, you will be compensated with access to exclusive actions, which can be acquired through quests.

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So it learns abilities through a different kind of system. Think about how many new guilds they would have to make if they had a guild for every class and a guild for every job.

So unless they are going to do some crazy revamp of arcanist and musketeer it doesn't make sense that they would branch off from any existing class because they were designed as classes (they were designed before the job system was thought of) and they already have guilds establishing them as classes. Also, they are identified by a weapon. A Musketeer uses a gun/musket and an Arcanist uses this weird engineered rod. They are already in the lore of LL as classes, so it would be a total mess for them to redesign them to be jobs that branch off from classes. Those two classes were probably meant to be released with all the other classes (they would balance out the number of classes that come from each city in the game if they were implemented now, LL:MRD(1) to Uldah:GLA,PUG,THM(3) to Grid:ARC,LNC,CON(3)). So in my mind they were just one of the many things that the dev team couldn't implement in time for the release. That's my reasoning for them being classes.

With that being said, of course they are making changes, but honestly turning arcanist and musketeer into jobs that unlock from classes just sounds dumb to me sorry.

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Originally Posted by Carpe

So in my mind they were just one of the many things that the dev team couldn't implement in time for the release.

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Either that, and/or they thought they would hold it back for the first expansion pack.

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Originally Posted by Carpe

I doubt paladin or any other jobs will have a guild. Remember jobs are not the same thing as classes. A job is going to be unlocked from a quest and it'll gain abilities from quests:

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I should hope they do. I really don't want to play another 7 years of mostly generic class lore. I look forward to seeing FF job lore built on in every FF that includes them. I've seen a lot of the jobs' stories to 36, and I'm just not that interested in seeing them continue to be focussed on. If I have to choose between hearing more about Woodwailers or starting to hear about the Order of Dragoons, it's not even a competition. Screw lancer. A Woodwailer is something you go play some startup random MMO to be.

I want to see all the class guilds be fundamentals and starter content, then the bulk of the game's lore to be about what we play FF for.

Maybe all the job guilds should go in Ishgard and take their rightful place at the top of the game.

Regardless of whether or not the new jobs get their own guilds, we do know something else.

Changes to the game mechanics and such thus far have been built in to the game's lore rather than just being implemented. When the jobs are introduced, it would be very out of character for the current dev team to not ensure they have their own lore and stories surrounding them for us to experience.

Personally, I expect the jobs to not have physical guilds, but something else. Exactly what, I'm not sure yet.

I fail to understand a logic behind a guild for jobs. The guilds are class guilds. Jobes are going to be sub-divided specialties of there respective classes. Thats how I took it at least. My first thought is that they plan to have 2 jobs for each class, but that assumption only.

Made up example here. Gladiators have a quest to unlock either dark knight/death knight or paladin/white knight. why would they both need there own seperate guild? there both gladiators. They are simply gladiators o different specialties or different directions.

Thm really throws a wrench into the job system and will be the hardest to make sense of the decisions.
Blm and smn are classically elemental in nature.
Whm is counter cultural to thaumaturgy.
Red Mage- plausible. Wrong weapon though, hard to define a real party role.
Time Mage- plausible, potentially game breaking to give thm hastes and meteor.
Blue Mage-plausible
Dark knight- hard to argue an entire change in discipline.

I'm going to guess time Mage. Emphasis on boosting performance of party members.

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Originally Posted by Coglin

Made up example here. Gladiators have a quest to unlock either dark knight/death knight or paladin/white knight. why would they both need there own seperate guild? there both gladiators. They are simply gladiators o different specialties or different directions.

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makes no sense for dark knights to associate with paladins in the same guild. They are opposite cultures and mentalities.

Just as monks and pugilists really would have nothing to do with each other. Totally different things.

There's some pretty big leaps in this thread. I think it's hard to argue that at least when it comes to the mages the most logical assimilation is CON => BLM, WHM; THM => RDM, DRK.

BLM WHM because clearly they have the -na spells, protect and shell and elemental nukes.
RDM DRK because they debuff, cure and absorb, just cuz drk was a warrior type in one game doesnt mean they can't make dark mage or death mage or w.e ffish they want to come up with. I don't really see Time Mage as logically stemming from THM, maybe Arcanist though, so I'm still on the boat of ACN and MSK are planned 'classes' and not jobs.

then again im just speculating too.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

makes no sense for dark knights to associate with paladins in the same guild. They are opposite cultures and mentalities.

Just as monks and pugilists really would have nothing to do with each other. Totally different things.

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They have alot to do with each other, they come from the same base class. thats like saying a cowboy hat is a hat. A baseball cap is not a cowboy hat, therefore a baseball cap is not a hat. they may be very different, but they are still both hats. Just like paladins and dark knights are both sword/board tanks, one just happens to thrive on the holy path of light, and the other the questionable path of the line between life and death as a thm does.

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Originally Posted by Coglin

They have alot to do with each other, they come from the same base class. thats like saying a cowboy hat is a hat. A baseball cap is not a cowboy hat, therefore a baseball cap is not a hat. they may be very different, but they are still both hats. Just like paladins and dark knights are both sword/board tanks, one just happens to thrive on the holy path of light, and the other the questionable path of the line between life and death as a thm does.

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Uh no that's like saying people who wear cowboy hats and people who wear top hats are pretty much the same.
Except they're pretty much the opposite of each other and wouldn't be caught dead with each other.

Paladins and dark knights are polar opposites. If the paladin guild found out you were also a dark knight, they should give you **** for it.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Uh no that's like saying people who wear cowboy hats and people who wear top hats are pretty much the same.
Except they're pretty much the opposite of each other and wouldn't be caught dead with each other.

Paladins and dark knights are polar opposites. If the paladin guild found out you were also a dark knight, they should give you **** for it.

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I was comparing hats for example, people wearing hats is irrelavent, and illogical to compare, not to mention the fact that you sit here and make prejudious assumption about the people that wear hats. Now like I said previously, they are both a sword and board tank class. Just like both of the afor mentioned were hats. You want to change that from the objects to the people behind them, which makes no sense. By that same definition you created, your prejudging the players based on there classes, as well as stateing that players that play paladins and players that play dark knights are fundimentaly different people. You base this information on what?

Secondly you claiming the paladin guild would do what? The conjurers guild seems to have no problem with the fact that I am a thm also. Where did you find this lore?

This is a game based on not only the ability to level various classes, but it promotes it. So your telling us, because in your mind, some classes are not similar, we are not aloud to be related or shared ?

Cry me a river. Paladins and dark knights don't share guilds in Final Fantasies. The miner's guild did give me crap for being in the alchemist guild, as they should.

No one cares about these generic trash MMO jobs. That's why they're being fundamentally changed. No one cares about marauder lore when they could have dark knight, corsair, etc.

Just no one cares. Classes are just weapons. The concept failed. The game should be about the jobs.

If you want 7 more years of pugilist lore go play another MMO. We play monks here.

I don't give a **** about pugilists, marauders, conjurers, thaumaturges. They never actually belonged in this game and were a mistake. Now they're fixing it as best they can without purely starting over.

They can continue by now focussing on job lore. Class lore...eh just wrap it up with a 40 and 50 quest, put in some weaponskill and ability quests, and then pretend they never happened.

Huh??
Talk out your backside much?

I can see from this and some of the other threads you posted on, that you have a strong tendancy to see your way as fact, and claim your own disillisions as fact. You don't know what we do here, and apperently you have difficulty grasping the concept that this is not FFXI-2 .................its a shame, you almost presented logic in your argument for a fruitfull discussion untill you went of the tracts of truth and logic a few post back.

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Originally Posted by Coglin

Huh??
Talk out your backside much?

I can see from this and some of the other threads you posted on, that you have a strong tendancy to see your way as fact, and claim your own disillisions as fact. You don't know what we do here, and apperently you have difficulty grasping the concept that this is not FFXI-2 .................its a shame, you almost presented logic in your argument for a fruitfull discussion untill you went of the tracts of truth and logic a few post back.

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Yeah, and check how many people like my side as fact.
I, and most other people who matter to this game, do not give a **** about Woodwailers.
I'm sorry if you do. That non-FF lore for non-FF jobs should have never existed.

I know what you do is like a generic game that isn't a Final Fantasy apparently.

This isn't FFXI-2, but this isn't the piece of garbage it was aiming to be in September either.

Dark knight guild. Paladin guild. Add them. Story lines for each. Do it. Yesterday.
Marauder, who gives a ****. You're a pirate with an alcoholic captain and an axe. Good for you.

Necromancer from ff5. White mage cures would do damage to the Necro. Give necro some form of dark heals.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Yeah, and check how many people like my side as fact.
I, and most other people who matter to this game, do not give a **** about Woodwailers.
I'm sorry if you do. That non-FF lore for non-FF jobs should have never existed.

I know what you do is like a generic game that isn't a Final Fantasy apparently.

This isn't FFXI-2, but this isn't the piece of garbage it was aiming to be in September either.

Dark knight guild. Paladin guild. Add them. Story lines for each. Do it. Yesterday.
Marauder, who gives a ****. You're a pirate with an alcoholic captain and an axe. Good for you.

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Umm, I have checked, most people make comments about how you ruined your credibility, by doing exactly as you have here, and on each particular thread, they comment how they see you all over the board acting the same way. There are times I can make mistakes, I may make errors, I may be wrong. Unlike you though, I will never lie as you have, fabricate misinformation, or claim the devs meant to do this, or will do that. Perhaps you should pay a little more attention my friend.

Zavier, I see where you are comming from. To me it sems like an advanced life tap (heals you, damages mob) would be good for that.

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Originally Posted by Coglin

Umm, I have checked, most people make comments about how you ruined your credibility, by doing exactly as you have here, and on each particular thread, they comment how they see you all over the board acting the same way.

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Nailed it in one. Almost every time I check other job forums to see what people are a buzz about and theory crafting over theres Peregrine spouting his BS and other sanctimonious nut-job post.

Wow, people getting emotional again... Can you take it outside, ladies? I'm going back on topic.

So a thought about Taumaturge>White Mage being plausible comes to mind.

The Thaumaturges we play as are part of the Arzanaeth Ossuary, worshipers of Thal's aspect and the realm of the dead. We're talking dark arts and all that sacrificial stuff here. Dark Knight & Necro stuff. Grrrr!

Meanwhile, there is the Milvaneth Sacrarium, worshipers of Nald and the realm of the living. Why do all that sacrificial stuff when you want to live comfortably? A white mage would probably find a place inside the Sacrarium much easier and if Squeenix wanted to make White Mage spring off from Thaumaturge, the wealthy Milvaneth Thaumaturges could be a place within the game's lore to do it.

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Umm, I have checked, most people make comments about how you ruined your credibility, by doing exactly as you have here, and on each particular thread, they comment how they see you all over the board acting the same way.

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Pretty much that. Peregrine gets the illusion people agree because her unmannered barking draws a lot of attention. The majority being negative, but since there's no rate down button only the few rate ups are visible.

For once, though, I have to agree. The classes in game lack the flavor I expected from, e.g. playing a Paladin or a White Mage. Hopefully that will fundamentally change with the upcoming patch(es).