Summoner Responsibilities and Spell Rotations

Only because there doesn't seem to be a thread on it yet.

First a few pointers and explanations:

Swiftcast. This is a level 26 THM job ability that you can crossclass, and it is an absolutely essential tool. Someone on Alla pointed it out to me the day the game launched, and I putzed around leveling my THM up to get it (I hated THM). I wasn't sure it was going to be worth the effort until the first time I used it. Let me be clear: Swiftcast is BROKENLY powerful on a SMN. It is an instant ability that makes the next spell you cast an instant cast, for those who don't already know. You can instant cast a summon. How might that be useful?

You're in a boss fight and the tank just went down. Swiftcast > Titan/Topaz.
You're soloing and your pet is about to die and your MP is low. Cheaper to replace him than heal him up.
You're in a fight and need to switch to a ranged pet. Swiftcast Garuda/Emerald.
Your party just got mobbed by unexpected adds. Swiftcast Tri-Disaster and move away.
You had to pause your damage rotation to help heal and need to get caught up. Swiftcast Shadow Flare.
and the best use of all: Swiftcast Resurrect to get a downed party member back on their feet instantly.

Swiftcast is OP as hell and has never left my hotbar once I got it. It is that good. I've met other SMNs and even SCHs who don't have it (instantly replace a dead Fairy), and I die a little on the inside. Please go get it. THM is mind-numbing sucky until level 15, and you will die a billion times. I hated it. But it was extremely worth it.
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Raging Strikes is a level 4 Archer ability that gives you a flat 20% damage increase on all actions for a few seconds. It is short duration and has a long cooldown time, but is also EXTREMELY powerful against bosses because the damage increase also affects our DOTs. So Bio, Bio II, Miasma, and Thunder EACH do 20% more damage over their duration. That's a hell of a lot of extra damage. Only the long cooldown on Raging Strikes makes it less useful on normal mobs. For a job that is all about being a damage dealer, Raging Strikes is essential.

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Thunder I is a low level BLM spell that you will pick up on the way to getting Swiftcast. SMNs primary damage is from DOTs, and this is an extra DOT that you can apply with similar cooldown and potency to your innate DOTs. File getting this spell under "Duh." Do note however, that Thunder DOT damage is not extended by Contagion and does not enhance Fester, nor is it spread by Bane. If you're trying to nuke an add or something similar with Fester, it is wiser to leave Thunder out of your rotation and just get the essential spells up. It IS enhanced by Raging Strikes, so do make sure to apply it on bosses!

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Now that we've covered the basics, lets look at some things about SMN.

Summons Themselves:

Your Summon's stats are directly linked to your own character stats by a modifier. If you buff your STR, your pets gain STR. If you buff your VIT, your pets gain HP. If you buff your INT, Emerald/Garuda's spells hit harder. Stat allocation for SMN isn't as cut and dry as it is for other DDs, and different builds are possible. Where many choose to max out their INT and rely on Garuda, I personally chose (initially) an even split of STR/VIT/INT. The former two greatly enhance Titan's ability to tank and co-tank, which can be enormously handy in the parties I run. More VIT also makes my character a little less squishy herself, which has certainly proven useful. If you aren't into experimenting, then by all means stick with Garuda and the straight INT build - it is proven and effective.

For much of the game you will spend your time casting DOTs and Ruin, and allowing your pet to do their own things. As the game goes on (around level 40 in my case) you will find it HIGHLY advantageous to start using Emerald Carby/Garudas Shining Emerald/Contagion move under your own control. To do this, you need to seize control of the Pet Hotbar. Make a note of the ability positions on it and create a new hotbar with the same functions from your ability menu, then go into your Character options and turn the Pet Hotbar off. You now have a pet command hotbar that you can control.

Your key moves will now be Spur (increases pet attack and defense), Obey (as opposed to the more common Sic) and Shining Emerald / Contagion. Obey will prevent the pet from using SE/Contagion on their own, meaning you can always apply it after all of your DOTs are on the target, instead of the haphazard timing the pet's AI likes to do. This can boost your total damage output by 20-30%, especially on bosses.

Rotations:

Now that we've illustrated some skills and key abilities, lets look at how to use them. My favorite rotations are listed below.

For single normal mobs: [Aetherflow] [Spur] + Bio II > Miasma > Thunder > Bio > Fester > Ruin > Ruin > Fester

For groups of adds on a normal mob (dungeon pulls) work in Bane, which spreads Bio II, Bio, and Miasma to all mobs near the target: [Aetherflow] + Bio II > Miasma > Bio > Contagion > Bane > Fester > Ruin > Ruin > Fester. Feel free to start this rotation with Shadow Flare for extra lulz.

For bosses: [Aetherflow] [Raging Strikes] [Spur] + Bio II > Miasma > Thunder > Bio > Fester > Contagion > Ruin > Ruin > Fester [Repeat]

For an add you need to burn down fast (Ruin II is chosen over Ruin because if you're burning adds you're probably at a boss and thus, need to be moving if you're not locked on it): [Aetherflow] [Spur] [Raging Strikes] [Swiftcast] + Shadow Flare > Bio II > Miasma > Bio > Fester > Contagion > Ruin II > Ruin II > Fester > Ruin II > Ruin II > Fester

Also, Enkindle should be saved for bosses and minibosses in my opinion. The cooldown is too long to waste on ordinary mobs.

I need to get my Swiftcast but i'm tooooooooo lazy do grind my THM (21 atm) to 26 but i know that this is a MUST HAVE spell.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Darksword

Also, Enkindle should be saved for bosses and minibosses in my opinion. The cooldown is too long to waste on ordinary mobs.

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I use Enkindle a lot on mobs because i know when it'll be up again.

you did forget one really important skill:

- Quelling Strikes archer level 34.

do damage is good, make sure the monster don't attack you is better!

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You're in a fight and need to switch to a ranged pet. Swiftcast Garuda/Emerald.

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Why did you have the wrong pet out in the first place?

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Originally Posted by PessimiStick

Why did you have the wrong pet out in the first place?

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There is no "wrong pet." Only "circumstance dependent best pet." If I'm tanking an add with Titan one minute, the other DD kills the add and my attention is going back to the boss, I don't need to be sic-ing Titan on it now do I? Garuda would be the best option, and Swiftcast makes the changeup painless.

Edit: A perfect example being the second Brayflox boss. Topaz/Titan is the ideal choice for tanking the Biast and letting the party focus on a fast kill.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PessimiStick

Why did you have the wrong pet out in the first place?

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if you don't have an bard in the team, ifrit can deal more damage than Garuda and it enkindle is far stronger.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

if you don't have an bard in the team, ifrit can deal more damage than Garuda and it enkindle is far stronger.

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I find Ifrit pretty useless for everything. I even tried a max-STR build test to see if I could get his damage up to a usefully improved level. It wasn't significant enough. Garuda trounces him in every way if you factor in the extra damage from Contagion. A pity since he looks cool.

Edit: I don't like pie in the sky wishing from SE, but what would fix Ifrit would be an AOE attack buff for nearby party members in place of Radiant Shield. Contagion adds so much damage that Ifrit is useless as a DD pet unless he has something that can compete, and as a melee attacker a buff for the melee DD and tank (and himself) would seem to be ideal. In XI, the Ifrit avatar had an analog of the WARs Warcry AOE attack buff. That needs to make a return.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

if you don't have an bard in the team, ifrit can deal more damage than Garuda and it enkindle is far stronger.

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Keeve's parses indicate otherwise. Garuda was strictly superior in damage, and got farther ahead as gear increased. Add Foe Req. and it's a squash match.

the damage of both are the same, simply:

ifrit = auto attack + one skill
garuda = one spell

both hit for the same, but ifrit can't be silence and gain a bit of speed on each attack.
the AoE attack of ifrit hit harder too and can be cumuled with an auto-attack.

for Enkindle ifrit one leave a pretty nasty DoT on all the target it, when garuda is a Direct Damage.

the main trouble of ifrit, it's that he need a more important micro management than garuda.

about contagion, simply reduce the mana consumption and allows to spam a bit more ruin. without forget it's usefull only every 60second.

Thunder can be extended by contagion.

every dot you place are extended by contagion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

the damage of both are the same, simply:

ifrit = auto attack + one skill
garuda = one spell

both hit for the same, but ifrit can't be silence and gain a bit of speed on each attack.
the AoE attack of ifrit hit harder too and can be cumuled with an auto-attack.

for Enkindle ifrit one leave a pretty nasty DoT on all the target it, when garuda is a Direct Damage.

the main trouble of ifrit, it's that he need a more important micro management than garuda.

about contagion, simply reduce the mana consumption and allows to spam a bit more ruin. without forget it's usefull only every 60second.

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No.

Ifrit is weaker.

His AoE is weaker.

His damage isn't increased by Foe Req.

And he doesn't have Contagion.


Don't use Ifrit, ever.

before begin, i have test what i say, i don't simply go around read the forum.

and like i have said, maybe you have miss it, if your group don't have a bard (means no foe req.) get ifrit, he will deal more damage.

now let see some point.
garuda-egi:
- windblade: potency 100
- aerial slash: potency 90 in AoE

ifrit-egi:
- burning strike: potency 120
- flaming crush: potency 105 in AoE (this one is true, deal less damage than the counter part of garuda-egi)

other point in favor of ifrit, he do have an auto attack at 2.5sec, all it skill are instant.

other point pretty important, the enkindle, the damage of the one of ifrit become insane, where i get 1000 critical with garuda per target, i will get 700 with ifrit + 120-150 of damage every 3 sec for 15 second.
let's be kind 700+(120x5) = 1300 damage, per target.

like have said, without a bard, ifrit is more interesting, but ask more micro management, garuda is way simplier at use, the only complicate thing it's use contagion every 60 second.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

before begin, i have test what i say, i don't simply go around read the forum.

and like i have said, maybe you have miss it, if your group don't have a bard (means no foe req.) get ifrit, he will deal more damage.

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You haven't tested it.

You're just looking at the potency.

I HAVE tested.

Here, have some real data:

http://i.imgur.com/KncsHRD.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KncsHRD.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/eSN0wrF.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/eSN0wrF.jpg


Ifrit does less damage than Garuda, period.

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Originally Posted by Kevee

You haven't tested it.

You're just looking at the potency.

I HAVE tested.

Here, have some real data:

http://i.imgur.com/KncsHRD.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KncsHRD.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/eSN0wrF.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/eSN0wrF.jpg


Ifrit does less damage than Garuda, period.

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Well today i was doing a couple of titan runs and there was me and another SMN there, me with garuda, and the other with Ifrit.
A member of my ls was there and he was running a parser (i cant test myself because i play on ps3) and he was saying that ifrit was parsing more dps then garuda.
So, keeve could you do the same test on real targets instead of dummie, maybe theres something diferent that can influence the results. (unless the test you did was already in real targets, your image shows dummie so im assuming you did on them).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beliel

A member of my ls was there and he was running a parser (i cant test myself because i play on ps3) and he was saying that ifrit was parsing more dps then garuda.
So, keeve could you do the same test on real targets instead of dummie, maybe theres something diferent that can influence the results. (unless the test you did was already in real targets, your image shows dummie so im assuming you did on them).

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There is no reason at all to test on "live" targets.

Garuda does more on dummy, it will do more in every scenario on a live target.
It's ranged, Landslide doesn't effect it as much as Ifrit. It will have more up-time on Titan(when he jumps), and less micro management(needing to move Ifrit out of cleave). Garuda is also better at taking out Gaols/prisons because it will not need to move. Not to mention Ifrit doesn't have contagion, and Foe Req doesn't work for Ifrit so that's even less of a reason to use it.

The difference was probably due to a gear discrepancy.

I was the one with better gear.
But then again im not talking about contagion (since that aftects smn dps not pet) i was talking about the pet alone.
About micro management. He gets healed by medica so, i dont think there´s a need to move him out of cleaves. (i tested the fight with him to see how it goes, i didnt had to do anything and he kept alive all the time, getting healed by medica and succor)
Im not saying that he is better then garuda, which i think its not, just for the fact garuda have better survability, contagion, but i just found it was weird he dealing more dps then garuda when everyone was saying the oposite. And since everyone was testing on dummies, maybe on real targets other variables would come into place.

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Originally Posted by Beliel

i dont think there´s a need to move him out of cleaves.

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Cleaves do full damage to our pets and would insta-kill him. Is he staying in front, with the tank, after the jump?

Maybe Titan has no true cleave, then.

Guess i had lucky on my tries with him in that fight then.

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Originally Posted by Beliel

Guess i had lucky on my tries with him in that fight then.

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Did you move ifrit to attack Gaols, or no?

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Originally Posted by Kevee

Did you move ifrit to attack Gaols, or no?

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With the group i was doing i didnt need it to, because the dps was good, and gaols were being melted fast.
By the time iffrit was there the gaol was already destroyed. So he sticked with titan all the time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beliel

With the group i was doing i didnt need it to, because the dps was good, and gaols were being melted fast.
By the time iffrit was there the gaol was already destroyed. So he sticked with titan all the time.

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Well then there's your answer.

Could you develop that a litle more? :P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beliel

Could you develop that a litle more? :P

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Ifrit not attacking Gaols + Garuda Attacking Gaols = Ifrit will have more DPS for Titan, not for the entire fight.

Ifrit is useless.
You'd need to constantly move it depending on the mechanics being used and you'd be missing out on something which increases your DPS by a lot: Contagion from Garuda.

Also Foe's Requiem affects Garuda-Egi (magic dmg) but not Ifrit-Egi (physical dmg).

Garuda being ranged also needs very little movement or placement - for Titan HM, mine is usually far off the platform like a boss and still throwing attacks at Titan. For Twintania it'd be a pain to have it move back and forth between TT and Conflag - Garuda can just be target-swapped instantly without DPS loss, and we use Garuda for the Fireball meteor thing - which would be really annoying to attempt with Ifrit.

and Titan-Egi is useless.

ok, im going to explain again, i might have misundesrtood you.

So, i was the SMN with better gear, and with garuda out.
The other smn had ifrit out.
Then the message came. " Beliel...the ifrit pet is doing more dps then garuda pet"
Me: "really?"

I think the diference was for like 10 or so. nothing much

I then tested how ifrit would do in that fight since i never used him there. (gameplay wise).

Since i play on ps3 i cant test it myself, so thats why i was asking you.
Maybe i should test it when we raid or something, try with one and then another and ask them whats the score.

Some things:

Shadow Flare dmg is not increased by Raging Strikes at all.

Shadow Flare has at least 95% crit chance or so. I had it crit 28 times in a row during testing.

Shadow Flare is completely ignored by parsers. Rest seems all right to me.

With Darklight everything, AK ring, and Relic +1, I parsed this during the initial 100 second burst phase on a dummy, Raging Strikes wasn't used, Enkindle wasn't used, Rouse was used twice and Spur once:
http://i.imgur.com/I1XZnuP.jpg

It ignores 2 and 8/10 Shadow Flares, around 80 per tick average. Hence we add 2240 DPS to Summoner, bringing it up to 16731 dmg dealt and ~167 DPS, with pet ~234 DPS.

Note that I had terrible luck with crits in this parse so you can add a bit of DPS to this to get the average. I can post the rotation if requested.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Darksword

Your Summon's stats are directly linked to your own character stats by a modifier. If you buff your STR, your pets gain STR. If you buff your INT, Emerald/Garuda's and Ifrit's spells hit harder. S

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You have a source for a pet gaining Str based on your Str? As far as I can tell and have tested Int and Vit are the only primary stats that affect them (unless someone's done some pet parry testing or something).

Use Garuda in Titan. Period end of story. Get her lined up so she gets thrown off the side so you never have to worry about her getting hit by Weight of the Land. (She doesn't fall off by the way SHE CAN FLY. Really kinda cool that SE thought about that.) Ifiit was doing more damage? I simply don't believe it unless it got crazy lucky to never get hit by landslide and get pushed back and have to run back thus killings its DPS for that amount of time. Something was definitelly wanky in your Titan fight if an Ifrit was doing more than your Garuda.

people tend to forget the auto attack from ifrit, 2.5 sec, the skill have a 3 sec of gcd. on 15 sec you will get 6 auto attack for 5 skill, and as time pass this difference increase. it where come the difference, without requiem foe, ifrit on long fight will deal a bit more of damage. and it enkindle will deal more damage too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

people tend to forget the auto attack from ifrit, 2.5 sec, the skill have a 3 sec of gcd. on 15 sec you will get 6 auto attack for 5 skill, and as time pass this difference increase. it where come the difference, without requiem foe, ifrit on long fight will deal a bit more of damage. and it enkindle will deal more damage too.

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Except he doesn't. Please look at the parses Keeve has posted which show that you are wrong.

It's easy to test. Get a bunch of STR+ accessories, sic Ifrit on a target dummy using Obey, and compare average damage per hit with and without the STR gear. Make sure you resummon him after changing equipment though.

He doesn't gain damage for STR the way he does HP from VIT though. It has a smaller modifier, I think.

And I didn't mean to imply that RS buffed Shadow Flare. It was more just GP for the other DOTs that followed it.

I thank everyone for the contribution so far. Even I learned something!

PS your opening rotation is wrong.

If you delay fester until after thunder->Bio, you will most likely (barring high SSpeed and lack of lag) be running out of RS or very very close to it when you do your second fester.

For example, in your rotation you have your fester only 2 GCDs after the last fester (and also, on GCD, rather than offGCD, which is a big nono, esp during RS).

Your boss rotation also doesn't include miasma II (still sucks, Kevee!) and Shadowflare (swiftcast shadowflare, which decidedly does NOT suck).

Also there have been many, many threads on this already >.>

Though I like your rundown of our utility, you completely forget Eye for an Eye and Virus.

question:

if ruin II had 101-106 potency instead of 80, will it be better to use ruin II instead of ruin I?

because if you include book attacks + instant cast spell = it does more damage than ruin I.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by glim

question:

if ruin II had 101-106 potency instead of 80, will it be better to use ruin II instead of ruin I?

because if you include book attacks + instant cast spell = it does more damage than ruin I.

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The mana drain is just too severe.

SMN already run out of mana primarily because of Thunder being incredibly inefficient, and Ruin II being twice the cost of Ruin is pretty awful.

My SMN is currently 36, but maybe Ruin II would be good to use for big TP moves that you know are coming like Mountain Buster(to of course help the tank take less damage). Just a thought, otherwise it seems kind of inefficient.

Hi everyone! I'm new on this board. I still don't understand the difference bet. 1 stack and 2 stacks of aetherflow. Does stack 2 increase the damage and duration of bane and fester?;)

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Originally Posted by Super_Pollo

Hi everyone! I'm new on this board. I still don't understand the difference bet. 1 stack and 2 stacks of aetherflow. Does stack 2 increase the damage and duration of bane and fester?;)

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No, you can think of them as "ammo" for fester/bane.

Each use of bane/fester/energy drain requires at least 1 stack to be active, and consumes 1.

So every time you use Aetherflow, it "reloads" the amount of times you can use those abilities.